Chandlers & Council Tax

[turnedworm]

This is my first post on this forum - I have been having a good look over the last couple of weeks and looks to be doing a great job!

 

Anyway I am after some advice following a visit from a Chandlers bailiff this morning. My wife was just going out to work this lunchtime and was greeted by said chap. I had told her only the other day not to let anybody in the house - I had phoned my council last week to be told I couldn't make a payment plan and that the matter had been handed over to Chandlers. I asked how I could get the council to take the liability back but was told that there was no way they would!

 

 

This bailiff posted a letter through the door. The letter outlined the liability plus their £24.50 charge for making the call. They are being careful at the moment as they are being watched by the council - more about that on another thread.

 

The letter asks that I make payment to the office "by return" or the bailiff shall call back to distrain goods. It also gives the mobile number of the bailiff. So I called the guy for a chat. I said that I wanted to pay in installments of £150pcm but he said he would have to do a WPO and take £100 up front to start such a plan. He also said the fees for this are based on a percentage of the total liability and would be c.£65. I said I wasn't happy to "secure" the liability and asked if there was any way my council might take back the liability and he said no.

 

At this point I told him about a visit from a different bailff (also from Chandlers as well) who visited me at my workshop re. business rates. He demanded c£7/8k saying that there was a lorry coming to empty my workshop unless I paid there and then - this visit was the first contact from Chandlers! I managed to pay using family members and their credit cards! The response to this from the bailiff today is that business rates are handled in a different way. Is this the case?

 

During our phonecall he also mentioned my wife's car - I said, truthfully, that there is outstanding finance on it.

 

The reason for my thread here is to ask what to do to get it taken on by the council again. I think the main problem is that they use a third party company to collect Council Tax and Busines Rates. Suggestions are very welcome as I have told him I shall phone him tomorrow afternoon. I have seen the bailiff's name mentioned on other threads on this forum.

 

the visit re. business rates was over a year ago when they weren't being "watched" by the council.

[turnedworm]

I have a few questions about bailiff activity and the collection of Business Rates. I had a visit last year by a very large chap (bigger than me and I'm 6ft4 and 17st!) demanding c£7/8k and that there was a lorry coming to take my machinery from the workshop! On this occasion I managed to pay in full with the help of family. My business had been struggling causing major financial problems.

 

I have contacted my local council as they are looking into the methods and activities of bailiffs following many complaints of "bullying". I have agreed to present the above experience to the scrutiny group as someone on the receiving end. They have already accompanied the bailiffs on their rounds - so unlikey to see any bullying me thinks!

 

The council are conducting this scrutiny group to improve their "code of practice" re. bailiff action. I have requested a copy of the current code from the council but have been fobbed off twice now!

 

The reason for this thread is to ask a couple of questions -

 

 

1. Does the bailiff company have to write in advance of a visit?

 

2. Can a bailiff just turn up (inside my open workshop) and take away my machines on a first visit? This would have meant 3 people would instantly lose their jobs.

 

3. When the bailiff called I was away at an appointment - can the above be done in my absence- I am a sole trader and an emplyee dealt with the matter?

 

Any answers to these questions would be very usefull as I am talking to the group in the middle part of this week.

 

 

Many thanks..

 

Worm

[jadzia]

Hi,

Absolutely,under NO circumstances allow this idiot entry to your property,sorry to state the obvious,but as you have read,these guys are devious.

Someone will be along to give you more detailed advice,but i would say,make your payments direct to the council,and ignore the bailiff,he will give debt back to the council if he gets no joy from you,just make sure all windows and doors are locked at all times,and dont open door to him.

Can i ask which la you are in?,as i know they say they are monitoring in my la,where they employ chandlers and also bristow and sutor

[turnedworm]

I think you, like me, are North Somerset?

 

I have spoken to my friend the tax man today and he owes me a fair bit - this will pay off the C Tax in one go. I have no intention of letting this guy in!

 

Many thanks for your post!

 

Regards

 

Worm

 

(Not my real name!)

[jadzia]

Yes,north somerset!!,what a joke,they didnt care less when i was having trouble with the bailiff,i will believe they are making changes when i see it,not that i particularly want to see another bailiff,but if i did at least now i would be better equipt to deal with them!!

And as for the name,i knew someone who went by it for a long time,i was always a bit afraid to ask why!!

[alexteh]

Ask for a copy of the code of practice as a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request and they have to respond within 40 days

[turnedworm]

North Somerset are looking into the complaints re. bailiffs. Our friend yesterday went by the book. They were accompanied by council staff the other week!

 

As for the name - turned worm - I think it wasthe name of a Two Ronnies sketch many years ago.

[turnedworm]

Is that from the council or the bailiff company. As I understand it the council should have their own code of practice and "rules". My council have capped the % rate for credit card payments to 2.5% - not the 3.8% the bailiff company state!

 

I shall report back when I have more info.

[PizzaMaker]

The reason for this thread is to ask a couple of questions -

 

 

1. Does the bailiff company have to write in advance of a visit?

 

On Business rate and Council Tax , i do not think they obliged to write to you. The council have written to you at least twice and then the court issues a liability order against you.

 

2. Can a bailiff just turn up (inside my open workshop) and take away my machines on a first visit? This would have meant 3 people would instantly lose their jobs.

 

Yes, i believe the baliff can do this. To prevent this a Walking Possession would be signed to allow you to keep your good on the premises. Are the machines yours to own?

 

3. When the bailiff called I was away at an appointment - can the above be done in my absence- I am a sole trader and an emplyee dealt with the matter?

 

As with my answer above, yes.

 

Worm

 

Hope this help. Who is the baliff company?

[PizzaMaker]

Is that from the council or the bailiff company. As I understand it the council should have their own code of practice and "rules". My council have capped the % rate for credit card payments to 2.5% - not the 3.8% the bailiff company state!

 

I shall report back when I have more info.

 

I got charged 3.5% by Newlyns by paying on a debit card over the phone.

[turnedworm]

Hope this help. Who is the baliff company?

 

 

The company is Chandlers.

 

No walking possession was offered during the visit.

 

I understood that goods used for business activity couldn't be taken - most of the machnes were owned at the time. The second hand value of them would be £50 - but maybe £12k in a forced sale.

[turnedworm]

I got charged 3.5% by Newlyns by paying on a debit card over the phone.

 

At least Dick Turpin had the decency to wear a mask. And on a debit card!:o

[Billyhunt]

Agree with PizzaMakers comments.

 

For business rates unlike other debts, work equipment, tools etc can be taken. However if they are not owned by you for example on hp or being leased then they cannot be seized.

 

The bailiff cannot force entry but if peaceful entry has been gained, you are not present and a walking possession agreement is required, then this only has to be signed by someone who is in 'apparent authority' over the goods, which is a vague term I appreciate. Therefore, a forman, manager etc could in theory sign the agreement but someone else may have more information regarding this as this is only my interpretation of this point. Hope this helps.

[Billyhunt]

Also meant to mention, bailiffs are not restricted to your place of work to recover outstanding business rates so its important to be aware. They can seize vehicles owned by you and seize goods from anywhere you have them.

[turnedworm]

So really it's better to keep your business rates up to date rather than your Council Tax - if circumstances dictate.

 

With the visit in question the tactics used by the bailiff were far higher handed than a bailiff collecting PAYE on another occasion.

 

Touch wood business is on the up again and the order book is full - this should get my finances sorted over the next 6 months or so! Then its onto the bank charges!!

[Billyhunt]

Glad your business is on the up.

 

I suppose paying business rates before council tax would possibly be the best option if you were forced to choose because if you lose your ability to earn money, losing machinary etc, then you are in a far worse position than just owing money for council tax.

 

Good luck with the bank charges.

[Goldlady]

MP's are usually very interested in local councils trying to destroy industry. I have more than once involved my local MP when things have been a bit tough.

[turnedworm]

I suppose the other thing is to only lease business machinery, vans, etc - not that any business plans to have such major financial problems. Still even easier to move production overseas and cut staff.

 

I just find it very surprising that someone can turn up and effectively close the business down. I should also point out that when the bailiff turned up last year - he just wanted the money - no mention of Walking Possession. I asked about paying in 3 installments (weekly) and this was rejected by him. Maybe he was thinking about the charges he could put my way - lorry for machinery, storage and auction costs etc - an extra £3-4k plus I should think!

 

As I said earlier I am seeing the council later today to talk to the scrutiny group about my experiences.

[tomtubby]

I am very worried about the number of posts that there are to say that someone should pay the council direct. For this reason I am posting the advice that I provided a few days ago on another thread.

 

I will answer the query on here later this morning.

 

 

 

PS: I thought North Somerset were using Ross & Roberts Bailiffs ?

................

 

 

 

As a business, we spend all day dealing ONLY with bailiff problems referred to us by either our website or from police forces and advice bureau's around the country. (We have even had referrals from the Office of Fair Trading!!!)

 

By far the main complaints that we receive about bailiffs concern the threats and intimidation and their excessive fees and charges.

 

Putting aside for one moment the above, we have to constantly talk to councils and bailiffs also as the debtor has paid his council tax to bailiff's INSTEAD of paying the bailiff company.

 

Once a Council has been granted a Liability Order, this then enables the council to PASS the debt to a bailiff to enforce. The bailiff is then entitled to charge his fees ON TOP of the debt owed. If however you then decide to pay the council direct......many councils then credit the payment TO THE CURRENT YEAR'S ACCOUNT. There is nothing to stop them doing this.....and we have seen this happens SO MANY TIMES. Therefore if you, or anyone else for that matter recommonds paying the council online INSTEAD of the bailiffs you should insist that they first get the agreement of the council to do this or at least to get a receipt that shows clearly that the payment has been correctly credited to the right year.

 

A way to avoid this is to send the payment instead to the bailiff company with a letter to say that you are enclosing the payment in Full & Final Settlement of the Liability Order and their fees and include with the payment either an amount of £24.50 plus vat for a first visit or an additional amount of £18.00 plus vat if they have visited twice.

 

Enclose with your payment a letter to say why you are paying the sum enclosed and copy it to the council.

[turnedworm]

That seems good advise. The Liabiliity Order is for this year CT. Just off to see the council now!

 

 

N. Som use Bristow & Sutor and Chandlers

 

 

 

Worm

[tomtubby]

Could you let me have the name of the bailiff that attended so that I can see if he appears on our database. Please only provide the name by private message only not on the public forum.

[becka]

The main reason people pay the council direct is because the Bailiffs won't agree to a remotely reasonable payment plan without a WPO. And not many people are in the position to send the full amount to the bailiffs in the timeframe they request it in (by tomorrow)

I tried sending a payment plan to them with an initial chq (800 outstanding ... could pay £200 a month) and they returned it to me saying it wasn't acceptable. Sent it to the council with a letter advising it was for arrears and they cashed it

 

And yes ... it was Chandlers and N Somerset council

[turnedworm]

Tom you've already PM'd me on this one - without naming names he could have a well known brother called Frank??!!!

[sillygirl1]

How did this go - the more the councils realise people do want to pay but can''t manage large amounts and don't want to deal with additional fees charged by bailiffs the better.

[tomtubby]

My mistake. I have done so many searches over the past few days.