Debt collection - code of conduct query

[give_me_it_back]

Hi everyone.

 

I am currently being persued on behalf of Halifax by Counselling Intermediary Services for an old mortgage debt (the house was repossesed)

 

The CIS (debt collection company working on behalf of Halifax) wrote to me asking for details of my financial situation. I responded, and gave them all the information they requested.

 

They wrote back saying that I am expected to pay £50 per month. It is obvious from my information that I cannot afford this. I offered them £12.

 

My question is - is there an act or code of conduct I can check and direct them to? Surely what they are doing by INSISTING I pay £50 poer month is unlawful? If I make an offer - surely this should be accepted?

 

They are disputing my outgoings and say, that - as I do not live alone - they are not a true reflection. They are, and what does it matter to them who I live with? The debt has nothing to do with this other party.

 

Thanks very much for a speedy reply - I am a little stressed...

[jo5ephedward5]

how old is the debt...?

 

i think they have to take your offer seriously...whats the alternative - if they take you to court the court will ask you for outgoing etc and will accept what you offer...also have you had a letter from Halifax to confirm they have passed the debt on?

 

I'm having issues with CapQuest collections over a Halifax debt - if you havent send this to request the information before you start paying someone without the correct documentation! - halifax dont want to supply it to me as they say its not their prob now as passed on...but they passed it on without the documents!

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re: Account No/Reference No: XXXXXXXX

 

I do not acknowledge ANY debt to your company. I require you to supply the following documentation before I will correspond further on this matter.

 

1. You must supply me with a true copy of the alleged agreement you refer to. This is my right under your obligation to supply a copy of the agreement under the legislation contained within s.78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 (s.77 (1) for fixed sum credit) - your obligation also extends to providing a statement of account. I enclose a £1 postal order in payment of the statutory fee, PO Serial Number xxxxx.

 

2. A signed true copy of the deed of assignment of the above referenced agreement that you allege exists.

 

3. You are notified that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not under S189 of the CCA 1974.

 

Non-compliance with my request is a criminal offence under the above Act and will result in a report being submitted to the relevant statutory authorities.

 

As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.

 

Take note at this stage, that any legal action you may contemplate will be both vigorously defended and contested.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

XXX

 

include a postal order for £1 to cover their costs and wait and see what comes back, then ask them to re-consider your offer.

 

Good luck

[give_me_it_back]

Fantastic response! Thanks very much! I was paying this debt up to approx 5 years ago, but it lapsed when I moved. Since is is mortgage debt, apparently they have 11 years to persue me!

[give_me_it_back]

Except... I just found this:

 

Guardian Unlimited Money | ZZZ Front | Capital letters

 

Which clearly says that Halifax signed an agreement in 1999 not to chase mortgage debt that was any older than 6 years... I moved out of that house and ceased the mortgage approximately 1991! Also says in that article that Counselling Intermediary Services (CIS) are Halifax's collection lot (although that is NOT who I was paying up until 5 years ago..)

 

Letter will be posted registered tomorrow.

 

IF I do need to take this further, who is/are the relevant statutory authorities that I report CIS to? Has anyone any experience of having done this?

 

Thanks very much.

[give_me_it_back]

bump..?

[jo5ephedward5]

i still say send the letter - they connot chase the debt without the correct documentation and they cannot add interest or charges whilst its in dispute (which it will be as soon as they get the letter, which of course will be sent recorded to be signed for!) - they also cant add 'bad' marks to your credit file untill the matter is resolved.

 

i have a halifax debt being chased by CapQuest debt collection - they cant give me the paperwork that i requested 2 months ago...i say send the letter and post again when you have a response - its irrelevant how long they can chase this for if they are not entitled in the 1st place! (offen the case with collection agencies as debts are brought so cheap the bank cant be bothered to dig out the paper work to supportt it as not cost effective...no doc's no debt)

 

keep us posted

[give_me_it_back]

Great! Thanks! I sent it today (recorded, with the £1 postal order inside).

 

So... IF they can't prove that I owe THEM the money (ie by getting the correct documentation from Halifax and proving it to me), and IF Halifax don't come up with the information, it's possible that the debt would be written off, as I don't actually owe THEM the money..? And, until such time as proof is gained, I send no money at all?

 

 

Assuming they a) don't get back with the paperwork - who are the relevant statutory authorities that I report CIS to, or is it best to do nothing at all in this case?

 

 

and b) if they do get back and they can prove that I owe them money (via Halifax), I assume I still stick to my guns and offer to pay them what I can afford, and not give in to their demands?

 

Is that right?

 

Thanks so much for your help, and good luck with your ongoing situation.

[jo5ephedward5]

Great! Thanks! I sent it today (recorded, with the £1 postal order inside).

 

So... IF they can't prove that I owe THEM the money (ie by getting the correct documentation from Halifax and proving it to me), and IF Halifax don't come up with the information, it's possible that the debt would be written off, as I don't actually owe THEM the money..? And, until such time as proof is gained, I send no money at all?

 

 

Assuming they a) don't get back with the paperwork - who are the relevant statutory authorities that I report CIS to, or is it best to do nothing at all in this case?

 

 

and b) if they do get back and they can prove that I owe them money (via Halifax), I assume I still stick to my guns and offer to pay them what I can afford, and not give in to their demands?

 

Is that right?

 

Thanks so much for your help, and good luck with your ongoing situation.

 

Correct!

 

you can report them if they dont comply to Trading Standards and the OFT.

 

dont give into them without all 3 things you have asked for in your letter - and as before even if they do prove it they have to take you roffer seriously as if not the court will ask what you can afford and accept it - they like to add pressure to get what they can out of people - most stop at very little...untill you send this letter - if they have proof tehy will treat you better with you rnew found knowledge and if they cant provide proof they go very quiet! (and usually set someone else after you to which you do the same thing again!)

 

also add a line to the letter to only communicate via letter - it will stop them calling - by still calling they are commiting an offense and you can report them!

 

finally send it recorded delivery and only wait 30days for a response...after that its not your problem untill they proove other wise...even partial documentation isnt enough...after all they cant take you to court without it!

[give_me_it_back]

Great! Thanks so much - I feel better already! Doesn't debt make you feel powerless...?

 

I probably made a big mistake by responding to their first letter and admitting I owe Halifax, but, that, I suppose, is my point - I owe Halifax - not them?!

 

Hopefully I haven't made things worse for myself by admitting that I owe at all.. have I?

[jo5ephedward5]

it used to make me feel powerless...then i found this site!

 

I had admitted it to CapQuest too...i had been paying them - then i found out about it from this site...

 

On Grumbletext.. Capquest Debt Recovery- Re "" posted by lry at 15:33 11/07/06 ...the owe me around £1000 - they havent given up, they told me they had given debt back to halifax, i contacted halifax and they said no chance - we gave it them so we dont have to deal with it (it also says partial settled on my cred file)CapQuest then carried on contact as usual (after saying it was handed back) with frequent letters (including yesterday if you read back through todays post)they are still dealing with it and i will use small claims court (moneyclaim) as its under £120 to sue them for less than 5K - problem is, i recon they will file a defense and show up with the documents if i try it! which is hardly fair after they wouldnt provide me with them! but i think thats how they work! unfortunaly i see them winning if they do this and i'll be £120 down and still have to pay them...what are peoples thoughts? Grumbletext, UK consumer complaints about Capquest Debt Recovery - post your opinions, complaints, comments online or via SMS about Capquest Debt Recovery Capquest Debt Recovery complaint, Capquest Debt Recovery review, Capquest Debt Recovery opinion, Capquest Debt Recovery consumer review, Capquest Debt Recovery consumer complaint, Capquest Debt Recovery customer complaint, Capquest Debt Recovery consumer opinion, Capquest Debt Recovery customer opinion, Grumbletext

 

i have the same user name so search the site and read my story.

 

all i did was add a short line to say i have re-assesed my sitaltion and no longer admit liability for the said debt...then wrote what i suggested before.

 

now i'm about to start small claims court agaiinst them for my money back lol.

 

glad post has been of use (feel free to click the sclaes and rate it)

 

keep us posted on progress

[give_me_it_back]

Thank you so much. Do you think it makes any difference that my debt owed is nearly 30k, or does it all tend to follow the same process..?

[give_me_it_back]

I just read that post and it sure makes fascinating reading! This Capquest lost sound truly awful! Do you think this bunch that are writing to me (Counselling Intermediary Services) are much the same, or should I be worried....?

[JonCris]

Hi everyone.

 

I am currently being persued on behalf of Halifax by Counselling Intermediary Services for an old mortgage debt (the house was repossesed)

 

The CIS (debt collection company working on behalf of Halifax) wrote to me asking for details of my financial situation. I responded, and gave them all the information they requested.

 

They wrote back saying that I am expected to pay £50 per month. It is obvious from my information that I cannot afford this. I offered them £12.

 

My question is - is there an act or code of conduct I can check and direct them to? Surely what they are doing by INSISTING I pay £50 poer month is unlawful? If I make an offer - surely this should be accepted?

 

They are disputing my outgoings and say, that - as I do not live alone - they are not a true reflection. They are, and what does it matter to them who I live with? The debt has nothing to do with this other party.

 

Thanks very much for a speedy reply - I am a little stressed...

 

OFT have an agreed "Code of Conduct" which creditors & their agents are expected to adhere too

[elsinore]

Seems sort of rude to interrupt you two guys.

 

This is a model thread, two sensible people exchanging info and gaining knowledge. Well done jo5, you have looked after g-m-i-b really well.

 

I haven't been able to find much on C.I.S. Where do they hang out jo5? Wouldn't be the same address as Halifax by any chance? If they are a DCA then they are very discreet!!

 

Elsinore

[jo5ephedward5]

Seems sort of rude to interrupt you two guys.

 

This is a model thread, two sensible people exchanging info and gaining knowledge. Well done jo5, you have looked after g-m-i-b really well.

 

I haven't been able to find much on C.I.S. Where do they hang out jo5? Wouldn't be the same address as Halifax by any chance? If they are a DCA then they are very discreet!!

 

Elsinore

 

 

mmm i also couldnt find any info on CIS - dont think its anything to do with CapQuest but seem to be a nasty bunch! - arnt they all!?

 

Thank you so much. Do you think it makes any difference that my debt owed is nearly 30k, or does it all tend to follow the same process..?

 

Nope - doesnt matter if its £3 or £300000 if they dont have proof they shouldnt collect it - i'm not saying they wont find the stuff but be very wary that what they send is correct as in the past i have had lots of aledged info send me and it looks fake if you as me or is missing stuff like senders job title, contact number dates of assinment and often they come in black non-franked envelopes - a bank always includes all this info and have you ever known Halifax to post to you in a blank envelope with no return address printed into the flap on the back...i didnt think so!

 

Wouldn't be the same address as Halifax by any chance?

 

wouldnt put it past them CapQuest have been using 3 different solicitors and all have CapQuests address and phone numbers lol. the solcitors do exisit but when i managed to track down them for real i found they only sent teh letters out taht capquest sent them...they didnt even write them!

[give_me_it_back]

I couldn't agree with you more, Elsinore - Jo5 has been an incredible support and help - in times of great worry too. You're quite right about CIS being extremely discreet, which, as you say, seems a bit odd for a debt collection agency..?! Is it frowned upon if CIS ARE Halifax, or would this not simply strengthen their case against persuing me for the money..?

 

Up until a few years ago, I was paying back another firm (not Halifax) I can't remember the name... but it must have been a debt collection agency, so - to my laymans eye - it looks as though the debt has been sold twice...?

 

Thanks JonCris. I will check the OFT site and look for this code of conduct also.

[give_me_it_back]

This link: Guardian Unlimited Money | ZZZ Front | Capital letters

 

says that Halifax admit that CIS are their 'agent'... What does that mean?

 

CIS address is:

Dean Park House

8 – 10 Dean Park Crescent

Bournemouth

Dorset

BH1 1HL

[give_me_it_back]

They have a website:

 

:: welcome to CISonline ::

 

To be honest - I still don't have a clue what they do!! Lots of descriptive words and corporate library photographs, and debt collection is not mentioned anywhere! Drug screening is!!??

 

Their registered address is 3 Durrant Road, Bournemouth BH2 6NE and their registration number is 3026629 (and they display the 'member of CSA logo)

 

Is that any help...?

[sequenci]

the consumer credit act on regulates loans up to £25,000 or £15,000 before 1.5.98 so i'm not sure where you stand with regard to the £1 postal order if the amount borrowed is above this.

 

i have a few quick questions.

 

when the property was sold, were you in touch with the lender afterwards? (within 6 years)

 

when did you last ackowledge the debt or make payment?

 

with mortgages the limitation is 12 years for the capital and 6 years for the interest.

[jo5ephedward5]

I couldn't agree with you more, Elsinore - Jo5 has been an incredible support and help - in times of great worry too. You're quite right about CIS being extremely discreet, which, as you say, seems a bit odd for a debt collection agency..?! Is it frowned upon if CIS ARE Halifax, or would this not simply strengthen their case against persuing me for the money..?

 

Up until a few years ago, I was paying back another firm (not Halifax) I can't remember the name... but it must have been a debt collection agency, so - to my laymans eye - it looks as though the debt has been sold twice...?

 

Thanks JonCris. I will check the OFT site and look for this code of conduct also.

 

 

they can be sold as many times as they like, once its been sold its not thebanks problem, if teh 1st collector cant get any joy they will cut their losses and sell it to at least make something - they know they cant take you to court without teh correct paperwork and if they did have it you'd only be asked to pay what you can afford by the court without proof of income and outgoings (just what you fill in on the sheet)

 

My debt was passed o 4 debt collection firms over the years - i only responded o CapQuest because their letters were on solicitors headed paper...which i know know was fraudulent!

 

I know your still full of 'what ifs' and tho you can sleep at night its probably still not 100% comfortably, but believe me IF they prove it you can offer even less than before and get your payments accepted - i'm sure of it

[barracad]

Halifax signed an agreement in 1999 not to chase mortgage debt that was any older than 6 years... I moved out of that house and ceased the mortgage approximately 1991!

 

The 6 years means 6 years without you making any payments or acknowledging the debt within the 6 years.

 

who I was paying up until 5 years ago

 

According to this you were making payments 5 years ago so they are quite entitled to chase it.

 

Did you send the letter suggested earlier in the thread? I don't think it fulfils your needs so if you haven't already sent it I would send the following:

 

1 High Street,

Newtown,

Kent

R21 4RH

 

June 28, 2006

The Loan Company

Company House,

Church Street,

Newtown,

Kent,

R1 7HG

 

WITHOUT PREJUDICE

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re:− 4563210025897412

 

Thank you for your letter concerning the above account. We do not acknowledge the claim. Please supply us with a full breakdown of the balance claimed under the above account.

 

In order for us to deal with the matters you raised, we should be grateful if you would supply us with answers to the following points:

• when did the arrears begin?
  
• when was the last payment made on the account?
  
• when was any Possession Order given?
  
• when was the house sold?
  
• what valuations were made on the property before the sale?
  
• what costs were involved in maintaining the property during the period between the repossession and the sale?
  
• how was the house marketed and sold and at what price?
  
• what costs were involved in selling the property?
  
• has a claim been made against the indemnity insurance and how much was recovered?
  
• how has interest been calculated from the start of the arrears?

Please supply us with a full breakdown of the balance claimed under the above account. We look forward to receiving your reply as soon as possible.

 

Yours faithfully

Mr A N Other

[give_me_it_back]

Thanks very much. I have sent the letter now. The house was sold probably about 91, and I don't think I ever received any paperwork from Halifax at all (although I'm really not sure..)

[give_me_it_back]

Also - although I THINK I was paying up until about 5 years ago, it wasn't to the Halifax, or, indeed, CIS (unless they changed their name).

 

Thanks for your letter Barracad - I think these are relevant questions also. I'll see what comes back from CIS from my first letter.

 

Does anyone have any comments on CIS being Halifax's 'agents', and what the implications of this are?

 

I suppose I could ring Halifax, but I don't really want to rock the boat... Actually - now that I say that... I DO remember ringing them way back in the 90's, not long after the repossession, and they had NO NOTE of me at all.... I actually went in to the branch that my account was with, and they had no details at all...

[jo5ephedward5]

The 6 years means 6 years without you making any payments or acknowledging the debt within the 6 years.

 

 

 

According to this you were making payments 5 years ago so they are quite entitled to chase it.

 

Did you send the letter suggested earlier in the thread? I don't think it fulfils your needs so if you haven't already sent it I would send the following:

 

 

the trouble i see with this letter is as it may have no legal baring, they would probably just ignore it...the one i laid out always gets a repose even if its YOUR ACCOUNT IS ON HOLD - by all means add other stuff to it but you MUST add the following:

 

1. You must supply me with a true copy of the alleged agreement you refer to. This is my right under your obligation to supply a copy of the agreement under the legislation contained within s.78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 (s.77 (1) for fixed sum credit) - your obligation also extends to providing a statement of account. I enclose a £1 postal order in payment of the statutory fee, PO Serial Number xxxxx.

 

2. A signed true copy of the deed of assignment of the above referenced agreement that you allege exists.

 

3. You are notified that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not under S189 of the CCA 1974.

 

Without it they think your just curious and dont know your rights...

 

Guess we'll have to wiat and see what comes back now!

[sequenci]

again i would very much doubt the agreement is regulated by the consumer credit act if it was a mortgage, unless of course the amount borrowed was less than £15,000.