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    • Speaking of the reformatory boys, here they are with all of their supporters, some of whom traveled with them from miles away, all carefully crammed together and photographed to look like there were more than about 80 .. rather like Farages last rally with even fewer people crammed around what looked like an ice cream van or mobile tea bar ... Although a number in the crowd apparently thought they were at a vintage car rally as they appeared to be chanting 'crank-her'. A vintage Bentley must be out of view.   Is this all there is? Its less than the Tory candidate. - shut up and smile while they get a camera angle that looks better
    • in order for us to help you we require the following information:- Which Court have you received the claim from ? Canterbury If possible please scan redact and upload a full page copy of page 1 of the claim form. ( Name of the Claimant ? Moneybarn No 1   How many defendant's  joint or self ? One Date of issue – top right hand corner of the claim form – this in order to establish the time line you need to adhere to. 29/05/24 Acknowledged by 14/06/24  Defence by 29/06/24  Particulars of Claim PARTICULARS OF CLAIM   1.  By a Conditional Sale Agreement in writing made on 25th August 2022. Between the Claimant and Defendant, the Claimant let to the Defendant on Conditional Sale. A Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi (200 P S) 4x4 Wildtrack  Double Cab Pickup 3200cc (Sep.2015) Registration No, ******* Chassis number ***************** (“The Vehicle”).  A copy of the agreement is attached   2.  The price of the goods was £15,995.00.  The Initial Rental was £8500.00.  The total charge for credit was £3575.;17 And the balance of £11,070.17 was payable by 59 equal consecutive monthly instalments of £187 63. payable on the 25th of each month.   3.  The following were expressed conditions of the set agreement,   Clause 8: Our Right to End this Agreement  8.1   Subject to sending you the notice as required by law, any of the following events will entitle us to end this Agreement: 8.1.2  You fail to pay the advance payment (if any) or any of the payments as specified on the front page of this agreement or any other sum payable under this Agreement. 8.1.3 If any of the information you have given us before entering into this Agreement or during the term of this Agreement was false 8.1.4 We consider, acting reasonably, that the goods may be in jeopardy or that our rights in the goods may otherwise be prejudiced. 8.1.5 If you die 8.1.6 If a bankruptcy petition is presented against you; if you petition for your own bankruptcy, or make a live arrangement with your creditors or call a meeting of them. 8. 1.7 If in Scotland, you become insolvent or sequestration or a receiver, judicial factor or trustee to be appointed over any of your estate, or effects or suffer an arrestment, charge attachment or other diligence to be issued or levied on any of your estate or effects or suffer any exercise, or threatened exercise of landlords hype hypothec 8.1.8 If you are a partnership, you are dissolved 8.1.9 If the goods are destroyed, lost, stolen and/or treated by the insurer as a total loss in response to an insurance claim. 8.1.10 If we reasonably believe any payment made to us in respect of this Agreement is a proceed of crime. 8.1.11 If steps are taken by us to terminate any other agreement which you have entered into with us.   Clause 9.  Effect of Us Terminating Agreement   9.1 If this Agreement terminates under clause 8 the following will apply 9.1.1 Subject to the rights given to you by law, you will no longer be entitled to possession of the goods and must return them to us to an address as we may reasonably specify, (removing or commencing the removal of any cherished plates) together with a V5 registration certificate, both sets of keys and a service record book. If you are unable or unwilling to return the goods to us then we shall collect the goods and we'll charge you in accordance with clause 10.3 9.1.2 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you for all payments and all other sums do under this agreement at the date of termination 9.1.3 We will sell the goods or public sale at the earliest opportunity once the goods are in a reasonable condition which includes a return of the items listed in clause 7.1.4 9.1.4 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you of the rest of the Total Amount Payable under this agreement less: ( a) A rebate for early settlement ias required by law which will be calculated and notified to you at the time of payment (b) The proceeds of sale of the goods (if any) after deduction of all costs associated with finding you and/or the goods, recovery, refurbishment and repair. Insurance, storage, sale, agents fees, cherished plate removal, replacement keys, costs associated with obtaining service history for the goods and in relation to obtaining a duplicate V5 registration certificate   4, The following are particulars required by Civil Procedure Rules. Rule 7.9 as set out in 7.1 and 7.2 of the associated Practice Direction entitled Hire Purchase Claims:-   a)     The agreement is dated 25 August 2022. And is between Moneybarn No1 Limited  and xxxxxxxxx under agreement number 756050. b)    The claimant was one of the original parties to the agreement. c)    The agreement is regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. d)    The goods claimed Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi ( 200 PS) 4x4 Wildtrack Double Cab Pickup 3200 cc (Sep2015} Registration No ^^^^^^^ Chassis number ***************** e)     Thw total price of the goods £19570 f)     The paid up sum £1206 5 g)    The unpaid balance of the total price £7505 (to include charges) h)    A default notice was sent to the defendant on 20th February 2024 by Firrst class post i)      The date when the right to demand delivery of the goods accrued 14 March 2024 j)      The amount if any claimed as an alternative to delivery of the goods 7505 22 include charges ]= 5.  A the date of service of the notice the instalments were £562.89 in arrears. 6. By reason of the Termination of the Agreement by the notice, defendant became liable to pay the sum of £7502 7. The date of maturity the agreement is 24th August 2027. 8. Further or  alternative by reasons of  the Defendant breaches of the agreement by failing to pay the said instalments, the Defendant evinced an intention no longer to be bound by the Agreement and repudiated it by the said Notice the claimant accepted that repudiation 9. By reason of such repudiation the claimant has suffered loss and damage.   Total amount payable £19570 Less sum paid or in arrears by the date of repudiation £12064 97 Balance £7505 (to include charges.) ( The claimant will give credit if necessary for the value of the vehicle if recovered.)  The claimant therefore claims 1.    An order for delivery up of the vehicle 2.    The MoneyClaim to be adjourned generally with liberty to restore,  Upon restoration of the MoneyClaim following return or loss of the vehicle. the Claimant will ensure the pre action protocol for debt claims is followed. 3.    Pursuant to s 90 (1)  of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. An order that the Claimant and/or its agents may enter any premises in which the vehicle is situated in order to recover the vehicle should it not be returned by the Defendant 4.    further or alternatively damages 5.    costs.   Statement of truth The Claimant believes that the facts stated in these Particulars of Claim are true. The Claimant understands that the proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes or causes to be made a false statement in the document for verified by statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth. I am duly Authorised by the Claimant to sign these Particulars of Claim signed Dated 17th of April 2024   What is the total value of the claim? 7502   Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? No   Never heard of this   Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No   Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? n/a Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? No   When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? After  Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? In a garage  Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? Yes  Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Original Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? n/a   Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? They said sent but nor received   Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? None seen   Why did you cease payments? Still Paying,   What was the date of your last payment? Yesterday  31st May 2024   Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No   Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? Yes on 12 Feb 2024   What you need to do now.   Can't scan, will do via another means as you cant have jpg
    • Now that is an interesting article which adds afew perspective that I hadn't thought significant - but on reflection of the perspectives offered ... Now Starmer is no Blair, however 'blairite he may be perceived, but the Tories aren't tories and aren't even remotely liberal   The fast 'unannounced and unexpected election call from sunack may well be explained by the opinion linked that he hoped reform would be unprepared and effectively call a chunk of Farages largely empty bluster - making him look even more of a prat, leave scope for attacks on shabby reform candidates and mimimise core vote losses to reform - while throwing the 'middle ground' (relative) tories TO THE DOGS - and with the added bonus of likely pacifying his missu' desire to jogg off to sunny cal tout suite somewhat   thumb in the air - I expect about 140ish tory seats, but can hope for under a hundred Reform - got to admit the outside possibility of 1, maybe 2 seats with about 8% of the vote - but unlikely. I think projections of over 10% of the vote for reform is nudged and paid for speculation - but possible with the expected massive drives from Russian, Chinese and far right social media bot and troll prods targeting the gullible.
    • Commentary June 2024 WWW.ELECTORALCALCULUS.CO.UK Interesting article about just how bad it could be for the Tories.  Also Tories could be hoping on Reform not having candidates in many seats, as they were not ready.  
    • Even a Piers Morgan is an improvement and a gutless Farage Piers Morgan calls for second Brexit referendum WWW.THELONDONECONOMIC.COM Piers Morgan and Nigel Farage have faced off over Brexit and a second referendum in a heated reunion on BBC Question Time.   “Why don’t we have another referendum about Brexit?” he questioned. “I seem to remember when 2016 came around we were told there was going to be control of our borders and it was going to be economically beneficial to this country. And eight years later we have lost complete control of our borders… and economically it seems to have been a wilful act of self-harm.”   ... Piers missed off : after all somebody said a 48/52 decision would be "unfinished business" by a long way - was that person just bul lying (again)  
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      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
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      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Invalid Default Notices


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I'm very glad about that, Lexis, :) but seriously, how do you choose a forum for a thread?

 

Sorry DD, I didn't realise you needed a leg-up, so to speak:)

 

I do the same as Dotty - find the relevant forum, click on it then click the new thread button at the top left.

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From memory, doesn't the court assume post is 2nd Class if there is nothing to prove otherwise?

 

They could just produce a witness statement that it had been posted first class, but as DD has already explained the DN is faulty because the date is wrong! Once they terminate the account or demand the full balance write to them accepting their unlawful rescission of the agreement...

Here are links to my other threads... Please take a look and offer any help you can. Thanks...

 

1. Legal Action - Cabot Financial (Goldfish Account) ***WON***

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?252630-Urgent-Help-Required-With-Disclosure-***WON***&highlight=

 

2. Legal Action - Set aside application - Marlins/Phoenix

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?265002-Set-aside-of-judgement-(acceptance)-help-needed&highlight=

 

3. Legal Action - Set Aside Default Judgement -Santander (B & Q Store Card)

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?261340-Urgent-Help-required-drafting-defence-for-set-aside-application&highlight

 

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I was only giving a thought on the keeping the envelope query rather than anything to do with the validity or otherwise of the DN, but I take your point. Of course if they did state that it was sent 1st class I'd be asking for proof showing that all their DN's/correspondence are sent in a similar manner.

 

Drederick - even if you don't have that envelope, make sure you keep any others from them. I'd guess they are sending everything 2nd class? If so, if they then did make a witness statement saying they sent it 1st class you could throw doubt on that by querying why every other item you receive is sent 2nd class. Being able to show a postage history is a useful thing:)

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Thank you all for your comments.

 

Am I right in thinking they have to terminate before I post an unlawful rescission letter? Also by posting this would I be admitting the debt?

 

A question for DiddyDicky...

 

 

 

If I didn't have the envelope, would it be up to me to prove that the letter was posted second class or would it be down to Mercers to prove they sent it first class?

 

as colin has said- if they swear an affidavit that they posted first class then you would need to have an envelope showing second class or private carrier to defeat that statement (as a rule)

 

also you have admitted (on a public forum) that it was first class and it would not be the best idea in the world to now deny that fact.

 

rest assured the dn is invalid

 

technically you could take the DN itself as an unlawful termination but much better to wait for a demand for the full amount or termination- dont worry however because writing to accept is simply a "belt and braces" exercise- your conduct following the unlawful repudiation is sufficient to show you have accepted it (and for which reason you should not pay or offer to pay them anything - and better still- stay totally silent and respond to no letters until the terminate/demand the outstanding balance/issue proceedings

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as colin has said- if they swear an affidavit that they posted first class then you would need to have an envelope showing second class or private carrier to defeat that statement (as a rule)

 

also you have admitted (on a public forum) that it was first class and it would not be the best idea in the world to now deny that fact.

 

rest assured the dn is invalid

 

technically you could take the DN itself as an unlawful termination I'd personally only agree with that if they use the word 'will' rather than 'may' before their list of actions though...but much better to wait for a demand for the full amount or termination- dont worry however because writing to accept is simply a "belt and braces" exercise- your conduct following the unlawful repudiation is sufficient to show you have accepted it (and for which reason you should not pay or offer to pay them anything - and better still- stay totally silent and respond to no letters until the terminate/demand the outstanding balance/issue proceedings

 

btw - why did the question arise when it was invalid even when sent 1st class?

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i accept you point- however the purpose and intent of the DN (which is a prescribed legal document- not a debt threatening letter) is for the creditor to leave the customer in no doubt as to what he has done wrong, what he must do to remedy it, and when, and what the consequences are, of failing to do so

 

the use of the word "may" therefore is permissory

 

(i have no english qualifications) however

 

what the creditor is saying is that failing to remedy then gives entitlement to the creditor to do those things he states - in other words if you fail to comply then the law allows him to claim the benefits of s87

 

as in

 

" when you have eaten your tea you MAY go out to play"

going out to play being a consequence of having eaten the tea- once the tea is eaten the child then has permission to go out to play

 

(once the customer fails to comply with the dn Then (and only then) the creditor "may" (can) claim his entitlements under s88)

 

whereas

 

" if i feel like it i MAY go out to play"

 

merely indicates that the writer might decide at a later time to do so

 

(hope the analogy is good)

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Yep it is - especially given that I've just been having a battle of wills with my little one about what he may or may not do. He's winning:rolleyes:

 

I'd still prefer personally to assume it's terminated only once they put it in black and white, either by the use of 'will', or by letter -or of course as you say by claiming the full balance. But then I do realise you're not saying it does definitely mean xy and z, you're only giving examples, so I'm not going to get into a big 'ol debate about it;) I've had enough of that already with my son:D

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Schedule 2 Reg2(2)

 

2-The name of the Creditor Or Owner and it's postal address

 

3-(a) and (b)The nature of the alleged breach of the agreement has been specified BUT the provision of the agreement alleged to have been breached has not been specified

 

© It is quite possible that by requiring you to make payment BEFORE 24th June is not the same thing as requiring payment to be made ''not later than 24th June.''In the former situation you would only have 13 days and the latter the required prescribed 14 days.

 

For the full prescribed 14 days they should have said BEFORE 25th

JUNE

 

4-the prescribed words in the form ''Consequences of failure to comply with default notice''-SHALL follow the specification under paragraph 3© or (d) of any action required to be taken

 

The notice has failed to include

 

Action intended to be taken by creditor or owner

 

6-A clear and unambiguous statement by the creditor or owner indicating, if any action specified under paragraph 3© or

(d) as required to be taken is not duly taken or if no such action is required to be taken, the action which he intends to take by reason of the breach by the debtor or hirer of the agreement--

(a) to terminate the agreement;

(b) to demand earlier payment of any sum;

© to recover possession of any goods or land;

(d) to treat any right conferred on the debtor or hirer by the agreement as terminated, restricted or deferred;

(e) to enforce any security;

(f) to enforce any provision of the agreement which becomes operative only on a breach of another provision of the agreement as specified in the notice, at any time on or after the date specified under paragraph 3© or (d), or, if no action is specified under that paragraph as required to be taken, indicating the date, being a date [not less than fourteen days] after the date of service of the notice, on or after which he intends to take any action indicated in this paragraph.

the notice seems to be missing the above paras

 

If I have missed anything I am sure the others will help!

 

IMPORTANT the above was based on the assumption that it was 1st Class Postal Service

 

Rgds

 

m2ae

 

here is the reference to the Schedules (again!)

 

note the point that was being made about creditor/owner of the loan and not pretending to be

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Okay, as far as DN's go, banks will ignore your comments and still post then onto CRA's. You can scream at the CRA's but they'll merely send your remarks to the originating entry bank and you'll simply get a 'The information is correct'. Now the DN is there (for 6 years) the issue is how to force it off without going to court. Who said justice was fair?!

 

Michael

Until you send them an N1, then they start to think

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I still don't know how to put a new thread in a particular forum. (I've only been here for 18 months!)

 

Here you go DD http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/107001-how-do-i-dummies.html

 

Hope that helps

 

Thanks

Scrapper Coco :cool:

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Doesn't that mean the copy posted from Northampton is not the same copy physically signed in Liverpool - or does the signer just call on Scotty to beam him down with the transmitted letter. :???:Does this matter? :???:

 

I still think it's worth asking all of these questions? If nothing else it will satisfyb our thirst for knowledge!

 

In any case are you saying our legal system recognises the existence of such technology? :roll:

 

BD

 

Any letter that has the insignia of one of the alternative mail companies (DHL,TNT,UK MAIL,SECURE MAIL etc. Has to be looked upon has 2nd class simply because of the time that it takes for these companies to put it into the Royal Mail system, who then deliver it the next morning after receipt.

It is 2nd class at best believe me.

I have no legal training, any knowledge I have has come from this forum, and my own experiences. Always balance up any advice you get with your own common sense.

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if sent by first class service by one of these companies- i maintain that they could make out an argument that it was delivered as first class mail- but in three days rather than two and not four

 

i would therefore urge caution if defending on this point alone!!

 

as an example- if UK mail were to show that they collect mail everyday at say 3pm- then it could conceivably be delivered into the RM system the same day and then RM would deliver it as first class (in 2 days)

 

I am not saying that this is a general rule but remember you are dealing with some pretty imaginative lawyers and creditors

 

as a policeman- i was always told that in order to catch a theif- you had to think like a thief!!

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they collect mail from the customer,

It is then sent to one of their processing centres,

It is machined etc to whatever postcode area the address is in

It is then transported to their depot nearest to one of the 67 Royal Mail centres around the country, it is then sorted again to the various mail centres in that area

it HAS to go to the mail centre that deals with that postcodes delivery offices

Eg: BN/RH is Gatwick, RG/OX/SN is Swindon, HA/NW/SL/UB is Greenford.

 

Royal Mail receive this mail between 09.00 and 13:00.

 

Once Royal Mail receive payment at their head office then the mail centres will be told to release into system.

If there are any anomalies in this process then the mail is held, and believe me there are a lot, example being that letters arrive at wrong mail centre then they get charged the full price for delivery, which delays items concerned.

 

There are so many conditions to these companies using the Royal Mail network.

 

One other thing to remember is that these companies are in no hurry after all it is RM that gets blamed for late delivery.

 

I have said too much but if someone wants more detail PM me, sorry but I will only answer questions from CAGgers I recognise.

I have no legal training, any knowledge I have has come from this forum, and my own experiences. Always balance up any advice you get with your own common sense.

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Quick question.

 

Prior to a default being placed on your credit file, does the original creditor have to send you a default notice?

 

Alan

 

Alan,

 

The guidance the ICO give states they "should" but not they "must", however if they want to take action under the CCA then they have to have issued a default notice.

 

S.

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Until you send them an N1, then they start to think

 

 

Sorry Vint ... N1??

 

Michael

p.s. I want them to think ... hard!

When I was young I thought that money was the most important thing in life; now that I am old I know that it is. (Oscar Wilde)

--I like to be helpful wherever possible however I'm not qualified in this field. I do consider carefully anything important (normally from personal experience) however please understand that any actions taken are at your own risk--

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Okay, as far as DN's go, banks will ignore your comments and still post then onto CRA's. You can scream at the CRA's but they'll merely send your remarks to the originating entry bank and you'll simply get a 'The information is correct'. Now the DN is there (for 6 years) the issue is how to force it off without going to court. Who said justice was fair?!

 

Michael

 

Michael,

 

I think you are confusing a Default Notice with a record on the CRAs showing a default here?

Here are links to my other threads... Please take a look and offer any help you can. Thanks...

 

1. Legal Action - Cabot Financial (Goldfish Account) ***WON***

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?252630-Urgent-Help-Required-With-Disclosure-***WON***&highlight=

 

2. Legal Action - Set aside application - Marlins/Phoenix

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?265002-Set-aside-of-judgement-(acceptance)-help-needed&highlight=

 

3. Legal Action - Set Aside Default Judgement -Santander (B & Q Store Card)

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?261340-Urgent-Help-required-drafting-defence-for-set-aside-application&highlight

 

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Hi Shadow, thanks for that.

 

I have been looking at ICO's guidelines, and it points to the Lending Code, which all the banks and building societies subscribe to, in section 3:

36. Whether or not notice was given by the subscriber and consent was obtained from the customer at the time the account was opened, disclosure of default information can be made. But, in all cases, the customer must be given further notice of the intention to disclose the information at least 28 days before the disclosure is made (for example, when a default notice or formal demand is given). At the same time, customers must be given an explanation about how default information registered against them may affect their ability to obtain credit in the future. This notice will mean that customers have 28 days to try to repay or come to some arrangement with the subscriber before default information is passed to the CRA.

The reason I bring this up id due to Cabot saying that their is no requirement to produce a DN. However if you have been defaulted by the OC then, according to the Lending Code, a DN has to be served.

 

 

Alan

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Hi Shadow, thanks for that.

 

I have been looking at ICO's guidelines, and it points to the Lending Code, which all the banks and building societies subscribe to, in section 3:

The reason I bring this up id due to Cabot saying that their is no requirement to produce a DN. However if you have been defaulted by the OC then, according to the Lending Code, a DN has to be served.

 

 

Alan

 

you are confusing a Default Notice with a Notice of Default

 

two different animals!!

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