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    • S13 (2)The creditor may not exercise the right under paragraph 4 to recover from the keeper any unpaid parking charges specified in the notice to keeper if, within the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which that notice was given, the creditor is given— (a)a statement signed by or on behalf of the vehicle-hire firm to the effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to a named person under a hire agreement; (b)a copy of the hire agreement; and (c)a copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement. As  Arval has complied with the above they cannot be pursued by EC----- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- S14 [1]   the creditor may recover those charges (so far as they remain unpaid) from the hirer. (2)The conditions are that— (a)the creditor has within the relevant period given the hirer a notice in accordance with sub-paragraph (5) (a “notice to hirer”), together with a copy of the documents mentioned in paragraph 13(2) and the notice to keeper; (b)a period of 21 days beginning with the day on which the notice to hirer was given has elapsed;  As ECP did not send copies of the documents to your company and they have given 28 days instead of 21 days they have failed to comply with  the Act so you and your Company are absolved from paying. That is not to say that they won't continue asking to be paid as they do not have the faintest idea how PoFA works. 
    • Euro have got a lot wrong and have failed to comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4.  According to Section 13 after ECP have written to Arval they should then send a NTH to the Hirer  which they have done.This eliminates Arval from any further pursuit by ECP. When they wrote to your company they should have sent copies of everything that they asked Arval for. This is to prove that your company agree what happened on the day of the breach. If ECP then comply with the Act they are allowed to pursue the hirer. If they fail, to comply they cannot make the hirer pay. They can pursue until they are blue in the face but the Hirer is not lawfully required to pay them and if it went to Court ECP would lose. Your company could say who was driving but the only person that can be pursued is the Hirer, there does not appear to be an extension for a driver to be pursued. Even if there was, because ECP have failed miserably to comply with the Act  they still have no chance of winning in Court. Here are the relevant Hire sections from the Act below.
    • Thank-you FTMDave for your feedback. May I take this opportunity to say that after reading numerous threads to which you are a contributor, I have great admiration for you. You really do go above and beyond in your efforts to help other people. The time you put in to help, in particular with witness statements is incredible. I am also impressed by the way in which you will defer to others with more experience should there be a particular point that you are not 100% clear on and return with answers or advice that you have sought. I wish I had the ability to help others as you do. There is another forum expert that I must also thank for his time and patience answering my questions and allowing me to come to a “penny drops” moment on one particular issue. I believe he has helped me immensely to understand and to strengthen my own case. I shall not mention who it is here at the moment just in case he would rather I didn't but I greatly appreciate the time he took working through that issue with me. I spent 20+ years of working in an industry that rules and regulations had to be strictly adhered to, indeed, exams had to be taken in order that one had to become qualified in those rules and regulations in order to carry out the duties of the post. In a way, such things as PoFA 2012 are rules and regulations that are not completely alien to me. It has been very enjoyable for me to learn these regulations and the law surrounding them. I wish I had found this forum years ago. I admit that perhaps I had been too keen to express my opinions given that I am still in the learning process. After a suitable period in this industry I became Qualified to teach the rules and regulations and I always said to those I taught that there is no such thing as a stupid question. If opinions, theories and observations are put forward, discussion can take place and as long as the result is that the student is able to clearly see where they went wrong and got to that moment where the penny drops then that is a valuable learning experience. No matter how experienced one is, there is always something to learn and if I did not know the answer to a question, I would say, I don't know the answer to that question but I will go and find out what the answer is. In any posts I have made, I have stated, “unless I am wrong” or “as far as I can see” awaiting a response telling me what I got wrong, if it was wrong. If I am wrong I am only too happy to admit it and take it as a valuable learning experience. I take the point that perhaps I should not post on other peoples threads and I shall refrain from doing so going forward. 🤐 As alluded to, circumstances can change, FTMDave made the following point that it had been boasted that no Caggers, over two years, who had sent a PPC the wrong registration snotty letter, had even been taken to court, let alone lost a court hearing .... but now they have. I too used the word "seemed" because it is true, we haven't had all the details. After perusing this forum I believe certain advice changed here after the Beavis case, I could be wrong but that is what I seem to remember reading. Could it be that after winning the above case in question, a claimant could refer back to this case and claim that a defendant had not made use of the appeal process, therefore allowing the claimant to win? Again, in this instance only, I do not know what is to be gained by not making an appeal or concealing the identity of the driver, especially if it is later admitted that the defendant was the driver and was the one to input the incorrect VRN in error. So far no one has educated me as to the reason why. But, of course, when making an appeal, it should be worded carefully so that an error in the appeal process cannot be referred back to. I thought long and hard about whether or not to post here but I wanted to bring up this point for discussion. Yes, I admit I have limited knowledge, but does that mean I should have kept silent? After I posted that I moved away from this forum slightly to find other avenues to increase my knowledge. I bought a law book and am now following certain lawyers on Youtube in the hope of arming myself with enough ammunition to use in my own case. In one video titled “7 Reasons You Will LOSE Your Court Case (and how to avoid them)” by Black Belt Barrister I believe he makes my point by saying the following, and I quote: “If you ignore the complaint in the first instance and it does eventually end up in court then it's going to look bad that you didn't co-operate in the first place. The court is not going to look kindly on you simply ignoring the company and not, let's say, availing yourself of any kind of appeal opportunities, particularly if we are talking about parking charge notices and things like that.” This point makes me think that, it is not such a bizarre judgement in the end. Only in the case of having proof of payment and inputting an incorrect VRN .... could it be worthwhile making a carefully worded appeal in the first instance? .... If the appeal fails, depending on the reason, surely this could only help if it went to court? As always, any feedback gratefully received.
    • To which official body does one make a formal complaint about a LPA fixed charge receiver? Does one make a complaint first to the company employing the appointed individuals?    Or can one complain immediately to an official body, such as nara?    I've tried researching but there doesn't seem a very clear route on how to legally hold them to account for wrongful behaviour.  It seems frustratingly complicated because they are considered to be officers of the court and held in high esteem - and the borrower is deemed liable for their actions.  Yet what does the borrower do when disclosure shows clear evidence of wrong-doing? Does anyone have any pointers please?
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Council tax summons and attachment of earnings


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Firstly apologies if thus is in the wrong section.

 

About a week ago I received a letter from the council stating they had a liability order and were going to take my council tax debt from my earnings ,

 

it stated as from 08/09/16 I owed £482 and this was to be collected from each pay day at a % of my net pay

 

today I've received a court summons for the amount of £875 plus £60 court costs and there's an expenditure form to fill in if I want to ask to spread the payments out

 

This is where I'm confused because the attachment of earnings letter states they are going to start to take the payments as soon as its my next payday

 

then the letter about the court summons arrived today its the same reference number on the letter so what do I do?

 

I don't want to offer a payment then they are going to take it out my wages aswell or is this another council tax debt

 

I'm just confused and cant settle until I know

but they don't open until Monday and this is the first I knew about how much I owed

 

until now yes its my own fault but due to my fluctuating wage sometimes don't have enough to pay the full monthly amount

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you'll have to wait till Monday.

and ask

nothing we can do

we've no crystal ball

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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it might be better to look at why you're not paying them

things like mobile phones sat tv credit cards etc

all need to be dropped or stopped

ctax as well as your mortgage/rent and gas/electric are priority bills and should come first.

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Perhaps scan in and post up exactly what you have received (redacted) shazajo

 

For reference Notice of Attachment of Earnings is N55/N56

 

Application to vary a judgment is a N245.

 

Courts Summons is a N1 (blue form usually served from Northampton CCBC)

 

Andy

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Those forms are County Court forms, the council tax forms are different.

 

Most council tax forms don't have a specified format, just the information they need to contain.

 

The form will likely be a regulation 36 notice ( a request for information form) - failure to provide the required information can result in an application to the magistrates court by the council for a hearing in to issuing a fine.

 

If a summons has been issued for a debt then it cannot be the same one that an existing liability order is in place for, it has to be a different debt.

 

 

I suspect that the new summons has just crossed with the issuing of the attachment of earnings for an existing liability order. The amount on the summons would be what I would expect for this years council tax.

 

The council can issue up to 2 attachment of earnings orders at any one time (one attachment per liability order) so they can issue a second attachment once the liability order is granted for the latest summons. You have no appeal against the attachment order except to ask the council nicely.

 

You need to speak with the local authority though as they are the only ones with the information to confirm what has happened.

 

Craig

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Those forms are County Court forms, the council tax forms are different.

 

Most council tax forms don't have a specified format, just the information they need to contain.

 

Craig

 

Yes I am aware the forms are relating to County Court Craig...just reading between the lines of the OPS post trying to clarify what they have received as they refer to Court Summons...Expenditure Form and Attachment of Earnings.

 

 

Andy

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PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHER

 

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Sorry I should of made it more clear,all the letters I have received are from the council

there's no blue form from Northampton etc

 

 

there is a form which I received with the letter from the council asking for my income and outgoings so I'm going to full that in

 

 

I was just concerned about making an offer then having an amount coming out my wages then paying this new amount on top and then my current council tax I still need to pay other bills etc so not sure how much to offer a month

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All you need to do is get all of your information together, fill in the council form as best as you can and ASK the council for help. They won't expect you to pay more than you can afford. Ask them whether you can sit down with the council to discuss this and sort it out. Most local councils have offices you can go to meet them and easily resolve. It is not to be frightened of, leading to them deciding everything from afar and telling you.

 

If you engage fully with the council, you will get to a position you can fully manage.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

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Thread moved to Council Tax Forum.

 

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHER

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group - The National Consumer Service

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