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    • Indians, traditionally known as avid savers, are now stashing away less money and borrowing more.View the full article
    • the claimant in their WS can refer to whatever previous CC judgements they like, as we do in our WS's, but CC judgements do not set a legal precedence. however, they do often refer to judgements like Bevis, those cases do created a precedence as they were court of appeal rulings. as for if the defendant, prior to the raising of a claim, dobbed themselves in as the driver in writing during any appeal to the PPC, i don't think we've seen one case whereby the claimant referred to such in their WS.. ?? but they certainly typically include said appeal letters in their exhibits. i certainly dont think it's a good idea to 'remind' them of such at the defence stage, even if the defendant did admit such in a written appeal. i would further go as far to say, that could be even more damaging to the whole case than a judge admonishing a defendant for not appealing to the PPC in the 1st place. it sort of blows the defendant out the water before the judge reads anything else. dx  
    • Hi LFI, Your knowledge in this area is greater than I could possibly hope to have and as such I appreciate your feedback. I'm not sure that I agree the reason why a barrister would say that, only to get new customers, I'm sure he must have had professional experience in this area that qualifies him to make that point. 🙂 In your point 1 you mention: 1] there is a real danger that some part of the appeal will point out that the person appealing [the keeper ] is also the driver. I understand the point you are making but I was referring to when the keeper is also the driver and admits it later and only in this circumstance, but I understand what you are saying. I take on board the issues you raise in point 2. Is it possible that a PPC (claimant) could refer back to the case above as proof that the motorist should have appealed, like they refer back to other cases? Thanks once again for the feedback.
    • Well barristers would say that in the hope that motorists would go to them for advice -obviously paid advice.  The problem with appealing is at least twofold. 1] there is a real danger that some part of the appeal will point out that the person appealing [the keeper ] is also the driver.  And in a lot of cases the last thing the keeper wants when they are also the driver is that the parking company knows that. It makes it so much easier for them as the majority  of Judges do not accept that the keeper and the driver are the same person for obvious reasons. Often they are not the same person especially when it is a family car where the husband, wife and children are all insured to drive the same car. On top of that  just about every person who has a valid insurance policy is able to drive another person's vehicle. So there are many possibilities and it should be up to the parking company to prove it to some extent.  Most parking company's do not accept appeals under virtually any circumstances. But insist that you carry on and appeal to their so called impartial jury who are often anything but impartial. By turning down that second appeal, many motorists pay up because they don't know enough about PoFA to argue with those decisions which brings us to the second problem. 2] the major parking companies are mostly unscrupulous, lying cheating scrotes. So when you appeal and your reasons look as if they would have merit in Court, they then go about  concocting a Witness Statement to debunk that challenge. We feel that by leaving what we think are the strongest arguments to our Member's Witness Statements, it leaves insufficient time to be thwarted with their lies etc. And when the motorists defence is good enough to win, it should win regardless of when it is first produced.   
    • S13 (2)The creditor may not exercise the right under paragraph 4 to recover from the keeper any unpaid parking charges specified in the notice to keeper if, within the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which that notice was given, the creditor is given— (a)a statement signed by or on behalf of the vehicle-hire firm to the effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to a named person under a hire agreement; (b)a copy of the hire agreement; and (c)a copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement. As  Arval has complied with the above they cannot be pursued by EC----- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- S14 [1]   the creditor may recover those charges (so far as they remain unpaid) from the hirer. (2)The conditions are that— (a)the creditor has within the relevant period given the hirer a notice in accordance with sub-paragraph (5) (a “notice to hirer”), together with a copy of the documents mentioned in paragraph 13(2) and the notice to keeper; (b)a period of 21 days beginning with the day on which the notice to hirer was given has elapsed;  As ECP did not send copies of the documents to your company and they have given 28 days instead of 21 days they have failed to comply with  the Act so you and your Company are absolved from paying. That is not to say that they won't continue asking to be paid as they do not have the faintest idea how PoFA works. 
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Court Judgement ordered to pay more than I can


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Hello to all

I need some advice on this. I received a county court order regarding a Capital One Account. I didn't dispute the debt but filled in the admission form and sent a financial statement offering to pay £10 per month for the timebeing (it's a £1,000 debt). I've just had the judgement back and it says the company disputed the amount offered and the judgement is to pay £100 per month. There is no way I can afford this and if I tried I think it would send me under-Do I have any recourse to reduced the payment set bt the court.

as a side question-on my financial statement I've included my husbands earnings even though really this is a personal debt and nothing to do with him really-would it have been better just to have my earnings on it and just halved the outgoings rather than including everything?

I've tried phoning the solicitors and court today but there is noone there. I feel sick with worry about this

Any help would be appreciated

Den

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Hello to all

I need some advice on this. I received a county court order regarding a Capital One Account. I didn't dispute the debt but filled in the admission form and sent a financial statement offering to pay £10 per month for the timebeing (it's a £1,000 debt). I've just had the judgement back and it says the company disputed the amount offered and the judgement is to pay £100 per month. There is no way I can afford this and if I tried I think it would send me under-Do I have any recourse to reduced the payment set bt the court.

as a side question-on my financial statement I've included my husbands earnings even though really this is a personal debt and nothing to do with him really-would it have been better just to have my earnings on it and just halved the outgoings rather than including everything?

I've tried phoning the solicitors and court today but there is noone there. I feel sick with worry about this

Any help would be appreciated

Den

 

Any reason why you don't dispute the debt....is there a valid Original Agreement then?

 

The Judge wouldn't make you pay more than you could afford. I suspect they would have combined the wages, despite it being 'your' debt. The fact that he's your husband means it's got everything to do with him :-(

Just hate every DCA out there

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I have already combined the two wages myself on the Financial Statment. the £10 offer of payment was after combining the two wages and taking the outgoings and debts of and then making a pro rata offer. I haven't put anything unreasonable down just valid living expenses/food/clothes/transport/childcare/cleaning and toiletries-This is why I was surprised at the £100 claim-why would the judge do this when it's plain I can't afford this?

Denise

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Did you attend Court. Unfortunately, if you are not present to be questioned by the judge as to your available income, they can, and often do, take the easy way out and agree with the plaintiffs' request.

 

As asked above, did you not CCA Cap. 1, as this would normally be the first step rather than just admit the debt straight away.

 

You can apply to have the judgement set aside, but once you have admitted the debt, this is very hard.

 

I think you would need to apply to the court for a variation in order for the amount of payment to be re-considered and it would be best if you went to the Court.

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Hi there, you can ask for the amount to be varied by sending in an N245 form. I have affixed one to this post.

 

However, if you don't pay the £100 per month the claimant will ask for a warrant of execution - that means it will be transferred to your local court and they will send you a letter telling you that the warrant has been issued. At this point you can send (or take) the N245 to your local court and have it dealt with there - usually a better idea as Northampton just deal with things robot fashion:rolleyes:. There is a fee of £35.00 for the N245.

 

It's up to you if you want to wait until it's transferred or take your chance with Northampton.

 

Ell-enn

n245_0204.pdf

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I know this is too late for you, but if, as a matter of course you had defended the case it would have automatically been referred to your local Court where it would have been much easier to get help and attend.

 

My sister did exactly as you did, received from Northampton, was very ill, did not defend or admit and it was automatically granted as a 'win' for the plaintiff (DCA). She has since had it varied down to £1 per month so it is worth pursuing.

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CCj's issued at Northampton areuntouched by human hands. It's all automated. It's only when you respond that people get involved. Any defense is automatically transferred to the defendants local court. If someone doesn't defend or doesn't attend what can they expect. It is never too late to put this right but it just goes to show what happens when we let things slip. If we then still choose to let things slip it can get very nasty with bailiffs etc.

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Rather than just leaving it, why not write to Capital One explaining that you can't afford the £100 a month and that you stand by your original statement to the court - including your monthly expenses / income statement. Make it clear you want to make repayments, but you have to be sensible with the level of payments that you agree to and not over commit yourself. Finally, say that if you are unable to reach a new agreement with them you will be left with no choice but to apply for a variation order with the courts, but that you wish to avoid this route if possible.

 

This approach can only help you when you do actually apply for the variation order. Just sitting back and doing nothing won't help, or make you look good in the eyes of the judge.

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Any reason why you don't dispute the debt....is there a valid Original Agreement then?

 

The Judge wouldn't make you pay more than you could afford. I suspect they would have combined the wages, despite it being 'your' debt. The fact that he's your husband means it's got everything to do with him :-(

 

Hi, can you clarify this quote for me please? As far as I know husbands/partners are not liable for their spouses debt and are not legally obliged to offer payment towards them?

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If a judgement has been made then a variation order has to be applied for rather than relying on a letter sent to the claimant.

 

I think it's a grey area on what to include on a financial statement. I've had conflicting advice and the mainstream (CAB and advisory services) seem to say you have to put the household income.

 

I've never held that view and you should only go on what money you have and not what your OH/spouse has or earns. Purely because you have no right to disclose his personal info. without his knowledge and why would he give permission for it to be used when it's your debt?

 

The same applies if one person claims benefits but has a partner living with them. There is nothing to say that an unmarried person should pay anything to another to support them.

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Thanks for all of the advice so far. Obviuosly I've got to do something tomorrow when I can make phone calls. I'm still slightly confused. I don't like the idea of waiting for a warrant but obviously I'd like it transferred to a local court just in case I have to attend. Could I send in the form pay the £35 and also ask for it to be transferred to a local court.

I'm also still no clearer about where the £100 payment came from-did thay just apply for it and it was accepted-what was the arguement considering they had the acknowledgement form and financial statement?

 

I did CCA them but to be honest I didn't know what to do with it and I had problems loading it onto this site.The minute I requested it they started court proceedings so i ran out of time really-hence the acknowledgement. I guess I gave up the fight as I didn't know what to do with it. Feel sick about it now

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Thanks for all of the advice so far. Obviuosly I've got to do something tomorrow when I can make phone calls. I'm still slightly confused. I don't like the idea of waiting for a warrant but obviously I'd like it transferred to a local court just in case I have to attend. Could I send in the form pay the £35 and also ask for it to be transferred to a local court.

I'm also still no clearer about where the £100 payment came from-did thay just apply for it and it was accepted-what was the arguement considering they had the acknowledgement form and financial statement?

 

I did CCA them but to be honest I didn't know what to do with it and I had problems loading it onto this site.The minute I requested it they started court proceedings so i ran out of time really-hence the acknowledgement. I guess I gave up the fight as I didn't know what to do with it. Feel sick about it now

 

That to me certainly suggests they don't hold a valid agreement.

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It won't get transferred unless you don't pay and it gets sent to your local court for a warrant or if you apply for a hearing (costs £75.00).

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It's worth getting a hearing and you may be able to have the costs waived. I had one a few years ago after I offered £5 per month (always offer the mininum you can absolutely maintain in the long term allowing for all circumstances) but they wanted £100+.

 

I turned up at the hearing armed with a income/expenditure statement for myself only and didn't include my partners. The judge accepted that is was reasonable for just my income and household contribution to be looked over and he ruled that payments should be £20 per month, which I expected but was a lot less than the creditor asked for . I did get told off by him for using the SOA from National Debtline as he asked how he was supposed to make sense of it and acted as though he'd never seen a SOA before, which I find hard to believe unless he lives under a rock.

 

Make sure it is your local court as my postcode always leads them to one miles away although there is one a stones throw away from me that has juristiction.

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I quite agree about the income. When applying for a loan several years ago they refused to take my husband's income into account unless we made a joint application. I didn't as I am very independant. Why should they magically then be able to take it into account when it suits them, in court?

Elsa x

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I've just spoken to the court help desk who were very helpful actually. Apparently I can appeal. You have 21 days from the judgement date to write in and appeal the ammount and send in an income/expenditure form agian. I was thinking about sending on a joint one and a single one just so all bases covered but i don't want to confuse the judge. If that then fails then you can still go down the other routes-I'll let everyone know what happens.

Den

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Affixed is the budget sheet we use.

 

If I were you I'd only fill it in with your income as it's not a joint debt.

Budget Sheet.xls

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Please consider making a donation, however small, if you have benefited from advice on the forums

 

 

This site is run solely on donations

 

My advice is based on my opinion and experience only. It is not to be taken as legal advice - if you are unsure you should seek professional help.

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