friend and O2 and lowells

[andie_303]

Hi

 

Quick question.

 

A friend of mine is being pursued for a mobile phone contract that was disconnected by O2 in 2007.

They have recieved a letter from Lowells/Red this week saying they are now the owners of the debt.

 

Now my friend would happily just ignore them but I have read some things about Lowells on here and am wondering if I can take the fight back to them somehow.

 

My friend tells me there is no signed agreement on this as it was done online and the store she did it with online back in 2002 sent the paperwork for her to sign and return but she never did.

 

So my question is without a legally signed agreement can this actually be pursued - I'm not sure of the rules surrounding mobile phones and if CCA's apply here or not so if anyone could enlighten me it would be very much appreciated.

[cerberusalert]

Tell your friend to send this to Lowlifes;

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Account no:

 

You have contacted me/us regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by myself/ourselves.

 

I/we would point out that I/we have no knowledge of any such debt being owed to (insert company name).

 

I am/we are familiar with the Office of Fair Trading Debt Collection Guidance which states that it unfair to send demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question.

 

I/we would also point out that the OFT say under the Guidance that it is unfair to pursue third parties for payment when they are not liable. In not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt you are using deceptive/and or unfair methods.

 

Furthermore ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment amounts to physical/psychological harassment.

 

I/we would ask that no further contact be made concerning the above account unless you can provide evidence as to my/our liability for the debt in question.

 

I/we await your written confirmation that this matter is now closed. Otherwise I will have no option but to make a complaint to the trading standards department and consider informing the OFT of your actions.

 

I/we look forward to your reply.

 

**Edit to suit**

 

Remember, don’t sign the letter.

[cerberusalert]

Basically the above is a 'prove it' letter, it is up to Lowlife to prove a debt exists & that they are authorised to collect.

[andie_303]

as there is no signed agreement do I take it they can't prove it?

[cerberusalert]

They would have some difficulty without the aid of 'photoshop' hence not signing any communication with them

[andie_303]

Thanks cerbrus great advice as ever

[IdaInFife]

just to answer question but mobile's are not covered under cca.

 

Ida x

[andie_303]

Thanks Ida - but they would still have to prove this debt by the means of a signed contract is that correct? or am I wrong there?

[cerberusalert]

They don't have to provide an agreement, they have to prove you owe a debt. If they didn't, any Tom Dick or Harry could send demands to people saying 'pay up or else' & not need to prove anything.

[andie_303]

so how can they prove the debt?

 

Would they be able to say the payments she had maintained on this contract for 5 years previously prove the debt to be hers?

 

The thing is it is her contract (i think) - the amount is excessive but that I assume is Lowells inflated fees.

 

I was kinda hoping that without a signed agreement they could not really do anything but as it's not subject to a CCA I guess that is wrong and she will have to either set up a payment plan or ignore them.

 

I think it a bit funny the account was disconnected in 2007 and yet lowells only say they bought the account in March 2009.

 

I think - but not 100% sure there is no default notice been given on this account

[cerberusalert]

Lowell are famous for trying to collect unenforceable debts, just wait & see what their response is to the letter in post #2

 

A similar thread to yours http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/192683-02-lowell.html

Edited April 12, 2009 by cerberusalert

[andie_303]

Hi - no response from them (YET!!)

 

However in reading another thread - I learn that the NOA they sent is bull as it comes from Lowell (compete with their data matrix) and as it was sent alongside a demand for payment and not registered post this is not a legal NOA is that correct?

 

And if so and they come around again how do I tell my friend to handle that one??

 

Thanks

[andie_303]

OK update today - after hearing nothing for weeks my friend recieves a letter today dated 3rd May saying that thay recieved her recent correspondance, i guess by recent they mean over a month ago! and it says they are looking into the concerns arising and as they are currently very busy they would hope to respond within the next 8 weeks but cannot give a fixed time scale!

 

Love it!!!!

[andie_303]

update here - today my friend has recieved a letter from Red (not lowells anymore but I believe they are one and the same) saying they are the owners of the debt and have included a screen print showing a balance on an account - there is no details of what the account is or who it belongs to and they write that where the account is shown as closed and a £0 balance that this is just when the account was taken off the active system.

 

Now to me that is not proof of anything - where should she go now?

[cerberusalert]

Red are part of Lowlife, they're the collection arm.

 

Just resend the letter in post #2 again adding that what they've provided does not prove the existance of any debt.

[andie_303]

Long story short....

 

Lowell pursuing an O2 debt - no paperwork to back up their demand for £500 - except of course for their excel spreadsheet sent from red with no customer details.

 

I have disputed this is proof - gone back and forward with them since July 2009 then basically just started to ignore them as they contest that their excel spreadsheet is proof.

 

In march I had a "once off offer" of a 30% lump sum reduction or the whole thing in installments of £25 a month.

 

Again ignored it - that signals to me that they have no proof of anything - come down a bit further and maybe we'll talk....

 

Then a month later a letter from Mackenzie Hall the usual "call us to make payments and stop this going to court blah blah blah"

 

fired off the in dispute email and left it at that.

 

Today a letter from Meritforce doorstep collection (funny though their email address is the same as Muck Halls!) and funnily enough guess what the £500 has now reached £780....

 

So I have fired off another indispute email and the reminder that I do not live at the address they are corresponding with that they are more than aware of considering the letters come addressed c/o!!!!

 

So now my thinking - I have a default on my account (o2 logged that not Lowell) - can I make an offer to Lowell just to go away or should I just ride it out knowing they actually have no paperwork?

 

I'm thinking I offer them say £100 in a Without prejudice letter in full and final settlement.

 

Does anyone have any experience of settling with lowell?

 

Also could I ask them to rectify the default as part of the settlement or would that be down to O2? (as a side point I did get a NOA)

 

Any advice would be great.

[Pinky69]

They won't remove the default - all they will do is mark it "satisfied" and that is just as bad as a default. If they are offering discount and passing it on to the bottom of the cesspit - Muck Hall - then you can be assured they don't have the required proof of the debt and no on can add anything to the debt unless it is in the original contract or ordered by a court. I would continue to ignore them and wouldn't offer any of them a penny. I would ask for the removal of the default on the grounds of accuracy ie they cannot prove what you are supposed to owe.

[Duffers Mum]

I'm with Pinky...but its very hard to get defaults removed (I know I've got 3 ) I wouldn't offer them anything! They have recently done a search on my credit file..I reckon I'll be hearing from them soon, probably for my goldfish account which Cabot couldn't provide a CCA on!

 

Sit tight...Muck Hall are easy to get shot of!

[andie_303]

Thanks Pinky and Duffers

 

It's the only default I have so it's just a niggle in the backside!!

 

I assume I would have to contact O2 for removal of the default on grounds of no proof as they were the ones that put it on??

 

My only concern really is that Lowell were writing to an address I don't live at but is that of a member of my family.

 

Lowell accepted it was not my address but have obviously passed it on - Muck Hall and Meritforce obviously know it's not mine as their letters come c/o - surely they shouldn't be doing that!

 

Do Meritforce actually do doorstep visits or is it just a front? Them writing to me c/o I could care less but them actually turning up on a family members doorstep I do have an issue with.

 

Going to email them tonight saying they must be aware I do not live at that address hence the c/o and the homeowner will report them to OFT for continuing to use their address when it has been accepted that it is not mine. Will also throw in the serious dispute letter as a reminder that so far Lowell, Red, Hampton Legal and now Muck Hall have failed to provide proof.

[andie_303]

Thanks Pinky and Duffers

 

It's the only default I have so it's just a niggle in the backside!!

 

I assume I would have to contact O2 for removal of the default on grounds of no proof as they were the ones that put it on??

 

My only concern really is that Lowell were writing to an address I don't live at but is that of a member of my family.

 

Lowell accepted it was not my address but have obviously passed it on - Muck Hall and Meritforce obviously know it's not mine as their letters come c/o - surely they shouldn't be doing that!

 

Do Meritforce actually do doorstep visits or is it just a front? Them writing to me c/o I could care less but them actually turning up on a family members doorstep I do have an issue with.

 

Going to email them tonight saying they must be aware I do not live at that address hence the c/o and the homeowner will report them to OFT for continuing to use their address when it has been accepted that it is not mine. Will also throw in the serious dispute letter as a reminder that so far Lowell, Red, Hampton Legal and now Muck Hall have failed to provide proof.

[Brigadier 1JCS]

Merit Force Has letters signed DOORSTOP COLLECTIONS send him a cheap one

COD and tell him to goXXXXX

[unclebulgaria67]

 

I assume I would have to contact O2 for removal of the default on grounds of no proof as they were the ones that put it on??

 

My only concern really is that Lowell were writing to an address I don't live at but is that of a member of my family.

 

Lowell accepted it was not my address but have obviously passed it on - Muck Hall and Meritforce obviously know it's not mine as their letters come c/o - surely they shouldn't be doing that!

 

Do Meritforce actually do doorstep visits or is it just a front? Them writing to me c/o I could care less but them actually turning up on a family members doorstep I do have an issue with.

 

Going to email them tonight saying they must be aware I do not live at that address hence the c/o and the homeowner will report them to OFT for continuing to use their address when it has been accepted that it is not mine. Will also throw in the serious dispute letter as a reminder that so far Lowell, Red, Hampton Legal and now Muck Hall have failed to provide proof.

 

Re O2 and the default. They do have to write to you advising of the default and how you can stop this being applied, before they applied it. You can register a complaint with 02 asking them for details of what was sent to you. Make a subject access request if necessary. You could ramp up the complaint to OFCOM or Otelo, whoever deals with their complaints, if this is necessary. Debt companies should stop collection activity if you have a complaint ongoing.

 

In regard to Mucky Hall and Meritforce, I had correspondence sent to my address regarding a relatives debts. Actually they were the only ones that did a doorstep visit, even though they were told that the person holding the debt did not live at the address. They even phoned neighbours to see if my relative lived at my address. Mucky Hall don't give a sh** about the OFT rules, even though they received an official warning from them. My advice if you don't want to pi** off your relative, is to write to Mertiforce the letter in the templates folder about not wanting doorstep visit, only correspondence in writing.

[ODC]

Muck Hall own MeritFARCE. You can rest assured if the Leeds Losers passed it to these muppets that its totally UNENFORCEABLE and best ignored. Under no circumstances sent them a penny. Remember they only paid about 10% of the face value.

[pmhcfc]

Muck Hall own MeritFARCE. You can rest assured if the Leeds Losers passed it to these muppets that its totally UNENFORCEABLE and best ignored. Under no circumstances sent them a penny. Remember they only paid about 10% of the face value.

 

Not that it's important to this particular thread, but DCA's only pay as much as 10% when the white data is current, up to date and the agreements are all in place...When white data is lacking and agreements are missing or incomplete, they'll pay somewhere between 1 and 6% of the debt's face value...

 

I think it's ironic that certain companies scream like babies, insisting they should be entitled to have more white data (information) be made readily available on any given person but when other types of white data is available on them, they don't seem to think we (the public) are entitled to know about it... Pot, Kettle and all that.

[freethemice]

I would personally attack them with a section 10 letter to stop processing your data and remove adverse marks on your credit history.

If they don't comply a complaint to the information commissionaire is free. Granted it is unlikely to achieve anything but while they investigate the dca's should leave you well alone.

http://www.liverpool.gov.uk/Images/tcm21-118702.pdf