Incapacity Benefit: DWP appealing the tribunal's decision?

[MelissaTeddyBear]

Hello ee-bee.

The countdown is now in single figures. If the DWP do not lodge an appeal within the next 9 days then they will be out of time. Soon be drafting letters to DLA customer services manager, my MP and Gordon Brown. If you send a complaint letter to 10, Downing Street or the Queen it does not get put in the rubbish bin but becomes a complaint of high level importance with strict time limits for it to be resolved.

 

MelissaTeddyBear.

[ee-bee]

hi,isnt it awful when your living your life by waiting for the post to arrive everyday!hoping the postman will bring some good news for a change,someone has mentioned somewhere that the dwp are asking for statement of reasons more and more now,do you think thats because of the amount of people winning their appeals or perhaps its some sort of delay tactic?,did you have a representative with you for your appeal,and what is the correct procedure if we dont hear off them within the month,and just to confirm,my month is up on the 4th dec,does that mean they can apply for appeal on the 3rd and then notify me,so i prob wouldnt know till 7th-8th

Edited November 23, 2009 by ee-bee
added more questions

[Guest]

MelissaTeddyBear i am so tempted after reading what you said i feel like sending my appeal statement and evidence to Gordon Brown lol can u imagine?

[ee-bee]

well thats another day of waiting ,still no news,how about you melissa teddybear

[Guest]

ee-bee its so wrong that this happens, if they had an actual legal ground to stand on wouldnt it be notified with their request of appeal? rather than a month hanging around which will prob on the face of it just come to nothing and yet another waste of time by the dwp

[Guest]

its either legal for you to claim the benefit or its not, surely thats what the tribunal was there for? or am i missing something here? if your unfit to work and have provided enough evidence for the tribunal, and i am sure they are aware of the law? or why would they be sitting on the damn tribunal in the first place? it beggars belief.

[ee-bee]

as much as i agree that evidence should be enough proof.unfortunatly it isnt ,and from what i`v learned what there doing is quite above board whether i like it or not,god its so frustrating

[MelissaTeddyBear]

Hello ee-bee

No post today.

I'm not sure about whether or not the DWP are asking for more Statement of Reasons but Mr TeddyBear was a DWP appeal writer who retired 3 years ago. Wrote JSA and IS appeals and sometimes wrote IB PCA appeals. He does not think they would ask for a Statement of Reasons as a delaying tactic. From memory for IB to be awarded 15 points need to be scored. If a medical advisor chooses descriptors that gave say 10 or 12 points and the tribunal awarded 15 or more then the DM or appeal writer would not probably think twice but where there is a large difference in the points they would probably just want to check it out. If an appeal is allowed the Tribunal Service send notification to the DWP stating appeal allowed and one or two lines of explanation if that. Not much to go on.

 

With Mr TeddyBear understanding how the DWP works I did not need a rep but if it went to the Upper Tier Tribunal I would get someone expert in DLA as a rep.

 

The DWP in your case could send an appeal off on 3rd of Dec and it would be in time if it was stamped in at the Tribunal Service on 4th Dec. There could be a short delay in getting notification to you.

Basically if the DWP do not submit the appeal within the month then they do not have grounds to withold payment so you should contact them immediately.

When Mr T worked for the DWP the next stage was Commissioners not Upper Tier Tribunals. But he contacted the Tribunal Service a couple of weeks ago and they said appeals after Statements of Reasons are still pretty rare. Each case is different but probably everyhing will work out okay for you.

[ErikaPNP]

Just for clarification - Social Security Commissioners who transferred in are now Judges of the Upper Tribunal. In the Upper Tribunal, cases are usually decided by a judge sitting alone, although sometimes they will have legally qualified "members" sitting in with them. Both members and Judges have to take the oath.

 

They are specialists in the areas of law they handle, and the process for making decisions hasn't changed as it is still the point of law that is considered in an Upper Tier Tribunal - just a new name more or less. Same as within DWP Adjuication Officers changed to decision makers. Decision Makers Changed to Administritive Officers/Executive Officers. This then changed to Benefit Delivery officers/experts. Give it a few years, they'll be called something else!!

[MelissaTeddyBear]

Hello Ruby Tuesday,

The setting 10 Downing Street. Cabinet members round the table.

Gordon speaking - Right GDP has increased by 1.4% therefore spending on quantative easing can be decreased by 5% in the fourth fiscal quarter. If we are all agreed on that let us now move on to look at Ruby Tuesdays appeal statement and evidence. Does anyone have a clue about this. Chorus of No Gordon arises.

 

A letter thus should suffice.

 

Dear Gordon,

My name is Mrs TeddyBear, I live in Teddy Town and my national insurance number is TB000000A.

I claimed DLA in March 2009 and it is now December 2009 and I aint got nuffink yet. It is a disgrace Gordon. nine months and no money yet. You got to be jokin me Gordon. Someone is avin a laugh.

 

Such a letter would not reach no 10 but it would be referred to the appropriate office from London and treated as a high level complaint. Mr TeddyBear has had to deal with such matters in the past.

Its a funny old world. They say its a small world but I would not want to have to paint it. I went on a round the world holiday this year. I'm not sure where to go next year.

[Guest]

MelissaTeddyBear, i just had to lol at that.

[Guest]

i can see me maybe having all this then as i got scored 1 point on one sheet and then 0 on the others, having scored 15 in both past atos reports, i have heard that the dwp dont always send someone to attend on their behalf? it seems odd to me.

[ErikaPNP]

It's better when they don't send someone - then they can't put their argument across.

[Guest]

will i not know until i get there if the dwp will have someone attending?

[ee-bee]

no one from the dwp attended my tribunal, and i didnt know who was on the panel/bench(or whatever you call it)till the day.quite honestly if i felt well enough i would start a petition about the atos medical and send that to downing street but i feel so down about the whole thing,i`v got no fight left in me,never mind soon be christmas,x

[Guest]

there was a petition that a member from here put on the 10 downing street website to request recording of the atos tests, some of us signed that online, i havent heard anything more from it, but a petition direct to number 10 would be good, we really need some public attention for this but its no good just one person doing it, it needs a real kick off ( legally and not in a riotous way of course lol) i would be prepared to be in there but its getting proper back up from others to help fight our corner.

[ee-bee]

yeah i agree, even if/when mine finally gets sorted i would back a petition,

[MelissaTeddyBear]

Hello,

 

With regards to Presenting Officers attending appeal tribunal hearings they rarely attend. Certainly the Tribunal Sevice want PO's to attend more often. There have been cases where Judges have directed a PO to attend a hearing and they have not turned up and the Judge has thrown out the DWP case saying that the burden of proof has not been discharged by the DWP. A PO tends to appear where new law is introduced or large sums of money are involved.

 

There is a list of cases where it would be appropriate for a PO at attend but attendance is not compulsory. Sometimes Tribunal venues can be several miles away from where the PO is located. If the PO did not write the appeal submission and it is very complex then days can be spent previewing it. I'm not saying it's right but some managers decide that they would rather have the appeal writers writing appeals and meeting targets rather than presenting cases.

 

Mr TeddyBear was happy to leave the world of appeals behind. He knew how to write an appeal submission answering the points raised by the person appealing. He knew the Commissioner's decisions that were relevant but that type of submission takes to long and is no good for targets. The DLA submission I got was open up the template fill in the name and address and Bob's your uncle! I sometimes wonder if the DM asked for a Statement of Reasons because Mr T did a dissection of the appeal submission.

[Guest]

It must be a comfort having MR T's knowledge, its a minefield, all i have done is submit a statement covering how my illness affects me and why i feel unable to work, and stated the problems i had with the dwp in getting the right info and the unnecessary runaround i was given (providing proof) and my evidence of past reports from atos claiming me unfit, present up to date letters (unfortunately not obtained before it went to the tribunal service, due to times waiting for consultants letters etc) but were sent both separately and with copies attached to my statement, and of course my grievance on how the atos test was conducted by a person deemed by atos to be qualified to do so but who didnt recognise that anxiety disorder and depression are any form of mental illness and that the treatment i was receiving for both wasnt treatment for any kind of mental illness, my comments on waiting for referral for further diagnosis went ignored and not reported, dont think theres much else i can really do now but sit and wait, its a shame the letters from my psychiatrist and CPN didnt get in before it was sent to the tribunal as am sure that would have helped, along with past atos report of (in their persons view) of severe mental illness ( in hindsight i must have been in a bipolar mania episode that day, which was what he had witnessed, poor man lol its not a pleasant experience). so i guess its just sit and wait now til january as the tribunals service advise thats when i will most likely get a hearing.

[ee-bee]

well another day ,no news,how about you melissa teddybear,how many days you got left now

[MelissaTeddyBear]

Hello Ruby Tuesday.

You mention about further evidence and state that it could not be sent in your appeal papers but your hearing is not until January. You can send in the further evidence now for the appeal tribunal to consider. Some people even turn up on the day of an oral hearing with lots of new evidence but this would be frowned upon by the Judge as they preview the cases prior to the hearing. If the hearing is before a first tier tribunal there is nothing to prevent you providing further evidence.

[MelissaTeddyBear]

Hello ee-bee

No post here either. The DWP now have a week today in which to get an appeal in. I will probably contact Tribunal Service 2 days after then and if no appeal has been lodged my letters will go out.

[RaeUK]

Thanks Melissa, I was about to say the same thing to Ruby. As my Tribunal is not before 01/03/10, I've arranged a spirometry test and meeting with my GP for the New Year in order to have the most up to date info to send off mid-January...

[Guest]

i did send the new evidence off to the tribunal, i sent copies of the letters with my statement and the original letters were sent direct from the consultant psychiatrist and cpn, i got a letter from the clerk to tribunal saying that copies of all of it had been sent to dwp so they will also have the new letters, guess its just the wait now for the hearing, "just" lol

[RaeUK]

Thanks for clarifying, Ruby and good luck!