Suspended form work Help Please.

[stagger lee]

I work in a shop and get a staff discount, I bought some games using my staff discount which does not breach any company policy, I then traded in the games which does not breach any company policy.

 

Now the problem is that the amount i got for trading in the games was more than i paid. I took store credit for the items and then spent the credit.

 

I have just been suspended pending a disciplinary hearing, I admitted doing what i did because i was not told i could not do it, i thought it was just a loophole. Other people have done the same as me but they have not been interviewed yet.

 

I really just want to know if i am likely to be sacked for gross misconduct. I Followed both company policies in buying then trading in and by doing this i have apparently breached another policy of not buying things for personal gain.

 

I was told if i had taken the games home and then come back it would not be as serious, but because i did it straight away i am being told it is gross misconduct becuase of the intent to gain from it. I dont understand how it can be ok to do it the next day but not at the same time.

 

Could someone please help me with any information as to where i stand and the likely outcome of any diciplinary.

 

Thanks

[skonk]

To buy something with your discount, then to trade it in straight after, is for personal gain. I think if you had taken the games home, that would be seen as being able to play/test them, then decide to trade them in the next day as they weren't suitable. I can see no problem with that.

 

You've already admitted to doing it. You could always try and plead ignorance, say other people have done it, and you wasn't aware you were doing anything wrong, but not sure how they'd accept that.

[stagger lee]

thanks for the reply,

 

i have said i did it and i didnt think it was wrong just a loophole, the manager knew about it and didn't warn us not to do it. and i didnt take any money out of the company and someone else has done it too and they have been suspended also. i just wanted to know if we are likely to be sacked over it. No previous things like this have happened before.

 

Thanks again

[BubbleCat]

Your suspension has to be with pay.

 

There should be no pre-determined outcome of the meeting, as the meeting is for you to give your version of events. If it has already been told you the outcome, what is the point of the meeting?

 

You have been honest and this is the best policy.

 

Have you had a letter of invite to the formal meeting? This gives you your rights, reasons for the meeting, the policy you are supposed to have breached and a copy of the companies disciplinary policy? if not, then this has to be sent to you and give you at least 3 - 4 days notice.

 

It maybe as Skonk says, you have to rely on your ignorance of what has occurred and just followed others lead.

[stagger lee]

I had a meeting today and then an hour later i was called back and told i am suspended with pay, i didn't get a letter.

 

I was told i will be phoned soon to come back for a disciplinary.

 

So i just have to wait now and se what happens. I cant see them sacking 2 of us but stranger things have happened

[BubbleCat]

Ah - the manager knew about this loophole - This looks like a trap to me, to see who would fall for it.

 

There is an argument, as a senior member of staff was fully aware of this, then why was it not communicated and the conditions of the company discount adjusted accordingly?

 

You should not get sacked because of this because both the employer and employee have fallen foul.

 

you will more than likely get a written warning which will stay on your file for 12 months.

[stagger lee]

it wasn't a trap as such, but i was honest and played ignorant and told them i didn't find the loophole i was told about it. The other person who was suspended found it and told me. I even offered to pay back the difference but i was told that will be a matter for the disciplinary.

 

Like i said i followed 2 company procedures which has made me break a third procedure, but the argument was there was intent.

[BubbleCat]

Oh dear - looks like your company have tripped themselves up.

 

The meeting you would have been called in for today should have been what is known as a prelim investigative, and is acceptable. You can be suspended from this.

 

The suspension is for a full investigation to be held into what happened, based on how the company protocol and from your version of events.

 

You should get a letter saying how long the investigation is likely to take and that you will be called back for interview again once this is complete.

 

From what you are saying they have held a disciplinary meeting?

 

Were your rights outlined to you at the beginning of the meeting?

[stagger lee]

Yeah i was told i can have a witness, then i was asked questions and i answered and signed the sheet after each question.

 

Then i was told i am suspended on full pay pending a disciplinary.

 

It does seem to me like it has not happened before so they need to put a stop to it now by disciplining us and change the policy. but my only worry is getting sacked.

 

I guess i can't do much but wait. Thanks for you time bubblecat it is appreciated

[BubbleCat]

No worries - So the meeting today was not a disciplinary, just a prelim.

 

When you are called back, this meeting will be your disciplinary and the outcome of the investigation.

 

Prior to the meeting you should receive what I said in #8.

 

Take in a union rep (if you have one), if not a trusted colleague.

 

As much as it is a worry, try not to.

 

Post back up when you have your letter of invite and we can see how we can play from there..

[stagger lee]

ok will do, thanks again

[knowhow]

If you need to contact a solicitor about your employment rights, I know **Mod edit** are good at putting people in contact with a good solicitor in their local area to give legal advice. Hope this helps.

 

 

Link to commercial site removed.

[kfdh1962]

your written invitation to a disciplinary hearing once the investigation is completed should state your right to be accompanied etc, should include copies of all evidence to allow you to prepare yoru defence, and should state the most serious possible outcome of the meeting. so if dismissal is an option it should say so. if you letter only states "a possible outcome of the hearing is a warning" then they will not be looking to dismiss,

[diskmandave]

Further to the last, the company are obliged to state

how they are treating the alleged contravention, for

example, misconduct, serious misconduct or gross misconduct.

 

Good luck.

[stagger lee]

I am sure i was told gross misconduct when i was suspended.

[stagger lee]

I have just got a letter saying i am suspended for an allegation of gross misconduct for completing purchases and refunds in order to make financial gain by the use of staff discount.

 

i know it is being pedantic but I didn't get a refund , i followed the company procedure and i got store credit which i then spend straight away. I took no actual money only a giftcatcard. I did not leave the shop with any financial gain.

 

I am provided with a staff card which would mean that the card gives me financial gain , wouldn't it ? all i got was a discount of the difference in price of what i paid and what i traded it in for.

 

Am i wrong here or do they have a water tight case ?

[becka]

Of course you got financial Gain ... just not physical cold hard currency

 

Look at it this way ... you bought a game for £10 using your discount, you traded it in for £15 store credit which you then spent at the store on a second game

 

you therefore got at least a £5 gain - and the company lost first of all on selling the game at a discount to you rather than for full price to a normal customer then again on the second game which I presume you again used your store discount to buy?

 

i quite often will buy preowned games and then trade them in once I have played them and sometimes even make a profit on them - but I don't work for the shop I am essentially doing out of profit ... and I don't do it 10 minutes after buying it

 

You must have known you were going to profit out of it or you wouldn't have done the transactions on the same day

Edited March 26, 2009 by becka
spelling!

[BubbleCat]

Gross Misconduct can be instant dismissal, which would then be left for you to appeal.

 

Other than the letter confirming your suspension and you admitting what happened, have they sent you any of the evidence? Legally they are obliged to provide this to you so you are able to defend yourself.

 

As they have suspended and looking into the facts and evidence, I would look upon this as them giving consideration to your case.

 

You know you have another meeting coming up with them. Before the meeting, make sure you understand what actual evidence they have. If you feel you do not understand the evidence and want more time to evaluate, re-arrange the meeting. Do not go into the meeting on your own. Who ever you take in with you, they can ask questions, but are not able to answer on your behalf.

[stagger lee]

Can i take anyone into the meeting or does it have to be someone from work ?

 

Also the allegation is completing purchases and refunds in order to make financial gain by the use of staff discount.

 

Is trading a game in and getting a giftcard a refund ?

 

The companies own returns policy states refunds will only be given for faulty goods, otherwise you can exchange items for a giftcard. To me this can't be a refund, but maybe i am wrong. Also there are no written rules regarding trading in and what i did as being against company policy only the financial gain part.

Edited March 27, 2009 by stagger lee

[skonk]

If it's not counted as a refund, I'm sure it will be counted as a monetary gain. Think about it, you've gained something for nothing. You've bought a game on your discount, traded it in for the full trade in price, and accepted the trade-in, in the shape of a giftcard. I don't think it would matter that it wasn't cash.

 

Unfortunately, if you had taken it home that night and brought it back the next day, the trade-in would've been acceptable, I should think. As I've stated above, pleading ignorance may be an option. You could try to convince them that after buying the game, you realised you didn't want it, and traded it in. Only problem there is, they will ask why you didn't refund it and get your money back. Why did you trade it in and get the extra monetary value.

 

I must say as well, where you say it can't be a refund because..."The companies own returns policy states refunds will only be given for faulty goods, otherwise you can exchange items for a giftcard" You're not returning it for a refund. You're trading it in. Two totally different things.

 

I hope it goes well for you. The fact you say the manager was aware of it happening may help, if you can prove that he knew, and ask why he didn't make others aware that you couldn't do it.

 

 

edit: Just re=read the OP and noticed that..>"Now the problem is that the amount i got for trading in the games was more than i paid. I took store credit for the items and then spent the credit." I'm afraid that does look like intent. I musn't have read the first post properly, and thought it was only one game we were taking about. I've no idea how much the games were originally, but I'm giving an example of, say, 3 games at full price, minus store discount, comes to about 70-75 quid. Trade in price comes to 100-120 quid. Store credit then used to buy a second hand xbox360 for around £120. I think this would be seen as an abuse of staff privilidges(sp?) and intent to gain monetary value.

Edited March 28, 2009 by skonk
more to add

[stagger lee]

The manager has said on record he knew about it as we had talked about it, he claimed he thought i was just curious and didn't think i would do it.

 

Sorry for going on and asking what might seem like stupid questions but i am trying to get it straight in my head. All the comments are appreciated.

 

Ok accepting what i did was gross misconduct, is it fair or legal that if i had done the same thing the day after it would be acceptable when no written or verbal rules were given for the amount of time there has to be between buying and trading a game in ? Can an action be gross misconduct one day but not the next ?

[marblesmudgy]

Sadly you were technically in the wrong, you gained from the transaction. However, if your line manager knew about this and encouraged it and also didnt explain the company policy to you. Then you might have recourse for him to be hauled in the office. You sound a little young. I would spend a little time thinking about what was said to you about this proceedure and write it down, dates, times if you can remember.

I take it your co-worker has also had the same problem. Sadly they might want to make an example of you, but being honest and owning up to you and stating how sorry you are.

 

The good thing is they havent sacked you yet! which means they are lookign into your case. I'd get some legal advice from acas, which is a union.

[skonk]

The fact that the manager didn't tell you not to do it may be helpful. You could argue that you thought the manager was telling you about it, and you just assumed it was ok to do. Only problem there is, the manager will no doubt deny this.

 

Did you actually witness anyone else do this before you did? If you did, you could always say that you thought it was ok, as you have seen others do it, and was unaware that it was actual wrong to do.

[stagger lee]

Yes someone else has done the same thing and he has also been suspended, Also the staff who put the transactions through obviously did not know that this was not allowed or they would have refused to do it.

 

My main points are I didn't know it was not allowed, I did it in full view without lying or hiding anything , the manager knew about it and never said it would be gross misconduct, someone else has done it and the staff who did the transactions on the tills did not know it was not allowed.

[stagger lee]

I am now into my 4th week of being suspended and i have not heard anything at all.

 

Is this normal ?