Mbna 'agreement' - now threat of legal action

[underdog13]

No worries about going off topic, GG:)

 

I know a little about DNs, but I am no expert - which thread are you refering to, so we can take a look?

 

X20 would probably be the best one to advise, I would have thought; have you read the thread a tale of a dodgy DN?

[guzzleguts]

Help needed with ford credit (1 2 3)

 

Thanks for that pg 2, there seems to be a letter saying they already sent a DN and it expires on the 3rd feb, then on the 9th feb a DN turns up which runs out tomorrow.

 

Yes ive read x20's thread about 10 times, i think mine is very similar, just not that up on DN'S to be sure.

 

Any help you can give me will be great.

 

GG

[AA99]

Glad we got that one sorted, couldn't live with the guilt.

 

Yes the CPR route does seem to be generating a lot of discussion at the mo.

 

I'd like to go the CPR route also because I keep getting replies to CCA requests that say they don't need to supply agreements because of law this and reg.that, but cannot seem to find a finalised template letter for a CPR 31.16/31.14 letter. The very long thread pertaining to that keeps saying that it is being worked on and then everyone else is jibber jabbering. I honestly feel like sitting back and waiting for all my creditors to take me to court first. The 100 phone calls a month are ****ing us all off right now and wrecking my family but at least they are recorded:-x

[deepdebt]

Hi AA99,

 

I came across this a while back:-

 

Civil Procedure Rules part 31.16 Request

Dear Sirs

 

Account number

 

I write with regards to the above account with your organisation.

 

I respectfully request that you provide me by return a copy of the credit agreement which bears my signature. I require this as i have reason to believe that there may be discrepancies within the agreement which may leave it improperly executed.Additionally i require the underwriting sheet or other document showing any commissions paid to you by the broker or by you to the broker

 

(If you have any other reasons why you need the agreement such as mis-selling of PPI Add it here)

 

obviously if the agreement is improperly executed i would be entitled to ask the court to consider the agreement and make a declaration of the rights of parties to the agreement.

 

I must stress this request is NOT made pursuant to section 78 Consumer Credit Act 1974 but is made pursuant to the Civil Procedure Rules ( Pre action protocols and Part 31.16) and therefore unsigned copy will not suffice, only a copy of the original contract in its unaltered form will suffice in these circumstances

 

Please confirm if you still hold a copy of my signed agreement and that you will provide me with this document.

 

I do not view this as an unreasonable request given that by supplying the document which i have asked for it will allow me to assess if my case has merit and will help to resolve matters possibly without the need to involve the court and will undoubtedly save costs on both sides

 

I look forward to your reply and would ask for a response by 4pm on XXXX Date ( Give 21 days to respond)

 

Regards

 

 

 

xxxxxxxxxxx

 

And this:-

 

OK....well if you want to defend this then you need to acknowledge the claim within 14 days of the date on the claim form stating that you wish to 'defend' then you get a further 14+3 days in which to submit a defence...interesting that they haven't mentioned in the POC's the fact that you had defaulted on the account....

 

You could send this by recorded delivery to the opposing solicitors

 

Dear Sir,

 

Re: (Claimant's name) v (Your name) Case No:

 

CPR 31.14 Request

 

On (date) I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the (Name) County Court.

 

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest all of your claim.

 

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of [each of the following / the] document(s) mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

1 the agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

 

2 the default notice

 

Your client should ensure compliance with its CPR 31 duties and ensure that the documents I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

 

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

 

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

 

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.

 

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

 

I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you.

 

yours faithfully

They both need to be spell checked etc but its a start.

lmk what you think.

[lexis200]

AA, one of my BOS threads has a CPR request letter on it that x20 fiddled with for me - might be worth a look?

 

I think it's the one with the longer title, not the 'take two' one, but don't quote me on it:)

 

Lexis:)

[AA99]

Thanks a lot you guys:) Am beginning to feel more confident about using the CPR route now, although it'll probably be ignored again:-x or bounced back with some other statute or reg. or lie Had news today from the ICO re my MBNA Acc.1 so going to bounce over there just now.

 

Thanks again:)

[underdog13]

Whatever their response, at least it will show the judge you tried every reasonable step:)

 

There is a school of thought that CPR will push them into finding the agreement and give them plenty of time to do so, ie, not within the constraints of a court order. However, given the amount of extra time the courts usually allow them, I think it's better to find out now where you stand rather than have them come up with an agreement at the eleventh hour as you go into court.

 

Just my personal opinion, but I'd rather know exactly what I'm up against now, so I can act accordingly.

[lexis200]

Exactly what I feel underdog - except BOS were sent it in November and have not only ignored the original request, but also two letters reminding them of it.

 

Not sure exactly what you have to do to make the ba****s actually do what they are required to. They just don't give a damn about the law, which is seriously unfair given that they are happy to take us to task the moment things aren't going as they should.

[pompeyfaith]

I sent a CPR PART 18 request to MBNA via Optima Legal on the 16th July 2008 got a letter from Optima Legal on the 30th July headed WITHOUT PREJUDICE saying that the request has been forwarded to MBNA for them to action got the requested docs on the 30th December 2008 some two weeks before summary judgement.

 

A law unto themselves.

 

PF

[indebtuptomyeyes]

Hi to all on this thread, just like to say i have had back all 3 of my mbna cca requests, only after default letters on all of them, and all mine are copy and paste jobs with the t&c, they can't even photo copy straight. I know that on the origional application form there was nothing on the back.

[underdog13]

Can you post them up (minus personal details), indebtuptomyeyes?

 

Do you have any photocopies of the original forms you returned to them? This would be the easiest way to prove their (alleged) fraud - alas, most of us never thought to do this....

[almond]

hi i have posted this reply from mbna in my thread but not recieved any answers so hoped it ok to post here

does anybody have any ideas of what to reply

 

hi

i need help my accounts are now in default letters will be sent monday

i recieved a letter today about one of the cards and sorry i can't scan it

so this is what it says

notice of sums in arrears

then it goes on to say we are required by the consumer credit act 1974

to issue you with a notice of sums in arrears when you have not paid us the last two months payments

i assume you will all know this letter and what i am wondering is it a default letter ?

I made jan payment but it was short and never paid this month since i am cca which i have had no reply, what i can't understand is if they say in the letter they are required to inform me under the 1974cca why are'nt they required to supply me with my cca ?

am i doing the right thing just sending them the default letter or do i need to reply to this letter as well

thanks

[underdog13]

It's ok Almond, this notice of arrears letter is standard. Amendments to the act require creds to send this notice of default sums (arrears) when you miss payments. No need to reply to it. Also, don't confuse it with a default notice; totally different things.

 

MBNA usually take ages to send agreements out - sit tight and wait and see what you get:)

[indebtuptomyeyes]

All 3 of my mbna agreements sent after default letters. All have had a terms and conditions photocopied to the back. The origionals were blank and t&c which are different to those now on the back were on seperate pages not linked to the signed form.

 

 

 

[indebtuptomyeyes]

 

 

[indebtuptomyeyes]

The financial terms on the backs are not what they sent with the application form, this as been copied from what came with the card. On the front of the application form it says before signing read para 11. Well on the reverse there is no para 11, para 11 is on the seperate t&c which is not linked to the application form.

[angel_1]

The financial terms on the backs are not what they sent with the application form, this as been copied from what came with the card. On the front of the application form it says before signing read para 11. Well on the reverse there is no para 11, para 11 is on the seperate t&c which is not linked to the application form.

 

 

hiya indebtuptomyeyes,,,,that is very interesting, i think pt2537 is looking at a case at the moment that there is subject indication ref the rear and you may be able to help there plus help the rest of us who we all believe those scraps of paper purtaining to be from the rear are not.

 

will be back to link up something for you to get in touch with pt2537 - the post number 118 on the below thread is where i responded to pt2537 - you might want to private message him with your thoughts, it might just help the case or at least might help the rest of us eventually somehow

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mbna/184041-all-mbna-caggers-fight.html

 

keep us posted cheers laters angel x

Edited March 2, 2009 by angel_1

[indebtuptomyeyes]

Hi only too happy to help, i am moving abroad in 2 months and not coming back, so i am not bothered about mbna or any other lender chasing me. So i can follow this through without any fear of reposession or a bad credit file. Will leave this fight with someone else to deal with on my behalf, but at the moment i going to be there worst nightmare for while i am here. I am going to send a letter to them asking them outright why they have copied the t&c on the reverese of my contract. will keep everyone posted. Really need one thread to keep to so everyone knows where to look.

[underdog13]

You're more than welcome to post on here, indebtuptomyeyes:)

[Elgrand]

Hi Underdog & indebtuptomyeyes

 

The first application posted by indebtuptomyeyes is almost identical to mine. Can I ask you, if it says fold here, at the top and bottom.

On mine, they have suggested that the terms were on the back, but have no way of linking them, unless of course they have the originals. It is very interesting that you are so clear in saying, there was nothing on the back.

I know underdog and others have looked at my thread, but if you get some time, could you look at post's 3 & 33 Elgrand vs MBNA and you can perhaps compare what was sent to you against mine.

 

Thanks in advance and thank you Underdog, hope it's ok to have asked.

 

Elg.

[underdog13]

It's absolutely fine to ask, Elgrand:)

[guzzleguts]

Hi underdog

 

Could you or anyone else answer me this, MBNA defaulted me about 2 yrs ago for one of my accounts, ive sent them an SAR which they sort of complied with in late dec, but they didnt supply any DN.

 

I am right in saying that if a default is registered at the CRA they would of had to serve a DN on me.

 

Be cause ive received a letter with them stating they dont serve DN's unless they are starting litigation.

 

Sorry for butting in on your thread again.

 

Thanks GG

[underdog13]

No worries about butting in, GG:)

 

I'm no expert on DNs, but as far as I'm aware, a DN should be served before they terminate the account - did you receive a termination notice?

 

MBNA are fond of claiming that they only have to send a letter stating their intention to default you - the general consensus seems to be that this is bullplop.

[underdog13]

Just remembered; a friend of mine received 3 DNs from MBNA, but the accounts were sold on to DCAs and not brought to litigation by MBNA, so that refutes that particular porkie pie:D

[guzzleguts]

No letter nothing, what makes me laugh is that they think they dont have to issue a DN until they feel like taking you to court, but can and have registered it with the CRA.

 

And they have sent me a letter stating so, they obviously think english law doesnt effect them, but the letter is good reading:).

 

GG