Debt collection - code of conduct query

[MARTIN3030]

NCO Group > Services > Finance & Accounting > First Party Collections

 

NCO are specialists in calling on behalf of another company.

It is possible they are acting as an agent.

Its not unknown for a dca to farm out collections to more than one other agent.

[MARTIN3030]

I would contact this firm and tell them that the account is already in dispute.

Tell them you dont want any more calls at home,and legislation is in place to put a stop to it if they continue to do so.

[give_me_it_back]

Thanks Martin. IF I hear back from CIS, I will ask them to prove evidence of ownership and to send me a copy of the default issued by the Halifax with my £1...

 

With regards to NCO, I am loathe to call them (it actually has taken me 4 days to work out the telephone number left!! They also didn't ask for anyone by name. Just said "Hello. Please call" The guy had a really creepy voice - and I thought it must be a wind up as the number ended in 666!) IF they write to me, I assume they will say what this 'debt' is... So, do you think CIS have SOLD all the debt to NCO (and therefore I won't hear fromm CIS again), or do you think they have asked them to assist in recovering the debt..? Do they do that?

[JonCris]

Also write a letter of complaint to the original creditor CIS as they are still liable for the conduct of any DCA recovering wht was their original debt.

 

No matter what they might claim by giving it to multiple DCA's (even if it's one after the other) they are in breach of the OFT guidelines

[give_me_it_back]

Thanks JonCris. Are there any template letters for this? Although I think I'll wait to hear in writing from any one of them first. The letter I sent did state that I would only respond to letters...

 

So am I right in thinking that CIS (who aren't the very original creditor - that was Halifax, who sold it to another DCA, who then sold it to CIS) are actually able to instruct SEVERAL DCA's to ALL chase me for the same debt!?

 

I'm going to be scared to answer the phone or open letters... It's horrible!

[MARTIN3030]

You usually find that if you send the cca request to a dca who is not the owner.......they are quick to return the file.........and your pound ha ha.

 

In the case of NCO I am not so sure as it looks like they are just assisting with recovery and I dont think would hold any paperwork for your account.

 

In the case of your default with the Halifax.......when the banks sell the debt then the defaults have to be re-issued by the new owner.

There is a requirement to show this on credit files,and the new owner should also inform you that they now own the debt.

[MARTIN3030]

There are 2 other issues here that are the subject of much discussion at the moment.

 

1. Your agreement with the bank automatically ended when they closed your account

 

2. If you did agree to your data being passed to third parties.......then that agreement would cease to be in force after your account was closed/sold.

[give_me_it_back]

My account was closed approximately 1991... When I went in to the Halifax back then, they had no record of me. I certainly have never received any information to say the debt was sold (..twice!)

 

I'm really confused... CIS haven't 'returned my file' (although would I know this..?) or my £1. Their 'month to respond' time is up on 23rd August, although I did receive a copy of the council of mortgage lenders code booklet with a letter saying they would be in touch in due course. This call from NCO was out of the blue... So CIS can actually ask NCO to help them by calling me? That smacks of harassment to me!

 

Any ideas what I should do in anticipation now..? I SO don't want to be caught with my 'trousers down'... I just would like to know what to expect next... A MIB at my door??!!!

[give_me_it_back]

AND my number is ex directory so I don't know how they got my number!

[JonCris]

Thanks JonCris. Are there any template letters for this? Although I think I'll wait to hear in writing from any one of them first. The letter I sent did state that I would only respond to letters...

 

So am I right in thinking that CIS (who aren't the very original creditor - that was Halifax, who sold it to another DCA, who then sold it to CIS) are actually able to instruct SEVERAL DCA's to ALL chase me for the same debt!?

 

I'm going to be scared to answer the phone or open letters... It's horrible!

 

If they give it to multiple DCA's they are guilty of harrasment.

 

No what usually happens is that it keeps being sold for less each time it changes hands.

 

The previous advice to write a DPA (use the template on here). The one that starts "I do not acknowledge the debt with your company" etc) to anyone of them which contacts you is a very good idea. They are not allowed to continue to chase you as the debt is in dispute & quite often they give up at the 1st sign of organised resistence.

 

Don't be scared you'll get loads of support from the others on this site many of whom have been in your position. After a little while you will feel empowered & impatient to open your mail in the mornings. You really will be chopping at the bit to give something back to the money lenders..

 

Couple of things. Pick up the phone (you don't want to be wondering all the time) DO NOT GIVE YOUR NAME (after all they are phoning you & could be ID bandits) ask who it is, demand their full name not just a christian name, which company they are from, & the purpose of their call. If they then try & hide behind the DPAct refuse and stop further conversation hang up. If they answer all of your questions & it's not someone you want to speak to tell them your the housekeeper/butler & everyones gone to the Carrib on their twice annual hols leaving you on your own & do they know what it's like to be left on your own with all that booze in the house & their big flashy cars in the garage & not able to touch either.

 

Last but not least & if you don't want to do the above contact BT and ask for "choose to refuse" (you can self block 10 numbers) plus "anonymous phone number blocker" which automaticly blocks anon callers. It'll cost you about £10 per month & it's worth every penny

[JonCris]

My account was closed approximately 1991... When I went in to the Halifax back then, they had no record of me. I certainly have never received any information to say the debt was sold (..twice!)

 

I'm really confused... CIS haven't 'returned my file' (although would I know this..?) or my £1. Their 'month to respond' time is up on 23rd August, although I did receive a copy of the council of mortgage lenders code booklet with a letter saying they would be in touch in due course. This call from NCO was out of the blue... So CIS can actually ask NCO to help them by calling me? That smacks of harassment to me!

 

Any ideas what I should do in anticipation now..? I SO don't want to be caught with my 'trousers down'... I just would like to know what to expect next... A MIB at my door??!!!

 

Sounds to me as though they have passed it on in the hope you wouldn't notice as they don't have the necc. docs in order to comply with your CCA request. However you MUST continue with the application & if they don't comply you MUST proceed to court to enforce your demand

[MARTIN3030]

Dont forget its 12 working days followed then by 1 month.

I am awaiting info from 2 cca apps.......both have expired the 12 days but not the month.

 

It is a very long time to wait.

[give_me_it_back]

It is .. a very long time indeed...

 

JonCris, are you saying that I need to push CIS to provide documentation of the ownership of debt, and, if they don't provide it, take them to court?! I haven't paid THEM any money (so have nothing to claim back from them). I would just bne happyfor them all to go away and stop bothering me... If Halifax contacted me directly, it would be different however.

 

If I hear nothing after the 12 days and 1 month, can I not just put it all to the back of my mind and forget about them? I don't see why I need to go to court..?

[give_me_it_back]

JonCris - I just got your earlier message which was very helpful! Thanks. Funnily enough, I JUST ordered BT 'choose to refuse' and 'withheld number barr' services half an hour ago!

 

Still a bit unsure about the court thing though..

 

Thanks very much!

[MARTIN3030]

If you are concerned about the debt then you should address it.

If there are malpractices by the dcas or laws have been broken in the recovery attempts,then again if the law supports action then you should address it.

 

 

A number of people seem to think that debts should not be repaid in any event and I must stress that this site does not advocate evasive action whereby there is a legitimate debt.

Where debts are seen to be legitimate,there should be attempts made to repay any genuine amounts and there is lots of advice for people who want to do that.

Since all cases are different,it should not be assumed therefore that it is possible to have legitimate debts removed / dealt with in the hope that a cca request will turn up a negative.

[give_me_it_back]

I didn't think I had ever given the impression I was trying to 'dodge debt' Martin... I have been 'addressing this debt since 1991, and have paid a sizeable chunk. I am NOT a dishonest person, and I am certainly not someone who 'thinks that debts should not be repaid in any event'. To be honest (as I always am!) I do resent that comment.

 

I do not understand the law enough to know about 'malpractices of DCA's', which is my reason for asking for assistance. I am here for help.

 

My understanding is (and please correct me if I am wrong)

 

a) I owe the Halifax. No-one else, unless they can prove otherwise.

 

b) It appears my debt has been sold. Twice. Now possibly for a third time. I have NEVER received any paperwork to confirm this. This is unlawful.

 

c) If I receive legal paperwork proving that a certain company does own the debt, I AM liable to pay THEM.

 

d) If I do not receive such paperwork, I am not (and, Martin - this does not mean that I don't acknowlege that I owe Halifax)

 

I certainly do not intend to hand over money to anyone who happens to come along and ask for it. Surely this site is about arming ourselves with knowledge and protecting ourselves?

[MARTIN3030]

I understand what you are saying,and the post was not directed at you.

Its just that a few newbies may start to get the wrong ideas..........also the site has a moral duty to be seen as operating in a manner which whilst giving clear advice,is not seen to be condoning some people who are not prepared to properly address their debts.

 

Nothing more .......nothing less........hope no one is offended,just thought it needed some clarification.

 

[give_me_it_back]

Thanks for that Martin.

 

Am I right in my understandings..? And, JonCris, Please tell me I don't have to drag anyone else to court..?! I've got Barclaycard in one room and Abbey in another!!! It's just a wee court!

[MARTIN3030]

Certainly your original agreement was with Halifax.

It is they who were instrumental in issuing the default.

They may claim they have sold the debt and as such bear no responsibility but you are aware that they do indeed.

[MARTIN3030]

There is a structured plan of action you can take.

JC I think has given the jist of that.

If you try and approach everyone who comes at you for repayment you will go round in circles.

I share your frustrations here as I am in the same position (trying to isolate the debt to 1 scource)

They have a few days to respond before I take action.

(2 have already passed files back )

My case is 100% penalty charges.

 

 

The cca request is,in principle a good way of getting the information.

If your case goes back to 1991,then it is extremely remote that any dca will have your paperwork.

These days the debts are passed on with file info on a cd rom.

In the old days this did not happen.

[give_me_it_back]

So should I contact Halifax and ask if they have sold the debt on? If they say they bear no responsibilty, then it is up to the new debtors to prove that they own the debt, and I pay them once they have provided proof?

 

If this is the case, I am assuming the debt was sold for a lot less than I owe. Do I ask for a legal form of the documentation which proves how much the DCA bought the debt for, and is THAT the amount I owe..? And, if they can't come up with this 'documentation', what do I do then...?

 

Sorry to be so thick!

[MARTIN3030]

Yes contact with the Halifax should confirm this.

They do have a responsibility to inform you that they have sold the debt.

You are quite right in thinking that they would have paid peanuts for it but as far as I know they have no lrgal obligation to tell you how much.

They will tell you this is commercially sensitive information.

 

Some dcas will buy a debt for a quick offload by offering a generous settlement deal with a one off payment.

Judgement and defaults still stand tho and are only marked as satisfied in the credit file.

 

So its up to you.

First port of call .....Halifax.....second the owner of the debt.......these two apart you should not need to have dealings with anyone else.

see how you go

[give_me_it_back]

Thanks very much. Should I phone Halifax or write, and what is the correct thing to say?

[MARTIN3030]

I would write since its a formal request.

Recently there have been cases where banks have not been complying with cca requests for closed accounts.

They are saying as the agreement is finished,they have no responsibility to provide you with anything.

Secondly they have not been providing the info under a sar request claiming S7.3. that there were no clear requests for this info.

 

Therefore I would suggest you make a sar and specify that you want all information relating to the sale of your account details of third parties that have rec your information etc.

 

They have to comply

[give_me_it_back]

Great. Thanks so much for this. This is what I will do. Should I write to head office?