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    • Please see my comments in orange within your post.
    • no i meant the email from parcel2go which email address did they send it from and who signed it off (whos name is at the bottom)
    • I understand confusion with this thread.  I tried to keep threads separate because there have been so many angles.    But a team member merged them all.  This is why it's hard to keep track. This forum exists to help little people fight injustice - however big or small.  Im here to try get a decent resolution. Not to give in to the ' big boys'. My "matter' became complicated 'matters' simply because a lender refused to sell a property. What can I say?  I'll try in a nutshell to give an overview: There's a long lease property. I originally bought it short lease with a s.146 on it from original freeholder.  I had no concerns. So lender should have been able to sell a well-maintained lovely long lease property.  The property was great. The issue is not the property.  Economy, sdlt increases, elections, brexit, covid, interest hikes etc didn't help.  The issue is simple - the lender wanted to keep it.   House or Flat? Before repo I offered to clear my loan.  I was a bit short and lender refused.  They said (recorded) they thought the property was worth much more and they were happy to keep accruing interest (in their benefit) until it reached a point where they felt they could repo and still easily quickly sell to get their £s back.  This was a mistake.  The market was (and is) tough.   2y later the lender ceo bid the same sum to buy the property for himself. He'd rejected higher offers in the intervening period whilst accruing interest. Lenders have a legal obligation to sell the property for the best price they can get. If they feel the offer is low they won't sell it, because it's likely the borrower will say the same. I had the property under offer to a fantastic niche buyer but lender rushed to repo and buyer got spooked and walked.  It had taken a long time to find such a lucrative buyer.  A sale which would have resulted in £s and another asset for me. Post repo lender had 1 offer immediately.  But dragged out the process for >1y - allegedly trying to get other offers. But disclosure shows there was only one valid buyer. Again, points as above. Lender appointed receiver (after 4 months) - simply to try acquire the freehold.  He used his powers as receiver to use me, as leaseholder, to serve notice on freeholders.  Legally that failed. Meanwhile lender failed to secure property - and squatters got in (3 times).  And they failed to maintain it.  So freeholders served a dilapidations notice (external) - on me as leaseholder (cc-ed to lender).   (That's how it works legally) Why serve a delapidations notice? If it's in the terms of the lease to maintain the property to a good standard, then serve an S146 notice instead as it's a clear breach of the lease. I don't own the freehold.  But I am a trustee and have to do right by the freeholders.  This is where matters got/ get complicated.  And probably lose most caggers.   Lawyers got involved for the freeholders to firstly void the receiver enfranchisement notice. Secondly, to serve the dilapidations notice.  The lack of maintenance was in breach of lease and had to be served to protect fh asset. Enfranchisement isn't something that can be "voided", it's in the Leasehold Reform Act 1967 that leaseholders have the right to buy the freehold of the property. It's normal, whether it is a "normal" leaseholder or a repossession with a leasehold house, to claim this right of enfranchisement and sell the property with said rights attached and the purchase price of the freehold included in the final completion price. That's likely what the mortgage provider wished to do. The lender did no repairs. They said a buyer would undertake them. Which was probably correct. If they had sold. After 1y lender finally agreed to sell to the 1st offeror and contracts went with lawyers.  Within 1 month lender reneged.  Lender tried to suggest buyer walked. Evidence shows he/ his lawyers continued trying to exchange (cash) for 4 months.  Evidence shows lender and receiver strategy had been to renege and for ceo to take control.   I still think that's their plan. Redact and scan said evidence up for others to look at? Lender then stupidly chose to pretty much bulldoze the property.  Other stuff was going on in the background. After repo I was in touch by phone and email and lender knew post got to me.   Despite this, after about 10 months (before and then during covid), they deliberately sent SDs and eventually a B petition to an incorrect address and an obscure small court.  They never served me properly.  (In hindsight I understand they hoped to get a backdoor B - so they could keep the property that way.)  Eventually the random court told them to email me by way of service.  At this point their ruse to make me B failed.  I got a lawyer (friend paid). The B petition was struck out. They’d failed to include the property as an asset. They were in breach of insolvency rules. So this is dealt with then. Simultaneously the receiver again appointed lawyers to act on my behalf as leaseholder. This time to serve notice on the freeholders for a lease extension.  He had hoped to try and vary the strict lease. Evidence shows the already long length of lease wasn't an issue.  The lender obviously hoped to get round their lack of permission to do works (which they were already doing) by hoping to remove the strict clauses that prevent leaseholder doing alterations.  You wouldn't vary a lease through a lease extension. You'd need a Deed of Variation for that. This may be done at the same time but the lease has already been extended once and that's all they have a right to. The extension created a new legal angle for me to deal with.  I had to act as trustee for freeholders against me as leaseholder/ the receiver.  Inconsistencies and incompetence by receiver lawyers dragged this out 3y.  It still isn't properly resolved. The lease has already been extended once so they have no right to another extension. It seems pretty easy to just get the lawyer to say no and stick by those terms as the law is on your side there. Meanwhile - going back to the the works the lender undertook. The works were consciously in breach of lease.  The lender hadn't remedied the breaches listed in the dilapidations notice.  They destroyed the property.  The trustees compiled all evidence.  The freeholders lawyers then served a forfeiture notice. This notice started a different legal battle. I was acting for the freeholders against what the lender had done on my behalf as leaseholder.  This legal battle took 3y to resolve. Again, order them to revert it as they didn't have permission to do the works, or else serve an S146 notice for breach of the lease. The simple exit would have been for lender to sell. A simple agreement to remedy the breaches and recompense the freeholders in compensation - and there's have been clean title to sell.  That option was proposed to them.   This happened by way of mediation for all parties 2y ago.  A resolution option was put forward and in principle agreed.  But immediately after the lender lawyers failed to engage.  A hard lesson to learn - mediation cannot be referred to in court. It's considered w/o prejudice. The steps they took have made no difference to their ability to sell the property.  Almost 3y since they finished works they still haven't sold. ** ** I followed up some leads myself.  A qualified cash buyer offered me a substantial sum.  The lender and receiver both refused it.   I found another offer in disclosure.  6 months later someone had apparently offered a substantial sum via an agent.  The receiver again rejected it.  The problem of course was that the agent had inflated the market price to get the business. But no-one was or is ever going to offer their list price.  Yet the receiver wanted/wants to hold out for the list price.  Which means 1y later not only has it not sold - disclosure shows few viewings and zero interest.  It's transparently over-priced.  And tarnished. For those asking why I don't give up - I couldn't/ can't.  Firstly I have fiduciary duties as a trustee. Secondly, legal advice indicates I (as leaseholder) could succeed with a large compensation claim v the lender.  Also - I started a claim v my old lawyer and the firm immediately reimbursed some £s. That was encouraging.  And a sign to continue.  So I'm going for compensation.  I had finance in place (via friend) to do a deal and take the property back off the lender - and that lawyer messed up bad.   He should have done a deal.  Instead further years have been wasted.   Maybe I only get back my lost savings - but that will be a result.   If I can add some kind of complaint/ claim v the receiver's conscious impropriety I will do so.   I have been left with nothing - so fighting for something is worth it. The lender wants to talk re a form of settlement.  Similar to my proposal 2y ago.  I have a pretty clear idea of what that means to me.  This is exactly why I do not give up.  And why I continue to ask for snippets of advice/ pointers on cag.  
    • It was all my own work based on my previous emails to P2G which Bank has seen.
    • I was referring to #415 where you wrote "I was forced to try to sell - and couldn't." . And nearer the start in #79 .. "I couldn't sell.  I had an incredibly valuable asset. Huge equity.  But the interest accrued / the property market suffered and I couldn't find a buyer even at a level just to clear the debt." In #194 you said you'd tried to sell for four years.  The reason for these points is that a lot of the claims against for example your surveyor, solicitor, broker, the lender and now the receiver are mainly founded in a belief that they should have been able to do something but did not. Things that might seem self evident to you but not necessarily to others. Pressing these claims may well need a bit more hard evidence, rather than an appeal to common sense. Can you show evidence of similar properties, with similar freehold issues, selling readily? And solid reasons why the lender should have been able to sell when you couldn't.
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xercise4less/harlands


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Hi, just wondering how you're getting on with this? I'm currently having a bit of a nightmare with it.

 

There's NO nightmare to be had with these clowns??

 

Have you got your own thread on your matter?

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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Hi all,

 

I joined xercise4less in May 2015 I think.

I can't remember the last time I used the gymlink3.gif.

I thought I completed an online cancellation form some time in May or June this year, however it appears there is no record of it.

 

when I realised the DDlink3.gif was not cancelled from my bank account I rang the gymlink3.gif and spoke to a young girl (she sounded young and I foolishly never asked her name) who advised me to cancel the DD from my end too to 'make sure'.

 

I receive a letter from harlands asking for £34.99, the missed month and an adminlink3.gif fee.

I speaks to the manager who advising me to ring harlands, pay the £34.99, recomplete the cancellation form (as no record of it) and all is sorted.

 

anything for a quiet life, I done it.

 

I have now received another letter from harlands asking for £70.

It seems as I've not paid the monthly fees I now owe another 2 months fees plus an extra £50.

 

I tried contacting the guy who advised me (manager) who is now no longer the manager and I'm now dealing with the current manager.

Who is saying that my DD is cancelled!

which obviously I'm aware as I cancelled it.

 

He also tried to tell me there was no record of the second cancellation form

but luckily I'd kept a copy of it this time.

 

 

I can't prove the original form or the telephone calllink3.gif with the girl but I can obviously prove the payment to harlands (made 24/7 and left my account 25/7/17) and the copy of canc form 24/7/17.

 

He gave me an email address to contact, which I did, it was the same guy who replied?

 

He has now given a number for 'membership support' which is the same number as when I called and paid harlands.

 

I'm hoping someone can give me some advice as to where I stand legally.

I was told that paying the 34.99 settled the account and the completion of the form again would sort.

 

I'm assuming that when I paid the £34.99 they should have re set the DD up and taken one more payment?

but it appears they did not do this and this is probably what's causing the issue?

 

Thanks in advance for any advice you can give.

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they always say they never get the forms esp online ones

 

sadly you've just been s@cam med out of your money

IF you owed anything

it would have been ONE payment within the 30 days AFTER you first cancelled.

 

i'd be ringing your bank and getting anything you've paid back under the DD guarantee scheme

 

then WRITE not email

no phone

to Harlands and OFFER them £34.99 for the month after you first cancelled

if they write back and accept you pay it

if they don't accept YOU IGNORE THEM>

 

 

they are not BAILIFFS

a DCA is NOT A BAILIFF.

none have ANY legal powers

Gyms nor their dogs do court either

 

 

dx

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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nope you only owed £35 for the 30 days after you FIRST cancelled in may.

ignore the lasted attempt to fleece you then.

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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no you are quite safe to ignore everyone now

watch the forest come through your door under various differing names and DCA/fake solicitor letters

they all come from the same printer..don't be fooled

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hi NP and welcome to CAG

 

Your first post is pretty vague about important dates so, before you reclaim any DD's using the DDGS, you need to be as sure as you can.

 

It doesn't matter that the gym apparently has no record of your attempt to cancel. This is so common with X4Less, their denial or assertion would never stand up to scrutiny. If you can be reasonably sure WHEN you tried to cancel and the METHOD you used, you should be ok.

 

Let us know WHEN you tried to cancel and we can then give better advice on your next move.

 

In the meantime, make no attempt to contact Harlands/CRS by any method and certainly don't pay them anything.

 

To my mind, whenever you tried to cancel, you had to make one further payment to to Harlands. Anything you paid by DD beyond that, you can reclaim using the DDGS.

 

Or if you Made any further payment by debit card, you may be able to reclaim that by chargeback.

 

Give us the info we need first, about your best guess at the date you cancelled via the gym.

 

:-)

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi Slick, thank for the response.

 

I don't remember the date I originally cancelled online membership, I didn't keep a note of it.

 

I noticed the DD was still showing as active in my bank

I rang and explained to the girl Id completed canc form but that DD was still showing active.

She advised me to cancel DD myself to ensure it was cancelled.

/The DD was cancelled 7/7/17.

 

I was then issued with default letters etc.

Asking me to pay Harlands 34.99.

I was told by the manager that once that was paid I could recomplete the cancellation form and it would all be sorted.

Then the rest is as I've detailed above.

 

Further to the above I received a letter yesterday from CRS.

This said I was in default etc and I need to pay £171

- this is approx. as I don't have the letter in front of me.

 

Given that I've paid the £34.99 they requested

am I correct in assuming I'm doing the right thing completely ignoring anything to do with this now?

Is there a letter a I need to send?

 

Thanks

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nope

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hi NP,

 

From the info you've given, you should have made a final pay't at the end of August, after making the gym/Harlands aware of your wish to cancel.

 

See the post here and use the draft, follow the advice about proof of posting and send to Harlands - https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?481766-Another-Xercise4Less-Harlands&p=5066107&viewfull=1#post5066107

 

:-)

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi Slick,

thanks for coming back to me. I have not made another payment since the £34.99 on 25/7/17.

I cancelled my DD 7/7/17 as per the advice from the gym.

 

I was then issued with default notice.

I was advised to pay £34.99 and recomplete form which I did.

 

Do I now need to pay more?

I thought £34.99 was the default charge and final month payment?

 

I've had numerous letters and phone calls, all of which I've ignored, the latest letter being sent via email with court and CCJ threats.

 

Is there a template I can send advising that I've already paid the £34.99? should I have paid more after this payment?

 

thanks in advance for any advice/help its greatly appreciated

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you allowed a payment after your cancellation

so as far as I can see that's the end of it.?

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hi dx,

 

I have no proof or definite date I originally completed online cancellation form.

They say they have no record of it so going off

that I cancelled my DD 7/7 to which I received default notice which I paid £34.99.

 

Is that a £10 membership fee plus admin therefore I have paid a payment after cancellation?

 

I was told the £34.99 would clear it and enable me to complete cancellation form online again.

 

I'm now receiving threatening demands for over £171.

 

Thanks in advance

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if your membership was £9.99

and you paid £34.99

then you got sc@mmed out of a £25 admin fee.

 

there I no such thing as a default notice on gyms debts.

 

there are two ways you can go in my mind:

 

1. go reclaim that £34.99 from your bank as you were sc@mmed out of it.

then offer to pay one £9.99 membership for the month you missed following the cancellation

 

2. write off the £34.99 as that equates to 2.5mts of membership which is what you might owe and call it quits

 

there is nothing they can do to you.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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As well as giving them money you don't owe, you have complained to the gym, and embarrassed them on their social media sites?

 

IGNORE the powerless DCA and go and reclaim the money you paid them using the chargeback, and please STOP believing their pathetic letters threatening being struck down by lightening.

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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Let's keep this simple - you don't recall when you originally cancelled the m/ship so that doesn't help you.

 

You cancelled the DD 7th July which gave the gym and Harlands notice of your desire to cancel, after which you owed just one further pay't of £9.99.

 

As DX says, contact your bank and seek a Chargeback of the £34.99 on the basis that they've added admin fees that you didn't owe. Be assertive with the bank - they should look after you and not question the matter too much. Get that money back !!

 

Ignore all further demands for now as it's just Hot Air from Harlands/CRS.

 

Once the bank has refunded, you can offer to pay Harlands the £9.99 you owe for the month's notice. But we can deal with that later.

 

:-)

We could do with some help from you

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Please give something if you can. We all give our time free of charge but the site has bills to pay.

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi Slick,

 

Thanks for your help.

 

I think I'd rather leave £34.99 I've paid, if they'll just leave me alone!

 

I'm just confused as to how they can say I owe more when I paid what they asked!

 

I've received letters, phone calls, emails with letter attached etc etc.

 

I've ignored them all;

however I'm unsure as to whether I should write explaining I've already complied with their demands by paying £34.99 which covers 2.5 months of gym membership fees after the DD cancellation form?

 

Thanks again

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well they wont because you are letting them walk all over you.

 

you need to TAKE CONTROL

 

and do what you've been advised to do, its your legal right to reclaim that from your bank under the DD guarantee

 

then write and offer ONLY the £9.99

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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DX is absolutely right !!

 

You HAVE to be assertive or Harlands/CRS will hound you for more and more in m/ship and admin fees. They WON'T leave you alone as you hope and they'll see your actions as a sign of weakness from a victim they'll be happy to pursue further.

 

Unless you do what I said and seek the refund from the bank using the DDGS, Harlands will not only keep money they're not entitled to but they'll continue to demand more.

 

We've been dealing with these fools for many years - we know how they operate.

 

Contact the bank and get the refund as suggested. Otherwise you'll be at the mercy of Harlands/CRS, the Zinc Group and whatever pet solicitors Harlands can convince to represent them these days.

 

:-)

We could do with some help from you

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Please give something if you can. We all give our time free of charge but the site has bills to pay.

 

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  • 2 months later...

Hi all,

 

UPDATE: received text from Zinc, 5/1/18, with a link with letter attached. Clicked on letter but have to input details such as date of birth etc, never bothered so no idea what the letter said.

 

Out of interest do these clowns have a leg to stand on?

 

Thanks again

 

PRIOR TO CONTACT FROM ZINC I'VE HAD SEVERAL OFFERS IN WRITING OF REDUCING THE DEBT

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what are ZINC?

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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