I originally posted these in another thread... mods please feel free to delete those posts now...

HI all!

I'm new to CAG, unfortunately i, like most others here i suppose, have an ongoing 'billing issue' with one of 'the big six' which i have been trying to resolve for the past few months....

This thread is absolutely fascinating and has certainly added to my knowledge which, again unfortunately, i have been put in the position of HAVING to acquire.

I have had months of stress, guarantees, inaction, SERIOUSLY insulted by a call centre member of staff.. the list goes on!!!!

I cannot post too many details presently as it is still ongoing and i am expecting contact from one of their staff next week some time to resolve the issue.

I can say though that i have been given numerous assurances that this would be sorted out within 28 days and we're now about 4 months in...... the 28 day 'cutoff' period for complaints passed some time ago and when i informed a member of staff of this i was told 'oh we can have up to 56 days' to which i obviously responded 'well why do you state 28 then' and was met with a 'durrrh'????

I have overwhelming evidence to support my case in the form of VERY high quality recordings which make very interesting listening and when this is all dealt with i will look into some way of making these available, legal issues aside, to help others who may be in a similar situation.

I would SERIOUSLY urge people to record ALL contact with these people as some of the responses i have had from the company in question have been quite hilarious and frankly delusional .... well they would be funny if it weren't such a HUGE amount of money involved... so i have been able to refer to those calls and am able to recall names, dates and the content of conversations verbatim... they have now realised this and the last contact i received from them was INCREDIBLY apologetic.

Even IF the 'debt' is written off and i am 'compensated' i am not going to walk away from this....... i read a quote on another forum the other day from someone who has had/is still having the same issues with this company..... 'i've decided not to change companies, i'm going to be exactly the kind of customer XXXXX deserve'!!!!! I think the more of us that subscribe to that paradigm the better....

Time to bully the bullies don't you think?

HI again and many thanks for the replies

BankFodder i have PM'd you explaining a few things....

I read your CS guide and i have pretty much adhered to that but there are a couple of tips i hadn't thought of so thank you very much for that....

The recordings i made myself are of extremely high quality because i own a SMALL but highly spec'd recording studio so i use a Neumann KM184 microphone into an SSL pre amp into an RME interface...

I use this method as it provides a) an incredibly high quality recording and b) it also picks up 'mains hum' as this can be used in a court of law to verify the time, date and location of a recording as mains electricity is not 'stable' and there is now a national database of 'mains signatures' which can and are used for forensic purposes.

i then post processed them to reduce noise..... the GOD AWFUL on hold music (remember i am a studio owner here... ) which is either VERY poorly chosen or deliberately chosen and it does not translate well over a telephone earpiece/speaker... it's VERY high in the 2-4khz frequency band which will FATIGUE a persons listening in only a few minutes... i have also found i am generally put on hold for 4 minutes or more... ask ANYONE with mental health 'de-escalation' training and they well confirm that this is the amount of time after which most people start to 'calm down' when they are angry.... your guide is entirely correct in assuming that CS techniques ARE designed to wear you down.. as is being asked the same questions repeatedly...

Initially when this happened i just wanted to get it sorted out and leave Npower... but the more i read and learn about this company and their either ineptitude or downright nastiness i feel it's not just about myself any more..

What i can offer to members of the forum is if any of you have recordings but of poor quality or low volume levels, if you PM me i might be able to process your recordings to enhance them for you... at no cost of course!

One thing i will say for now.... it was agreed that my account would be suspended for the duration of this issue AND i also requested that they contact me either by email or post and NOT ad hoc phone calls as i am a disabled person and that i wish to record calls, so i would contact them by phone myself..... this was not done properly and i received another bill, then another 'bill' which after inspection turned out to be a 'veiled' debt letter at which point i decided to go down the harassment route and informed them that if i received just one more communication from them of this type i will be reporting the named individual at the bottom of the correspondence to various agencies including but not limited to the police and will follow through with any 'relevant and pertinent actions'. the letters have now stopped!

I did receive an unsolicited phone call from their complaints team last week and informed the caller of what we had already agreed, she said that she had no knowledge of this.... i did continue to take the call though as i now have the CAB 'additional help' team involved and she agreed to send me details of the conversation in black and white... whether this happens or not remains to be seen..... i DID however, manage to get a NAMED INDIVIDUAL and direct contact number and extension to speak with this person directly...... that feels like at least a partial 'success' for now lol.....

Update..... long story short as i am disabled and long posts really take it out of me....

I now have named case handler at NP. spoke with them yesterday and was informed it has been sent back to back office YET AGAIN.... i asked for a timescale and was told it will take ANOTHER 10 - 14 days.... i said this is not acceptable as it's been going on for months now and they have had the load test results for A MONTH now.... to the day! case handler said that they (the case handler) hadn't sent the results over till last friday when the case handler contacted me.

I also stated the next bill is very nearly due, in fact due within the next 14 days.

I also restated that this is having a detrimental effect on my health..... AGAIN.

they have now admitted my bills were originally correct and then i was miss-billed so they are recalculating.

I informed them that my original complaint (via executive complaints dept -Tel: 0330 100 8614- STILL has not been answered despite the original 28 day deadline having expired and it will be 56 days today. They had no idea of the issues i raised so i repeated them to the person although they were aware there IS a complaint... lol a bit bizarre!

I asked them to read EVERYTHING on their screen back to me.. i felt they were evasive.... i explained i wanted to check to see if there were any errors or data missing... they didn't fulfil my request.

The Ch (case handler) started talking over me so i became quite assertive and asked them to let me finish what i was saying... they complied... the further the conversation went on and the more details became evident to the Ch the more 'deflated' and i felt 'worried' they sounded in the call (assertiveness training is a GODSEND in this kind of situation). i reminded the caller of the dates of calls i've made and that there should be a record on their system... if not then i am within my rights to request an SAR to retrieve any and all data regarding myself and the account to check the veracity of what i was being told.

Having got to the stage where i am now SERIOUSLY p'eed off with the company and in the mood for giving them a good pasting i have put in a formal request for a face to face conversation with their CEO paul massara.... either in person (i invited him round for a hot beverage of his choice and a selection of biscuits) or via skype... she was evasive but i stuck to my guns, as it is often the case that the person at the top has no idea what is going on because middle managers are too often too concerned with protecting their own backs and too scared to say it like it is.... i stated that if this is not forthcoming then i will be contacting HIS boss, Peter Terium, at RWE HQ in Essen Germany... the Ch sounded VERY worried now.

i also stated it should be by appointment and not just a cold call.

i reiterated that i require answers NOW as they have had multiples of 28 days for many aspects of my case and that it was beyond unacceptable.

I asked for a DEFINITIVE date for conclusion and resolution of the issues raised and was told they can't give me one... all they said is the MAY have it done within 10-14 days...

i reitteraded i want to speak with massara as it's not just about me any more, there are hundreds if not thousands of upset NP customers and i require answers from him.

Ch repeated my requests back to me and i thanked them for their time and ended the call.. which was of course recorded

Thank you for telling us which company is causing you this problem – although we probably guessed that it was Npower anyway.

I think that one problem about the way people handle these complaints is that they keep on living in hope and giving Npower another chance and then another chance and then another.

This is a mistake because it just gets more and more complicated and you keep on dealing with more and more customer service people – none of them who have any real idea of what's going on – and none of them who are particularly interested anyway.

I think that people who deal with npower should cut their losses quickly and start taking action.

We already have user Eversir who has begun a claim against them and who has just received a defence. His complaint against npower has been going on for two years. Bearing a complete mess. They trip over themselves. They have breached the data protection act because they have failed to make a statutory disclosure – although magically as soon as the court papers arrived, the statutory disclosure arrived. It is still being analysed and it is clear that it is not complete. However, the disclosure does reveal all sorts of new information.

Also, in common with your own experience npower failed to abide by their complaints policy and the complaint standards in terms of what to do and also the timescales were doing it. In fact at one point an npower customer service rep refused to allow the matter to be passed on to the energy ombudsman. Luckily this telephone call was recorded and it will form part of the breach of contract action against npower in the County Court. Make no mistake that npower's contractual breaches are not limited to the supply of energy. They are also contractually bound by the complaints handling policies and also by the industrial rules imposed by the energy ombudsman to handle matters in a certain way. If they refuse to do that or if they fail to do it for any reason than they are in breach of contract.

I suggest that you start assembling all of your information now. That you supply them with an SAR. And you waste no time beginning the court action which you will inevitably have to do anyway

Hey BF!

Thanks for your advice.... yes this is pretty much what i'm doing now as you suggest... i'm just letting them uncoil yet more rope for the drop seems they don't need anyone else's help to do this.

I was a union rep/H&S rep for many years and had a 100% success record which i am very proud of, and have also worked in managerial roles so i am well versed in the concept of policies and procedures... even written a few myself but of course that was in the industries i was employed in so all info from you guys is MUCH appreciated!:whoo:

I only discovered this resource as a result of all this and i am REALLY impressed with this site, although deeply saddened and angered that so many of us ( i shudder to think how many people aren't aware), i have gone through Eversir's posts as well as a few others and it's blatantly clear just how this organ goes about their business.

I'm now off to paypal you a few quid and will publicise this site as much as i can...

Very kind - but hang on to your money until you get a result.

What you could do though is try to persuade the people on the Facebook groups that merely discussing on FB without taking action will help no one expect Npower

Oh well, too late. We got the donation. Thank you very much. It is very helpful.

If you sue Npower successfully - then we'll give it back to you

Hey BF!

It's not just about me my friend so hang on to it.... if... sorry WHEN i win i'll drop a little more in the pot

Out of interest, what time period does your problem/complaint originate at? e.g. September 2013

Hi Eversir!

The period they're quibbling is from June 2012 to the present, this only kicked off last november though so i'm a mere noob compared to your own case.... i'm hoping that i can prevent it from dragging on as long as your own and others though by learning from yours and others cases... "forewarned is forearmed" and "know your enemy" etc........

I do hope you get a speedy resolution though mate and give 'em hell!

To quote Pt Jones.... 'they don't like it up 'em'

Is this November 2013 or 2014?

Would definitely advocate preventing it from dragging on. BankFodder is 110% correct: 2+ years of information and events becomes complicated, even if by some miricle the content is not. Nip it in the bud now.

Thanks for the kind words. I hope the process we're going through now will help you - and others too - in some way.

It all kicked off in November of last year, 2014.

It's already massively complicated as there is a faulty meter involved too, which i'm informed, will have been reconditioned and placed in another property.... clearly also their equipment is 'not fit or robust enough for purpose' if a mains spike causes the internal clock to reset and if the internal clock is wrong that raises the question 'what else was wrong with it and can the readings be trusted' of course.

many thanks to you too for your empathy

It's all about people power these days mate... but that's for another post lol...

Totally agree with BF regarding taking action. The Facebook groups help to let people know that they are not alone with their billing problems but the best advice to take action is here.

For example on Npower Boycott and my npower nightmare there is a link to here placed so that people can access all the information.

OK guys... you might want to sit down before reading this...................

I just logged into my account with N(o)Power AND............................. i am now about a tenner IN CREDIT!!!!!!

Checked the account activity and it correlates with what i read on the main screen............. i'm not going to get too excited yet... hey we all know who we're dealing with here but................... WOOOOOOOHOOOOOOO!!!

Clearly i still need to get this confirmed in black and white, as well as my 'usual' recordings too.

I'm NOT going to leave it there though even if this is the case, i'm thinking i'm going to be exactly the type of customer N(o)power deserve.... lol

i'm off for me pre-emptive celebratory muesli now!

Back later....

With anything like that, take screenshots and date them.

I am waaaaaay ahead of you

But of course thanks for the suggestion

Oooooookkkkkkkk.....

Now i am apparently nearly £2k in credit..... curiouser and curiouser....

Screen grabs taken of course.....

This sounds like reverse billing in action.

Yes this is what I'm thinking too.....

Probably wake up to find we're back at square one again or worse in the morning........

So after some sleep i've looked at the account online again and it seems the bill reversal was what put me into about a tenner into the black and the remaining credit is down to 'prior period adjustments' on the bill and its VAT....

I'm staying logged into the account today 'cos to be honest it's loads more entertaining than the telly.....

In fact i think i might get a transcript of all the calls and try to flog 'em to the BBC..... they keep giving miranda and mrs brown's boys new series and this is WAAAAYYY funnier than either of those

Hi Mat-H Could you try to explain what happens with bill reversal and if possible what , in your opinion, happens to any payments which have previously been made on the account.

I think BF will know what I am getting at.

Hey batman!

Well..... how i perceive what's SUPPOSED to happen is that the bill/s in question are 'refunded internally' to N(o)power so essentially the account is 'wound back' to the start of the period of the bill/s and then the readings are re entered correctly again... in a nutshell winding the account back and then fast forwarding it again (correctly) to the present.... or that's the theory.....

Of course i could be being rather naive here.....

That is theoretically correct as far as the billing goes but what about any payments?

I would assume that those payments are then sequentially 'repaid' back into my account and if i am in credit it is refunded or if i am owing them then i get billed for the remaining balance?

Ok. That is what anyone would reasonably assume.

There is some question if that is what really happens.

This is an explanation provided by an ex npower employee who worked in the relevant department.

What normally happens is when a bill is reversed sometimes payments that have been made don't show on the amended bill.

Everything about reverse billing does not work. It's really hard to explain but I will try.

Say a customer has an actual reading in June 2012 and they are billed quarterly and receive a bill in September 2012 and their bill is estimated, the same happens in January 2013 and again in May 2013.

In September the customer provides a read that is a lower that the previous 3 estimated reads. The adviser then has to reverse the previous three bills and delete the reads and add them back onto the account as inactive (these won't show on an amended bill).

Once that bill (s) is reversed then the new amended bill which is generated will show absolutely nothing about previous direct debit reassessments, reads or payments made.

Make of that what you will but it seems that there is some question over the payments side of things.