Hi all,

Got a letter in the post today out of the blue that i have been summonsed for non payment of council tax.

My wife always pays the council tax via there online payments system, but somehow she missed paying September as i hurt my back and ankle and was going back and to hospital and doctors and just forgot.

I spoke to a lady from the council on or around the 7th October 2013 and she said we had missed a payment for September of £135.00 but Octobers had been paid on the 1st October.

I rang on the 7th as i thought the balance should have been lower.

The lady at the council told me that as long as the outstanding £135 was paid before the end of October and Novembers payment was made then there would be no problems.

I paid the £135 yesterday 25/10/2013 which means we are in credit by £11 or ahead as i write this.

Today i got a summons in the post to show cause why i have not paid the sum

The balance at the moment is £604, that's with the £75 they have added for the summons.

Any advice would be great

Write a letter to the Head of the Council, copying in your local MP, include the medical evidence and head the letter

FORMAL COMPLAINT

Then turn up at the court with your evidence and the council will be sunk - they issue these things in list format, and nobody seems to read them before they go out, so a load of 'false cases' get generated.

It is easily challenged - I had 2 adjournments on my recent case and the council had their costs taken out of the amount they claimed (twice what was finally assessed - and still another assessment done).

.....Today i got a summons in the post to show cause why i have not paid the sum

 

The balance at the moment is £604, that's with the £75 they have added for the summons.

 

Any advice would be great

It would be very interesting to know whether your council has actually added the £75 costs to your account already, or whether it is just stated on the summons.

If they have applied costs already and increased your liability by £75 I can't see how this would be lawful because the case has not been heard and no liability order granted.

Is it possible to obtain your balance (view on the councils website for example) to see if they've already added costs to your account?

Its not lawful and people are starting to wake up to this sca.m..

It would be very interesting to know whether your council has actually added the £75 costs to your account already, or whether it is just stated on the summons.

 

If they have applied costs already and increased your liability by £75 I can't see how this would be lawful because the case has not been heard and no liability order granted.

 

Is it possible to obtain your balance (view on the councils website for example) to see if they've already added costs to your account?

They have already added the £75 to my outstanding bill, my balance shows £604 when it should be £529

4 payments left, 3 at £135 and 1 at £124 as I'm £11 a head. = £529

Write a letter to the Head of the Council, copying in your local MP, include the medical evidence and head the letter

 

FORMAL COMPLAINT

 

Then turn up at the court with your evidence and the council will be sunk - they issue these things in list format, and nobody seems to read them before they go out, so a load of 'false cases' get generated.

 

It is easily challenged - I had 2 adjournments on my recent case and the council had their costs taken out of the amount they claimed (twice what was finally assessed - and still another assessment done).

Hi Sillygirl1,

What sort of evidence would i need?

Have you received any reminder notices in relation to this years council tax?

Was September's payment the only missed/late one?

....I spoke to a lady from the council on or around the 7th October 2013 and she said we had missed a payment for September of £135.00 but Octobers had been paid on the 1st October.

 

I rang on the 7th as i thought the balance should have been lower.

 

The lady at the council told me that as long as the outstanding £135 was paid before the end of October and Novembers payment was made then there would be no problems.

 

I paid the £135 yesterday 25/10/2013 which means we are in credit by £11 or ahead as i write this.....

The council should be accountable for the information it gave you in the above. If the council were reasonable, they should take responsibility and waive the costs and reinstate your instalments.

You could ask them to retrieve notes taken in regards the telephone conversation, or better still the recording.

EDIT:

If the added hassle doesn't bother you, you could raise a complaint about why the costs (£75 summons) have been added to your account before the court has heard the case.

Does it state on the summons that additional costs will be incurred if the court grants a liability order?

Hi Outlawla,

I have had no reminder or statement,

It was only really by chance that i checked my balance a few days after making payment that i was sure the amount showing should have been lower.

September was the only missed/late payment, we have paid all the others.

I made Octobers payment on the 1st and paid the September missed payment on Friday or the other way around depending how there system will show it.

I'm really shocked that Councils are allowed to do this.

Regulation 23 of the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulation 1992 makes provision for reminder notices.

If you tackle the council on this point, they could well state that they have no statutory obligation to prove the notice was received, only confirmation of postage. In that case you could ask that they provide proof.

Thanks Outlawla,

I will have a look and i will be complaining as there is no way I'm paying the £75.

I am going to phone them first thing in the morning and find out what is going on.

It's a disgrace what councils can get away with without no one being accountable.

Interesting morning,

Spoken to the council regarding the missed payment which has now been paid and they are not willing to remove the summons but they will set up a payment plan after Wednesday as Online payments take two days to show on my account, this includes there £75 costs.

I have also paid Novembers payment last night so we a currently ahead.

The lady on the phone spoke to the manager but he said the summons was correct and they will still go to court on the 11th November.

They say they sent a reminder out of the 2nd October 2013 which needed paying by 23/10/2013 but she has no record or proof of postage as it is just sent though the mail room at the council.

She gave me the email address of the manager and told me to email them.

Any advice at his stage would be great.

...Does it state on the summons that additional costs will be incurred if the court grants a liability order?

In what way are you going to benefit from entering into a payment plan? I assume your council will make the arrangement conditional on taking up Direct Debit?

What about details of the telephone conversation. Have they brushed that under the carpet?

it was more like what phone call

It says nothing about additional costs for a liability order.

I really have not idea what benefit a payment plan will do apart from line there pockets with £75.

The lady on the phone never said anything about DD but you can see it coming.

I thought the council may have been able to provide something like this:

Certificate of Posting....

The evidence you need is that you had already made up the missing payment and therefore their summons (which usually comes after TWO missed payments) was incorrect.

You can also state that the staff were not willing to do a repayment until they knew they would get the summons agreed by the court - this is where you can go to the court yourself and show the evidence that the council have bent the rules to suit themselves - and the £75 is unjustified (in my case they lost £110 in costs).

Remember, it pays the council to have liabilitiy orders as they can then show that they are getting the 'maximum revenue possible' for the council tax and receive a hefty subsidy in return.

They are using the courts as their PRIMARY means of debt collecting (via the liability order which then allows them to go for an attachment of earnings or benefits should you miss a payment). This is against the OFT Guidelines in debt collecting.

The Summons came after one missed payment which was paid before the summons arrived but is dated 2 days before payment was paid.

A payment plan was never given as a option when i first spoke to them, just that as long as it was paid before the end of the month.

One thing the lady did confirm of the telephone was that the summons was sent out by the council and not the court. (don't Summons come from the court)?

I thought the council may have been able to provide something like this:

 

Certificate of Posting....

All that really proved is that your reminder might have been one of nearly 1000 to be sent it's just a joke

All that really proved is that your reminder might have been one of nearly 1000 to be sent it's just a joke

I agree, but it seems your council can't even prove they sent any out.

I might have an idea which local authority you're dealing with and won't say in case it's an issue, but if I'm right it doesn't impose any more costs in respect of the court hearing. In other words it has front loaded all the costs in respect of instituting the complaint (summons). Viewed another way, those who pay all the outstanding council tax plus the £75 costs before the hearing are paying an element of costs which the council has not incurred and can not be anything other than unlawful.

What is the agreed date of your instalment?

I have to ring back on Wednesday as my payments i have maid wont show on my account till then

Right i have emailed the manager so will wait to see what he has to say of this mess, really not happy at all but lets see what happens.

If the reminder supposedly sent on the 2nd October 2013 was for payment by 23 October, then you paid this well in time on 1st October.

I have to assume now that the mystery reminder would have also stated something along the lines of:

What is your normal payment date?

Hi all,

After sending an email with all the information, i have just received a email saying it was my fault i missed my payment which i agree and that on this occasion they will withdraw the summons and costs on the grounds i had to go to hospital.

That said and on the basis of your recent hospitalisation, I have exercised my discretion and removed the summons and costs of £75.00. Normal payment of your council tax should now continue with payment at £135.00 per month for 1/12/13, 1/1/14 & 1/2/14. If you are late in your payment each month and do not make the payment within the month that it falls for, then normal council tax recovery action will be commenced as an automated process.

Happy ending in the end

i am still shocked that the law is so one sided, but thank you all so much for the time you have taken. CAG is still the best place for help and advice

Good one!

So it would seem that unless you go up the food chain, call centre staff will have no discretion and state "computer say no"

it seems that they have to go to the manager which the lady on the phone said she had but she said he said no on the phone but did the above when i emailed him.