Invalid Default Notices

[frettful38]

Thanks emandcole, I have posted my DN its in post 1201 on here. It has been confirmed that it is correct so no go there I'm afraid. I will however write to the OC to find out what is going on and probably write to them and invite them to take me to court.

 

What do you reckon?

[Bigdebtor]

Agree, it is unreasonable for the original creditor to have split any debt into two parts and for you to have to now deal with two DCA's/owners. Where in the terms and conditions did it say this could happen?

 

Technically it is a breach of the OFT debt collection guidelines as two DCA's (owners or otherwise) are now chasing what is still one debt.

 

Get the original creditor to explain what they were doing, where does it end otherwise, split it into ten pieces?

 

Have you got the original default notice? If it's invalid and the OC terminated on you the debt is finished anyway. Perhaps a better way to go?

 

As I said earlier I would write to all 3 (copying the other two in each letter) asking "WTF is going on? :?WHICH ONE of you 3 should I be dealing with? I WILL ONLY deal with 1 of you - and only when the other 2 agree to this".

 

The invalid DN is another route to take - and may get the whole lot written off - but you need to know WHO to deal with first. If no satisfactory response get FOS or OFT to rule on who is calling the shots among the 3 of them (you are actually calling the REAL shots - but they don't know it yet!).

 

BD

[emandcole]

Thanks emandcole, I have posted my DN its in post 1201 on here. It has been confirmed that it is correct so no go there I'm afraid. I will however write to the OC to find out what is going on and probably write to them and invite them to take me to court.

 

What do you reckon?

 

Wouldn't do that, you still have a very valid point of argument here that can be cleared up by the creditors. As bigdebtor suggests insist they sort it out and get the FOS to intervene.

[lexis200]

First of all, I'm sure you know already, but if not make sure you keep the envelope that letter came in (and do the same for any other letters!). The more letters you have showing how they act the better, if not for court then at least for saying to them 'I can show how unreasonable you've been so lets agree something or I'll be taking this to TS'.

 

The delay in writing/sending etc is a standard tactic. I don't think I'd be inviting court action when they have a valid agreement and DN unless you actually want the finality/certainty of a CCJ. I can see how that may be tempting given the run-around you're getting, but just have a think before putting that idea in front of them.

 

If Lowells have bought the debt from SD then why are they saying that neither they nor SD think you're in dispute? Surely if SD have sold the account then what they think is now irrelevant, or have I missed a step somewhere? I think the previous posters are correct and you need to send a letter to one and cc the others asking exactly what is going on, and also stating that until all three answer (and more importantly until all three of those answers correspond!!!) then no-one will be paid.

 

You could put something along the lines of 'I will keep the money that would be used for payments aside, and when you have given me the courtesy of an answer the owner of the account will have these payments forwarded and a payment plan can then be agreed upon'. This at least shows willing on your part and should any of them decide to take court action then that coupled with the mess they've got this into should put you in a favourable light.

[the_shadow]

Is this CCA correct?

 

http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq223/sophiak_bucket/LittlewoodsCCA.jpg

 

Is this DN correct?

 

http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq223/sophiak_bucket/LittlewoodsDN.jpg

 

 

err 4.APR 0% ???? Is this correct?

 

S.

[frettful38]

err 4.APR 0% ???? Is this correct?

 

S.

 

 

Hi shadow, what do mean is the 4.APR 0% correct please?

[frettful38]

First of all, I'm sure you know already, but if not make sure you keep the envelope that letter came in (and do the same for any other letters!). The more letters you have showing how they act the better, if not for court then at least for saying to them 'I can show how unreasonable you've been so lets agree something or I'll be taking this to TS'.

 

The delay in writing/sending etc is a standard tactic. I don't think I'd be inviting court action when they have a valid agreement and DN unless you actually want the finality/certainty of a CCJ. I can see how that may be tempting given the run-around you're getting, but just have a think before putting that idea in front of them.

 

If Lowells have bought the debt from SD then why are they saying that neither they nor SD think you're in dispute? Surely if SD have sold the account then what they think is now irrelevant, or have I missed a step somewhere? I think the previous posters are correct and you need to send a letter to one and cc the others asking exactly what is going on, and also stating that until all three answer (and more importantly until all three of those answers correspond!!!) then no-one will be paid.

 

You could put something along the lines of 'I will keep the money that would be used for payments aside, and when you have given me the courtesy of an answer the owner of the account will have these payments forwarded and a payment plan can then be agreed upon'. This at least shows willing on your part and should any of them decide to take court action then that coupled with the mess they've got this into should put you in a favourable light.

 

 

Thanks lexis200, I will certainly be writing to OC trust me, and thank you for the great advice.

[the_shadow]

Hi shadow, what do mean is the 4.APR 0% correct please?

 

Is this credit agreement charging no interest?

 

Under the CCA key financial details number 4 states 0% APR.... I've never had a littlewoods account so dont know if it does charge interest or not, hence the question.

 

S.

[frettful38]

Is this credit agreement charging no interest?

 

Under the CCA key financial details number 4 states 0% APR.... I've never had a littlewoods account so dont know if it does charge interest or not, hence the question.

 

S.

 

Thanks shadow, not too sure about this one myself but sure will look in to it.

[frettful38]

I did do a subject access request to Littlewoods some time ago and I have just been going over what they have added to my balance.

 

There are Administration chrage of £10 added, Insufficient Minimum Payment Fee of £10 added [what the hell is that for], I shalll have a thorough look through my SAR and see what else comes up.

[Bigdebtor]

I did do a subject access request to Littlewoods some time ago and I have just been going over what they have added to my balance.

 

There are Administration chrage of £10 added, Insufficient Minimum Payment Fee of £10 added [what the hell is that for], I shalll have a thorough look through my SAR and see what else comes up.

 

I think these are £10 default charges - and unfair and fully recoverable if they can't prove they incurred £10 of additional costs by your missed payments etc. They CAN'T prove that and won't even try!

 

If they have actually stated 0% apr and then charged you ANY interest AT ALL then I thinbk you have won a watch regarding unenforceability.

 

ZERO becoming SOMETHING (ie. not zero - can't be de minimus - it's the EXACT OPPOSITE! :-?

 

BD

Edited February 2, 2010 by Bigdebtor

[Bigdebtor]

First of all, I'm sure you know already, but if not make sure you keep the envelope that letter came in (and do the same for any other letters!). The more letters you have showing how they act the better, if not for court then at least for saying to them 'I can show how unreasonable you've been so lets agree something or I'll be taking this to TS'.

 

The delay in writing/sending etc is a standard tactic. I don't think I'd be inviting court action when they have a valid agreement and DN unless you actually want the finality/certainty of a CCJ. I can see how that may be tempting given the run-around you're getting, but just have a think before putting that idea in front of them.

 

If Lowells have bought the debt from SD then why are they saying that neither they nor SD think you're in dispute? Surely if SD have sold the account then what they think is now irrelevant, or have I missed a step somewhere? I think the previous posters are correct and you need to send a letter to one and cc the others asking exactly what is going on, and also stating that until all three answer (and more importantly until all three of those answers correspond!!!) then no-one will be paid.

 

You could put something along the lines of 'I will keep the money that would be used for payments aside, and when you have given me the courtesy of an answer the owner of the account will have these payments forwarded and a payment plan can then be agreed upon'. This at least shows willing on your part and should any of them decide to take court action then that coupled with the mess they've got this into should put you in a favourable light.

 

I largely agree with Lexis here - but I do think you need to be careful about admitting to owing anything at all. Perhaps say somethinbg like "I shall keep payments aside to pay anything legally recoverable" ?

 

Can someone else help with a better legal wording that protects the debtor's interests in this?

 

BD

[frettful38]

Thanks BD, the question is how to find out if I have been charged interest, and as catologue companies mostly do not state this but slyly we all know its added in the goods that we order.

[Bigdebtor]

I think thye should state the interest on the statements - but it should be easy to work out if interest has been charged - Check if your balance owed is what it should be. Is the original amount of credit what you expected - ie. did it equal the cost of goods purchased - or is there initial interest rolled into this? Then add any default charges and then take away your total payments. If the amount fo the current balance does not tally then other charges (what? - interest?) have been added.

[the_shadow]

Thanks BD, the question is how to find out if I have been charged interest, and as catologue companies mostly do not state this but slyly we all know its added in the goods that we order.

 

Look at the statements... if after you have made a payment the new balance doesnt equal the old balance minus your payment then interest is being charged.

 

S.

[frettful38]

I think thye should state the interest on the statements - but it should be easy to work out if interest has been charged - Check if your balance owed is what it should be. Is the original amount of credit what you expected - ie. did it equal the cost of goods purchased - or is there initial interest rolled into this? Then add any default charges and then take away your total payments. If the amount fo the current balance does not tally then other charges (what? - interest?) have been added.

 

 

Thanks BD, I will do that after I have written out my letter to the OC. Should I write to Cabot & Lowell and inform them that I have written to the OC and until I get a response from them I will have no dealings with them?

 

 

I was thinking of writing this to the OC,

 

Dear Littlewoods,

 

Please could you write and advise which company you have sold my debt to.

 

 

Lets see what they respond.

[frettful38]

Look at the statements... if after you have made a payment the new balance doesnt equal the old balance minus your payment then interest is being charged.

 

S.

 

 

Thanks shadow, now that you have mentioned this I have just discovered something even more strange. Having had a good luck at my SAR I have only just noticed that dispite opening an account in Feb 06 the statements in my SAR start from week 35.

There are no statements prior to week 35 contained in my SAR, so that's something else to dispute about.

[Bigdebtor]

I see the Shadow has just made the same point as me - but much more succinctly;)

 

I would send a longer letter - identical one to all 3 showing cc to the other 2 along the lines:

 

1. I took out a cca on date for £amount with OC name.

2. I was advised by OC name on date that the debt was (assigned/passed) - use word in OC's letter - to DCA1.

3. I was then advised by OC name on date that (whatever next letter said) to DCA2.

4. I believe I am now being pursued by both DCA1 and DCA2 for payment of the same alleged debt, which is contrary to OFT and FOS guidelines.

5. I require all 3 of you to advise me jointly and severally of the correct status as you believe it of any debt which may be outstanding in respect of any debt taken out or any CCA agreed by me on date from OC.

6. Until I have received confirmation from all 3 and have an identical position stated by all 3 of you, I shall enter into no further communication nor make any further payments but shall retain any payments which may be due pending a resolution as outlined above.

 

Change the words to suit - but keep the message as intended.

 

Good luck

 

BD

[lexis200]

I largely agree with Lexis here - but I do think you need to be careful about admitting to owing anything at all. Perhaps say somethinbg like "I shall keep payments aside to pay anything legally recoverable" ?

 

Can someone else help with a better legal wording that protects the debtor's interests in this?

 

BD

 

True if there are issues regarding enforceability etc., but I thought the agreement and DN were kosher, so there wouldn't be much point trying to be cagey as you've nothing to gain (or lose).

 

Just had a look on littlewoods site and this is on their credit accounts page

 

Littlewoods

 

so I think the 0% is correct unless you had another specific type of account...

[frettful38]

I see the Shadow has just made the same point as me - but much more succinctly;)

 

I would send a longer letter - identical one to all 3 showing cc to the other 2 along the lines:

 

1. I took out a cca on date for £amount with OC name.

2. I was advised by OC name on date that the debt was (assigned/passed) - use word in OC's letter - to DCA1.

3. I was then advised by OC name on date that (whatever next letter said) to DCA2.

4. I believe I am now being pursued by both DCA1 and DCA2 for payment of the same alleged debt, which is contrary to OFT and FOS guidelines.

5. I require all 3 of you to advise me jointly and severally of the correct status as you believe it of any debt which may be outstanding in respect of any debt taken out or any CCA agreed by me on date from OC.

6. Until I have received confirmation from all 3 and have an identical position stated by all 3 of you, I shall enter into no further communication nor make any further payments but shall retain any payments which may be due pending a resolution as outlined above.

 

Change the words to suit - but keep the message as intended.

 

Good luck

 

BD

 

Thanks DB very much for that I will copy the above and send off to all 3 companies. Your scales have been tipped;)

[frettful38]

True if there are issues regarding enforceability etc., but I thought the agreement and DN were kosher, so there wouldn't be much point trying to be cagey as you've nothing to gain (or lose).

 

Just had a look on littlewoods site and this is on their credit accounts page

 

Littlewoods

 

so I think the 0% is correct unless you had another specific type of account...

 

Thanks lexis200 I won't mention the DN as I believe it is correct, but will write what DB has advised.

[lexis200]

I see the Shadow has just made the same point as me - but much more succinctly;)

 

I would send a longer letter - identical one to all 3 showing cc to the other 2 along the lines:

 

1. I took out a cca on date for £amount with OC name.

2. I was advised by OC name on date that the debt was (assigned/passed) - use word in OC's letter - to DCA1.

3. I was then advised by OC name on date that (whatever next letter said) to DCA2.

4. I believe I am now being pursued by both DCA1 and DCA2 for payment of the same alleged debt, which is contrary to OFT and FOS guidelines.

5. I require all 3 of you to advise me jointly and severallyI'd probably leave that out. They've not helped you with any suggestions so make them work out how they need to sort this out! of the correct status as you believe it That gives them a get out (I'm sorry frettful, but we believed we were correct in telling you xy and z...')of any debt which may be outstanding in respect of any debt taken out or any CCA agreed by me on date from OC.

6. Until I have received confirmation from all 3 and have an identical position stated by all 3 of you, I shall enter into no further communication nor make any further payments but shall retain any payments which may be due pending a resolution as outlined above.

 

Change the words to suit - but keep the message as intended.

 

Good luck

 

BD

 

I'm not too sure you can start with 'I took out a cca' then change to 'alleged debt', especially if they have an agreement which kind of blows the alleged bit away?? Perhaps if you want to keep the alleged bit in you could amend 'took out a cca' to 'applied for an account' or similar.

[Bigdebtor]

Lexi thanks

 

all fair points - that is exactly why I want further CAG feedback to my suggestions - does anyone know if there is any template that suits this bit?

 

BD

Edited February 2, 2010 by Bigdebtor
typos

[lexis200]

What bit in particular?

[Bigdebtor]

I'm not too sure you can start with 'I took out a cca' then change to 'alleged debt', especially if they have an agreement which kind of blows the alleged bit away?? Perhaps if you want to keep the alleged bit in you could amend 'took out a cca' to 'applied for an account' or similar.

 

The bit wot you called a bit:)