Claim Stayed – Due to Unenforceable CCA Test Cases.

[paulwlton]

Paul. It strikes me that in your case they did not even use banking records they just made it all up.

 

They did use banking records but these were incorrect.

 

RBS exec Richard Hemsley admitted at the Commons meeting that the banks automated recovery system had to be set up (prior to 2000) using interest terms contrary to the defaulting customers original terms. This was admitted when the question was put forward by my MP "why would the bank apply interest to a customers recovery account if there was never any intention to collect it or the contractual authority to apply it" ?.....It was then further admitted that there could be others.

 

I will post a letter my MP sent me from another victim shortly.

 

Sorry if i'm going over old ground but it's important.

 

Paul

Edited December 15, 2009 by paulwlton

[johnerog]

PW and JS and all.

 

It is a sad fact that your two cases show that even respected bank officials will act no better than simple conmen if their need arrises. I suspect that both individuals were covering their own backs regardless of the consequences to other people. I also suspect that their employers supported them to the hilt in fear of the domino effect.

Niether of you are are covering old ground, you are reminding us that long respected financial institutions are run by human beings subject to the same frailties and imperfections of us all. The only difference is they have the use of the banks money and power to cover their mistakes, we just have to pay their consequences as well as our own.

 

Here endeth the sermon.......... I can go on sometimes.

[paulwlton]

Is it acceptable for RBS/Natwest to recreate an agreement in order to satisfy

a CCA request?

 

I suggested that they make a CCA request but the couple or so vunerable and frightened they dare not.

 

 

[johnerog]

Is it acceptable for RBS/Natwest to recreate an agreement in order to satisfy

a CCA request?

 

I suggested that they make a CCA request but the couple or so vunerable and frightened they dare not.

 

 

Merry christmas to the person responsible. I'm speechless. Well done Paul for publicising this. Whats John Healey doing about it?

[Ruprecht]

I have been reading the recent posts with interest.

 

Poor Mr Ruinedbynatwest, you have taken the red pill and seen how deep the rabbit-hole really goes!

 

Ever got the feeling you are trying to win in a casino that is rigged?

 

I am starting to think that the fact that these cases are out of the County Court where they belong can only mean something wicked this way comes!

 

The CCA 1974 is an Act of Parliament, signed into law by Her Majesty the Queen.

 

Open defiance of Her Majesty's command is TREASON and isn't this still a capital offence? Maybe someone should bring this to the attention of the High Court Judges.

 

Who do they think they are over-ruling Parliament and our Sovereign????

[johnerog]

Unfortunately, we don't have hanging anymore, not even for arson-about in HM dockyard.

 

European law anyone???

[ruinedbynatwest]

Unfortunately, we don't have hanging anymore, not even for arson-about in HM dockyard.

 

European law anyone???

--------------------------------------

European (consumer credit) Law is itself in the main part disregarded by our courts -when forming Judgment in eg Story, where, as far as I am personally aware the court ignored EU law on at least 2 counts - the first is fundamental on a point of policy - that Money must only be loaned on the borrower's ability to repay and NOT on the strength of any security offered - so we have a major breach of EU policy there, where the debt consolidation industry was very quick to cash in, ie to securitize unsecured regulated agreements where they are refinanced onto a secured footing, following the decision in Story ; previously unsecured debts becoming secured, qualified for "Triple A" status from credit rating agencies, who granted the ratings unaware that Auld LJ acted unlawfully where he defeated Section 8 CCA to favour the credit industry. Section 8 CCA raises a very serious charge against Lord Justice Auld where he has struck the section down to create an appalling problem for the UK where £300 Billions' rest on his unlawful ruling. Maybe this is partly why the government has privatized certain elements of the credit industry - those with a potentially problematical exposure to the problem.

 

 

and the second breach of EU law is "administrative" (for the want of a better term) - re the compatibility and efficacy of S 18 (Multiple Agreements) of the 1974 CCA (Now repealed) as an anti-avoidance measure - regretably it didn't work (because it was NOT given a chance by Lord Justice Auld in eg Story) and the section is itself therefore in breach of EU directives that requires an effective anti-avoidance measure of this kind where the UK failed to take reasonable steps to remedy the problem. So, we have a major breach of EU policy there and at least for the period where the UK failed to address the known controversy that (still) surrounds that particular section-------------

 

Either way, the UK has failed to address culpability on both these counts.

 

HERE WE GO,

(wrong thread but it's pertinent - where it is the common law that is causative of the non compatibility)

 

It is a pity that the common law offended/disrespected Mr Bennion's S 18 in Story because Section 18(1) applies to an agreement "if its terms" are such as to place one part of it into a category of agreement mentioned in the Act and to place another part into a different category of agreement ....."

 

Where 3 existing regulated agreements are identified by the Court, then those existing regulated agreements are undoubtedly placed into a category of agreement mentioned in the Act and the Section applies.

 

Q. Why does the Court REFUSE to say that the 3 existing agreements in Story are regulated agreements ?

 

A. Because £300 Billions of debt consolidation agreements across the UK hang on it - that's why.

 

Ah well, we've tried everything else, so, here goes,

 

"Dear Sanity Clause,

 

All I want for Xmas is a 'sanity clause' "

 

John Story

 

Is there a Sanity Clause ? Discuss !

 

check out:-

www.ruinedbynatwest.com

Edited December 16, 2009 by ruinedbynatwest
typos

[paulwlton]

Seems the banks are trying to sway the Judge with moral rather than legal arguments.

 

 

http://www.prlog.org/10436444-high-court-test-cases-high-court-consumer-financial-claims-begin-in-manchester.pdf

[B3rty]

Carl Wright, Chief Executive of Cartal Client Review said, “Those people involved this week seem to be

of the opinion that the OFT’s request to be included this week is of great importance. My own view is that

HHJ Waksman QC will accept all submissions made during the week and provide a Judgment based on the

correct interpretation of the law.”

 

That would be nice....hard to see how anything other would be acceptable

[Basil Fawlty]

It was observed that, during the first day of preliminary hearings, barristers acting on behalf of consumers,

and the Claims Management Companies (CMCs) fighting their case, focused on specific legal arguments to

support their case. This is in contrast to barristers representing those banks defending their own case on the

first day, who focused primarily on so called moral arguments of whether consumers should in fact be able

to make a claim or not.

Kara Britton, of CCLS, the specialist Financial Claims Solicitors said, “I was disappointed to hear the

representations made by barristers acting for The Royal Bank of Scotland Plc and HSBC, in that the

majority of their arguments dealt with the possible repercussions of HHJ Waksman QC finding in favour of

consumers, instead of whether or not the Consumer Credit Act should be enforced as Parliament intended.

Many in the Court were shocked that the barristers acting on behalf of the banks offered very little in

counter argument against those points put forward on behalf of consumers.”

Surely if this is true, it can only go one way, in favour of the consumer. Or am I being too optimistic?

[Bigdebtor]

The big problem is judges have never had debts they can't repay - and probably never had any unfair charges either - so don't know how Joe Public is actually treated - but many will just suspect we are all a bunch of feckless scroungers.

 

I am surprised the Banks are acquainted with the meaning of the word "moral".

 

BD

[ruinedbynatwest]

Seems the banks are trying to sway the Judge with moral rather than legal arguments.

 

 

http://www.prlog.org/10436444-high-court-test-cases-high-court-consumer-financial-claims-begin-in-manchester.pdf

 

Hi Paul,

thanks for that contact - the banks are rightfully scared because they obtained Consumer Credit Licences, well aware that proper documentation was required as a condition of their ongoing fitness to hold a licence.

 

They can only be seen for what they are, now that they plead for leniency (the moral argument) when they have wilfully determined to thwart the CCA documentational requirements.

 

It's too late for second chances - what the situation now needs is for the Courts to enforce Parliament's clear intention to establish transparency in consumer credit contracts - in other words, to show its teeth which exist because lack of transparency in consumer credit contracts was the main "mischief" identified by Lord Crowther as indicative of mischief on the part of powerful lenders, in the first place.

 

John Story

 

www.ruinedbynatwest.com

Edited December 16, 2009 by ruinedbynatwest
typos

[johnerog]

Can anybody tell me if a case lost in the Supreme Court UK can be appealed to the European Courts; particularly if it regards a breach of European Law?

[ruinedbynatwest]

Can anybody tell me if a case lost in the Supreme Court UK can be appealed to the European Courts; particularly if it regards a breach of European Law?

----------------

Hi John !

 

Only if you can find a senior barrister with the "ba££s" to support you.

Can't be done 'in person' - if it could, I'd be there !

It's not a good career move for a promising bencher, is it ?

 

John Story

 

www.ruinedbynatwest.com

[ruinedbynatwest]

Can anybody tell me if a case lost in the Supreme Court UK can be appealed to the European Courts; particularly if it regards a breach of European Law?

------------------

Software is not helping matters-

Need to enlarge here,

 

Mr Bennion:-

 

Edited December 17, 2009 by ruinedbynatwest
trying to enlarge image - HELP !!!

[Bigdebtor]

If you zoom up it is out of focus. Can you please repost this?

[ruinedbynatwest]

If you zoom up it is out of focus. Can you please repost this?

 

Sorry about that - trying to 'big it up', but page won 't take anything other than a thumbnail - unless it's me !!

Any ideas ?

 

RBN

[Baggio]

Very good news has reached me in the last 30 minutes

 

Two big fingers up at the banks

[saddler68]

Very good news has reached me in the last 30 minutes

 

Two big fingers up at the banks

 

Txt just come through....result:D

[dizzyblonde1966]

come on guys dont tease us

what is it, im in court this week , i already have a very strong case but would love to put the final nail in cohens coffin,and at my last case management hearing the judge mentioned the manchester test cases

[saddler68]

come on guys dont tease us

what is it, im in court this week , i already have a very strong case but would love to put the final nail in cohens coffin,and at my last case management hearing the judge mentioned the manchester test cases

I will know alot more later this evening. I will post what I hear;)

[Baggio]

judgement passed down 10 am Xmas Eve

 

and a big F*** you to the banks who thought they would get away with blagging "reconstituted" agreements

 

the law is black and white and thank the lord it has been applied correctly.

Edited December 21, 2009 by Baggio

[Baggio]

lets see how many guests we got on tonight

[intree]

wow great news - what a relief - can not wait to see the judgement

[exchange]

Like the idea of a non-Christmas present for the banks:D.