Littlewoods and Great universal

[WOOD73]

My wife opened an account with littlewoods a year ago, and all has been well and payments made on time until I lost my job in july, after ringing and explaining the situation they said basically it wasnt there problem.

my question is this - when the account was opened they posted out 2 copies of a cca, 1 to keep and one to sign and return, we still have both as it she never got round to returning or signing it. she applied for the account online so never signed anything.

where do we stand as regards unenforcable agreement?

I would rather deal with this before dca's get involved.

thanks

[berrylover]

send them a cca letter and see.

[KER]

I'd say the 2006 regulations come into play, as it was opened online, I think you've deemed acceptance of the T&C's when clicking the "accept" button.

 

Still, CCA them, but I think that's what they'll come back with.

[WOOD73]

I was hoping I could have used this to buy us some time and avoid further charges for late/insufficient payment etc. while we get back on our feet.

[SURFBOY]

If you have charges on the account you can put them into dispute.

When did you open the account? Was it after april 2007?

[WOOD73]

no there are no charges yet, and it was opened august 2007

[WOOD73]

I have an account with both littlewoods and great universal, problem is

greta universal is slightly in arrears, however when I tried to place a small order with littlewoods, it was rejected because gus was in arrears.

there is no arrears on lw at all, in fact its ahead.

 

I would have thought these are completely seperate accounts with seperate agreements, and one could not be enforced with the other, if you know what I mean.

 

are they right to be able to do this? and where does it say it in the t+c's?

[hillards]

Any credit agreement, catalogues included, can be reported to the credit reference agencies, who keep a running 'score' of how you operate an account.

 

If your credit scoring shows that you are late paying one account, another company could use that info to refuse credit with them, despite you having an existing account with them.

 

Not really a debt collection issue though.

[MARTIN3030]

Will move to general consumer issues.

[bazak1]

a lot of these catalogue companies are owned by the same mother company. if you default on one, your bad debt news is passed around quicker than gossip in eastenders.

[buzby]

I thought Littlewoods and Great Universal were sister companies, and all mart of the BMOC (British Mail Order Corporation), so their computers systems are linked. I believe the claim is assists 'responsible lending'.

[bazak1]

too right Buzby.

Yes it does assist responsible lending. the only problem our OP has is that it also causes major problems when you are in debt to one, but still trying to order from the other. Which of course is what it is supposed to do.

[buzby]

I just discovered today, as part of a story in the financial section of mu Sunday paper, that Shop Direct took over from the BMOC and actually own several mail order brands, in effect making them a single entity.

[bazak1]

Makes you wonder why they bother with all the different catalogues, really doesnt it.

Why not just have one, and when you've upset your credit with them, you'll only have one to worry about.

One thing about these mail order companies is that although someone may not pay for a couple of months etc, provided you pull your finger out and contact them and then pay the debt, they will continue to let you order after. It's not as if they stop you altogether, unless you've really, really upset them.

[hillards]

When I was a child, my mother had a catalogue that she ordered stuff from. There was one time she received an order that wasn't what she ordered, so she sent it back. Had the drivers signature for collecting it and everything. They wrote to say thay had not received it, so she would have to pay.

 

Obviously she kicked up a fuss, my dad took a photo of the driver receipt to send, catalogue claimed that was for a different return, although this was her one and only! So, she closed the account and refused to pay the balance. Told them straight what a set of idiots (was in Italian so I'm not sure) they were and not to bother her again.

 

2 weeks later there's a new catalogue in the kitchen, different company, she had been doorstepped by a local canvesser. She was over the moon as she said the prices were cheaper and they could deliver sooner.

 

I pulled the old one out of the cupboard, she hadn't thrown it away. Once you got past a different picture on the cover they were identical, page for page, reference number, price, the lot!

 

She wasn't happy! She found the cardboard box it had come in, packed it back up, enclosed a covering letter, and bunged it in a pile at the post office the next day - no stamp!

 

A week later, they sent a letter to 'write off' the fudged return, but no apology. It's a machine, not a business. They have no feelings for their customers. These days she would have failed the credit check before they would even consider a new catalogue.

[WOOD73]

I sent a cca request to littlewoods on behalf of my wife, I have today received a reply, it says they cannot locate a copy of an executed agreement, but for information they have enclosed a copy of a current agreement.

Now I know that they cannot enforce but where do I go from here?

The account was opened nov 2001, and as I recall the original balance was around £150, my wife has made quite a lot of payments over the years, not regularly but payments none the less, thing is the balance is now 238-61.

can I claim back the charges they have been applying, which I'm sure will amount more than the balance, and what's the best way to go about it?

[WOOD73]

Interestingly, I also received this morning, a letter from NDR for the same account informing us they are about to issue a statutory default notice and register with a cra.

[PGH7447]

no agreement then send ndr the account in dispute letter, that will stop them trying to SD you

 

send littlewoods a sar for all statements to see what has been going on with the account

[IdaInFife]

As PGH has advised, send the SAR and that way you will get a list of charges etc

 

here is a letter you can send NDR:

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

Dear Sir or Madam,

Account number: XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX

I must admit that I am rather bemused as to why this account has been passed to yourselves, as it is in dispute with the **original creditor/DCA** and has been since DATE 2007. Not only is this a breach of OFT collection guidelines, but also in breach of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and Data Protection Act 1998

My last letter from **original creditor/DCA** was DATE and intimated that my complaint would be resolved on **DATE**, this obviously hasn’t happened. As **original creditor/DCA** are now in default of my Consumer Credit Act request, OFT Collection Guidelines, *Subject Access request and have also breached *s10 Data Protection Act request , I consider this account to be in SERIOUS DISPUTE.

As you are aware while my Consumer Credit Act request remains in default enforcement action is NOT permitted, under s127 this constitutes a complete defence at law.

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

Now I would respectfully suggest that this account is returned to the **original creditor/DCA** for resolution of these defaults and breaches, as **New DCA** cannot lawfully pursue any enforcement activities.

If **New DCA** chooses to ignore my dispute and attempt enforcement, I will initiate legal action and file reports with the appropriate authorities, including, but not limited to, Trading Standards, Office of Fair Trading, Information Commissioners Office, Financial Ombudsman Service and possible court action.

After taking advice, I am of the opinion that any continued pursuit is in violation of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40 as well as breaching a number of the OFT Collection Guidelines

I hope that this will not be necessary and an acceptable solution can be accomplished.

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter. I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

Yours faithfully,

 

 

Ida x

[guzzleguts]

I had the same response from them, keep the letter safe that says there is no agreement and use a photocopy of it when dealing with the DCA'S.

 

I got a letter from littlewoods saying they wont chase me for the debt anymore, because it was not enforceble. Thought id won but the DCA crawled out of the woodwork. sent them a strong letter with copy of the littlewoods letter. and they returned the account back to littlewoods and apologised to me.

 

Thats where i am now waiting for the next DCA to contact me, if they do il start complaining to relevant governing bodies.

 

Good luck GG

[WOOD73]

So they just keep trying it on even though they know they cant do anything about it?

I will definately send sar, as i'm sure we have paid much more than the balance is now, let alone the original amount!

[guzzleguts]

Thing is you can send a SAR but whats the point there is no CCA no debt, they can threaten you as much as they want but can not do anything without an agreement.

 

They will probably try you had the goods and the morality of it, but as a DISTRICT JUDGE said to me in court when i stated that a DCA didnt stop hassling me, she said this a court of law morality and principles dont come into it.

 

GG

[IdaInFife]

But the op wants to claim back charges and that is why they have been advised of the Subject Access Request. A lot of caggers want to pay what they have ordered/used but want unlawful charges back. This way the op is doing as they want.

 

Morality will not come into law but some people have morals and it depends on each individual what they are happy with

 

Ida x

[guzzleguts]

Sorry IDA

 

I wasnt saying to try to avoid paying debt,its just with the dealings i have had with them they always refer to the agreement for charges, but if they have no agreement how can they refer to it.

 

And about the morals, i was just referring to a dressing down i got from a judge when i mentioned them in court.

 

I wonder where the morality of the DCA'S that phone morning noon and night, over a debt they didnt even know for sure was mine.

 

sorry to go on

 

GG

[IdaInFife]

No problem, just putting the other side