Invalid Default Notices

[Bigdebtor]

Connaught are 1st crud's inhouse bully boys.

 

BD

[frettful38]

Thanks BD, I had guessed they were, so any ideas on what can be done please?

[InformedSearcher]

Heck I have to say that Vanquis were a bit genrous to allow no payment for almost 8 months before issuing the DN. Your friend must have had so many phone calls and letters - Did she not respond to any of them? You mentioned she was now wanting to make some kind of payment plan but I fear 8 months till considering this does seem an excessive time.

 

The problem is that they'll not remove the DN without a fight even if it's defective. The stand off comes in the way that the DN notice will stay on file for 6 years from issue. As a DN is as bad as a CCJ they might just leave it to their collectors, bullies and all and never take you to court. On the other hand once seen if there is enough argument you could take them to court to have it removed. This is where the SAR would be handy because they'll have logged all attempted calls and letters sent. The downside is that if your friend never replied, ignored and hoped the debt would vanish a court might not look on this too favourably.

 

Michael

[frettful38]

Heck I have to say that Vanquis were a bit genrous to allow no payment for almost 8 months before issuing the DN. Your friend must have had so many phone calls and letters - Did she not respond to any of them? You mentioned she was now wanting to make some kind of payment plan but I fear 8 months till considering this does seem an excessive time.

 

The problem is that they'll not remove the DN without a fight even if it's defective. The stand off comes in the way that the DN notice will stay on file for 6 years from issue. As a DN is as bad as a CCJ they might just leave it to their collectors, bullies and all and never take you to court. On the other hand once seen if there is enough argument you could take them to court to have it removed. This is where the SAR would be handy because they'll have logged all attempted calls and letters sent. The downside is that if your friend never replied, ignored and hoped the debt would vanish a court might not look on this too favourably.

 

Michael

 

Thanks for the response Informedsearcher, but my friend says that they did not ignore any letters from Vanquis. Vanquis were just being a pain in the butt by not accepting reduced payments, so the court will be able to see that they did try and co-operate, and in the end my friend just logged a complaint against Vanquis to the FOS.

 

I think that the DN should be looked at more clearly and see if anything can be done with that personally.

[frettful38]

This is the DN

http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq223/sophiak_bucket/VanquisDN1-2.jpg

http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq223/sophiak_bucket/VanquisDN2.jpg

 

 

So the DN is definately faulty as DD has stated there is no date or address for Vanquis?

[emandcole]

I would also say its dodgy, composition is all wrong. The 'design' for such notices isn't intended to be the result of artistic flair and self expressionism .

[cab1ne]

Many, many thanks for that. Letter done and ready to go. Cheers

 

but dont forget, your arrears will increase upto the date of acceptence.

 

Default Notice dated the 23rd October 2009 and subsequent Termination Notice dated the 4th November 2009. + december, january, february

 

cab

[InformedSearcher]

Thanks for the response Informedsearcher, but my friend says that they did not ignore any letters from Vanquis. Vanquis were just being a pain in the butt by not accepting reduced payments, so the court will be able to see that they did try and co-operate, and in the end my friend just logged a complaint against Vanquis to the FOS.

 

I think that the DN should be looked at more clearly and see if anything can be done with that personally.

 

 

Sorry, my comments regarding offering reduced payments mean to reflect on the time from being unable to pay the full monthly payment to when a request was made to Vanquis. In other words did your friend speak to them back in April or wait until January this year? For example it would seem unfair if Vanquis say refused back in April or May or even June. However to make no payments whatsoever since April would ring the alarm bells.

 

The current DN notice that maybe defective is another thing to the run up to it. You see the 'Catch 22' comes in because there's a Default noted on the CRA's. Vanquis will not remove it because they believe it should be there. You, after the FOS come back have to decide if you wish to fight it. Vanquis will come back that in their letters they enclosed information on ideas on how to resolve the matter but nothing was done. So unless the FOS force them (unlikely) to remove the DN it'll stay. The problem is the the CRA files will show the months as overdue then the DN itself.

 

Whilst banks have discretion they seldom take risks if they believe they will lose. So they normally use a type of points system as they did with a loan I had. Each month of no payment tends to clock up a point. Half payment will mean half a point. Generally when they clock up to 6 points they decide to issue the DN. Some banks might wait for a couple of points less. With my example even if I paid half the repayment figure monthly after 12 months the 6 points would have clocked up. The interest on open accounts also continues to clock on too.

 

Michael

[diddydicky]

Thanks DD for that. This is another letter I believe requesting full payment.

 

http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq223/sophiak_bucket/VanquisDemand2.jpg

 

I don't know if my friend has anymore but I am looking through their file on top of the 1001 things of my own to do:)

 

if that is the full amount of the account displayed there then yes you can accept that as an unlawful repudiation

 

it is a clear demand to pay with threats of the consequences if you don't

 

didnt you write at the time and accept the unlawful repudiation?

 

have a look through your files and find it, then next time they write to you remind them that the agreement no longer endures since your acceptance of their unlawful repudiation

[frettful38]

if that is the full amount of the account displayed there then yes you can accept that as an unlawful repudiation

 

it is a clear demand to pay with threats of the consequences if you don't

 

didnt you write at the time and accept the unlawful repudiation?

 

have a look through your files and find it, then next time they write to you remind them that the agreement no longer endures since your acceptance of their unlawful repudiation

 

 

Thanks DD, to be honest I have only just found out myself recently what unlawful repudiation means, so hardly in a position to advise my friend. They have never sent one of these letters either but as you have so kindly pointed this out then I will get them to send Vanquis this Unlawful Rescission Letter today.

 

I have checked through my friends file and there is nothing relating to this. Also this letter is demanding full payment to be made within 7 days of their letter dated Oct 09. Also there is another letter from Vanquis's inhouse DCA's named Connaught dated Sept 09 also requesting payment in full within 7 days. So there are a few letters demanding full payment from 3 different DCA's acting on behalf of Vanquis.

 

Should we send off the Unlawful Repudiation letter now? Or is it the Unlawful Rescission letter? or are they both the same thing?

[frettful38]

I think I will need a hand with writing out this letter, because the Default Notice is not dated so will not be able to write that bit. Only a letter which states Notice of Default which is dated the 9th June 09.

 

Also how will we know what date the termination took place. Do we count the date of the first demand for payment in full after the DN?

 

Hope you can advise DD.

[Bigdebtor]

Surely seeing DD's suggested wording for accepting the TN and claiming unlawful rescission has reminded you that such a letter WAS sent just after the TN came in? It's amazing how seeing a similar letter jogs the memory on this. It certainly did for me (several times!).

 

BD

[frettful38]

Quite right you are BD.

[MandM]

Surely seeing DD's suggested wording for accepting the TN and claiming unlawful rescission has reminded you that such a letter WAS sent just after the TN came in? It's amazing how seeing a similar letter jogs the memory on this. It certainly did for me (several times!).

 

BD

 

Hope the amnesia is improving BD. After so many years it just gets..................just gets................just......gets..........oh, i'll come back to it.

 

M

[frettful38]

Vanquis demanded payment in full in March 09, DN sent June 09, 1st DCA demand for payment in full Sept 09, 2nd DCA demand for payment in full Oct 09.

 

So the TN date would be Sept 09? am I correct? Also will have to change the wording as the DN is missing essential things like the date , creditors address e.t.c

 

Is this letter right?

 

Your Ref Account No xxxxxxxxxxxxx -Terminated

 

with reference to your letter of 9th June 2009 in which you unlawfully repudiated the agreement and my subsequent acceptance of your unlawful actions, i still await notification from you of the exact amount of genuine arrears (not including any unlawful charges) that were due at the time of termination.

 

Against these arrears which i accept will be due for payment, I may make a counterclaim for your unlawful rescission of the agreement

 

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

Or this one?

 

 

 

 

Re account no xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Unlawful Rescission.

 

With reference to the alleged debt to your company, I refer to your Default Notice dated xxxxxxxxxxx, posted second class and received by me on xxxxxxxxxxx, and your recent actions confirming your previous written intentions to terminate the agreement.

I accept your unlawful rescission of the agreement I note that you are now entitled to claim those arrears genuinely due at the time of the termination (not including any unlawful charges ) and i would be obliged if you would advise me of the exact amount of those arrears, against which will be a claim for unlawful rescission

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours faithfully

Edited February 5, 2010 by frettful38

[Jameson78]

Fantastic thread! I was directed by a fellow cagger to this thread. I have spent hours reading through the posts and kindly request your help in determining if this is a faulty one too? Cap 1 are giving 28 days Please help. TN also attached below. Thanks in advance

 

DN:

http://s896.photobucket.com/albums/ac162/jameson78/?action=view&current=CCA_CAP_DEFAULT1.jpg

 

 

TN:

http://s896.photobucket.com/albums/ac162/jameson78/?action=view&current=CCA_CAP_TN.jpg

 

 

Overdue amount in the DN is £3xx.00

Overdue amount in the TN is £4xx.00

 

 

Pinky, thank you for the amazing thread

[welshperson3]

Will you post up a image of the back of the DN

And did it have your name and address on it ?

[Jameson78]

Here it is:

 

http://s896.photobucket.com/albums/ac162/jameson78/?action=view&current=CCA_CAP_DEFAULTBACK.jpg

 

Yes, my name and address correct on DN.

[diddydicky]

Thanks DD, to be honest I have only just found out myself recently what unlawful repudiation means, so hardly in a position to advise my friend. They have never sent one of these letters either but as you have so kindly pointed this out then I will get them to send Vanquis this Unlawful Rescission Letter today.

 

I have checked through my friends file and there is nothing relating to this. Also this letter is demanding full payment to be made within 7 days of their letter dated Oct 09. Also there is another letter from Vanquis's inhouse DCA's named Connaught dated Sept 09 also requesting payment in full within 7 days. So there are a few letters demanding full payment from 3 different DCA's acting on behalf of Vanquis.

 

Should we send off the Unlawful Repudiation letter now? Or is it the Unlawful Rescission letter? or are they both the same thing?

 

i would write to them on some "pretext" (their demands for payment) and refer them to their unlawful repudiation of the agreement last year which was accepted and that you are still waiting to be advised of the amount of the arrears that were genuinely outstanding at the time they unlawfully terminated the agreement

 

you are letting them know that you regarded the agreement as unlawfully terminated last year (even if you did not put it in writing - of which there is no legal obligation)

 

make sure you keep letters of all future correspondence after that which, i personally would always then head:-

 

Re Your Ref Account XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX -terminated agreement

[Undercover-Elsa]

Hi Pinky, DD and all,

I'd really appreciate a second opinion on the following, as there's a shark fin approaching rapidly..

 

I received a DN last year all dates, amounts and other prescribed statements are OK apart from a chunk of text missing from one of the prescribed paragraphs.

What it should state is:

"You should be aware that if we take you to court and get a judgment against you requiring you to pay us the money you owe us under the agreement, you may have to pay us both the amount of the judgment (and interest under the agreement on all the sums owed by you at the date of the judgment)until you have paid these in full. This means that even if you pay off the whole amount of the judgment, you may still have a further sum to pay."

 

In mine the text in red is missing. There is also no signature or name, just the Bank name and it was issued while in default of a CCA request.

 

De Minimus? It's all I've got

Thanks,

Elsa X

[diddydicky]

it looks like a generic phrase in their form in which they delete that which does not apply to your particular account

[Undercover-Elsa]

Thanks DD,

That's what I was afraid of. It should be there though as the T&C's allow for post judgement interest. The sentence doesn't make sense without it, but if it's not a prescribed statement anyway I suppose it's irrelevant.

[vint1954]

Thanks DD,

That's what I was afraid of. It should be there though as the T&C's allow for post judgement interest. The sentence doesn't make sense without it, but if it's not a prescribed statement anyway I suppose it's irrelevant.

Hi Elsa, are you sure that the dates are OK?

[diddydicky]

Thanks DD,

That's what I was afraid of. It should be there though as the T&C's allow for post judgement interest. The sentence doesn't make sense without it, but if it's not a prescribed statement anyway I suppose it's irrelevant.

 

that may be true but there is no law that says they MUST charge that interest.........and i certainly wouldn't complain to the judge that they were not doing so:D

[Undercover-Elsa]

Hi Vint,

Unfortunately, yes gives from 23rd of one month to 18th of next.