Limited Company Claims

[andrew1]

I am starting this thread to assist Limited Companies - there is another business thread for Non - Limited companies - sole traders etc http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/68191-claiming-business-account-lets.html

 

..but this thread, whilst claims are similar, would be useful to pool experiences

and knowledge.

 

Certain people have shown concern that their companies have closed down, often because of high bank charges in the past at times when business was tough - well I would like to explore this and many other elements where a business has suffered to see if we can help a few people out.

 

Please post here for any Limited Company Account and lets get going..

 

Good Luck

 

I am personally not a Moderator or Site Helper and have no special knowledge other than having had a Limited Company with claims. I do not know the legal arguments and will be learning as much as others, but I hope to draw those experiences from others too and hope everyone with claims can benefit from this thread.

[AJG]

Great

 

I am iinvolved on the other thread re - Business Accounts but my claim is solely on Limited Companies and could really do with specific advice

 

The Claim is against BOS for c £ 9k

 

I have just sent the LBA action off and so far have not heard a thing - so need advice re court action and bundle of docs - I know I have to leave out all consumer references

 

On a seperate issue and another company Bos strung me for c £ 15.5k interest penalty when I transferred a business loan (variable rate). The facility letter stated that they MAY charge 3 months interest, and did.

 

This is a direct breach of OFT regulations OFT 620 and all associated documentation. The Banking Ombudsman has so far ruled on the Banks side and quite frankly been a homer. (They were never going to rule on our side, and ignored OFT docs when it suited them to)

 

But the battle will continue. Can anyone give advice on this, this is not a cost thing as we paid all legal costs, valuation costs and full arrangement fees, still waiting for justification other than "computer says no"

 

Things will hot up in a couple of weeks when court papers will be submitted.

[danler]

Hi Andrew1

 

Prelim letter sent 01/03/2007 for Natwest for a Limited Comp account we held between 2003/2004. This account is really the tester as it's only £330 (still, better in the companys bank account rather than theirs)

I have Barclays to hit soon, probably in the region of £5000 (This will cover the loan I have with them) so I am hoping to pay them off from the charges. At the moment Barclays have increased their Referall Fee from £10 to £30 so I know they are going to charge me quite hefy in the next quater. The annoying thing about Barclays is they will allow me to issue chq's upto £1000 overdrawn but charge me for the process. A year after having an £2000 overdraft they took this off me and forced me into taking a loan. I will let you all know the process of how it goes.

 

Danler

[innocent]

Great idea for a thread!!!!!

 

I think one of the biggest questions I have seen asked is:

 

If the limited company is now dissolved; who or what? will the cheque eventually be made out too??

 

 

I look forward to every post within this thread

 

Innocent

[andrew1]

Great

 

I am iinvolved on the other thread re - Business Accounts but my claim is solely on Limited Companies and could really do with specific advice

 

The Claim is against BOS for c £ 9k

 

I have just sent the LBA action off and so far have not heard a thing - so need advice re court action and bundle of docs - I know I have to leave out all consumer references

 

On a seperate issue and another company Bos strung me for c £ 15.5k interest penalty when I transferred a business loan (variable rate). The facility letter stated that they MAY charge 3 months interest, and did.

 

This is a direct breach of OFT regulations OFT 620 and all associated documentation. The Banking Ombudsman has so far ruled on the Banks side and quite frankly been a homer. (They were never going to rule on our side, and ignored OFT docs when it suited them to)

 

But the battle will continue. Can anyone give advice on this, this is not a cost thing as we paid all legal costs, valuation costs and full arrangement fees, still waiting for justification other than "computer says no"

 

Things will hot up in a couple of weeks when court papers will be submitted.

 

Right, lets try and respond to all these questions coming here. I can't answer all these myself but we can get the ball rolling by making some suggestions such as getting a Template letter posted here for initial claims and the follow ups.

 

To answer these first questions of AJG "I have just sent the LBA action off and so far have not heard a thing - so need advice re court action and bundle of docs - I know I have to leave out all consumer references "

 

I think that the court process would be the same as our normal claims all be it in the name of the company. (I'll post further down about a dissolved or liquidated company)

 

On a seperate issue and another company Bos strung me for c £ 15.5k interest penalty when I transferred a business loan (variable rate). The facility letter stated that they MAY charge 3 months interest, and did.

 

This sounds just like another penalty which can be claimed. Have you made any requests yet to have this returned?

 

This is a direct breach of OFT regulations OFT 620 and all associated documentation. The Banking Ombudsman has so far ruled on the Banks side and quite frankly been a homer. (They were never going to rule on our side, and ignored OFT docs when it suited them to)

 

Can you explain what OFT 620 actually is so others can learn from it. I googled it but didn't come up with much. I'd imagine the Ombudsman, if it was a while before bank charges issues were raised in the public profile it is today, would have been a little unfamiliar with the unlawful process. I have the same with another bank on Excess fees. The Ombudsman was written to in 'June 2000 about the ruthlessness of the banks punitive charges but came in favour of the bank then - he's going to eat his words once I've finished, but it may be that the defense re statutes of Limitation can be argued against if one has complained in earlier years to the Ombudsman and that the clock began ticking then not from now.

[andrew1]

Hi Andrew1

 

Prelim letter sent 01/03/2007 for Natwest for a Limited Comp account we held between 2003/2004. This account is really the tester as it's only £330 (still, better in the companys bank account rather than theirs)

I have Barclays to hit soon, probably in the region of £5000 (This will cover the loan I have with them) so I am hoping to pay them off from the charges. At the moment Barclays have increased their Referall Fee from £10 to £30 so I know they are going to charge me quite hefy in the next quater. The annoying thing about Barclays is they will allow me to issue chq's upto £1000 overdrawn but charge me for the process. A year after having an £2000 overdraft they took this off me and forced me into taking a loan. I will let you all know the process of how it goes.

 

Danler

 

There have been claims from people who were forced to take loans to clear balances which are heavy in charges. It takes a little time to sort these out without upsetting the business relationship with the bank, but it's certainly something to pursue.

[andrew1]

Great idea for a thread!!!!!

 

I think one of the biggest questions I have seen asked is:

 

If the limited company is now dissolved; who or what? will the cheque eventually be made out too??

 

 

I look forward to every post within this thread

 

Innocent

 

This is an interesting one and one that I asked in another thread. I gather it all depends on the status of the company and your ' the directors' role in the financial relationship when the company was dissolved.

 

Dissolved - Just ceased trading and de-registered at companies House, No Creditors not Liquidated with creditors.

 

Liquidated - went into Receivership and Liquidation either Voluntarily or Compulsory winding up by Creditors.

 

If your company was Liquidated and had creditors then the monies will be made payable to the liquidator - Period!

 

If the company was Dissolved, I am lead to believe that so long as you inform the bank that you will be making the claim personally and that you can prove that the funding of the company came from you by way of a loan/ finance or that your financial input made sure any bank lender was cleared yourself, there is no reason why the monies should not be paid to you. also, if the bank overdraft/loan were guaranteed by you.

 

Trouble with dissolved companies is that effectively they do not exist anymore so how can you claim in the name of the company. I'd be interested in anyones views on this as this is exactly my position too on one of my claims. The claim covers 1998 - 2005, there were some minor creditors who just went away, but the bank o/d was cleared and loans taken out with other institutions to fund the company so a claim could be made by the ex-director in his name. I'd rather not mention the bank at this juncture.

 

any advice on this will be interesting to debate.

[crashbandicoot]

Thanks for this, just subscribing for the future fight I'll be having with HSBC for my bro's business account (Ltd co.) Just out of interest, they now charge a management fee of £100 a month on his account, and don't charge him penalty fees anymore. One in place of the other hey?! Any thoughts on this?

[AJG]

The office of Fair Trading issued a number of requiredments/rules which most of the large banks signed up to - They include behavioual issues and guidelines which can be found on the following web

 

The Office of Fair Trading: Banking services to small and medium sized enterprises (December 2002)

[danler]

Hi Andrew

 

About the bank forcing me to take a loan.

 

The year they gave me an overdraft of £2000, I only went over this amount twice (they charged me £60 in total for doing this). Since the overdraft as gone the charges have gone to £1500 a year. But I will wait with this one until I have claimed the charges from Natwest.

Danler

[andrew1]

Thanks for this, just subscribing for the future fight I'll be having with HSBC for my bro's business account (Ltd co.) Just out of interest, they now charge a management fee of £100 a month on his account, and don't charge him penalty fees anymore. One in place of the other hey?! Any thoughts on this?

 

Only that for ' service fees' you can't claim them back as a penalty charge. If it's any help or not too late if you become a member of the Federation of Small Business (FSB) then they have an - it costs all of £70 a year, you can have free banking with the Co-operative Bank. That's free transactions, not overdrafts!

At £100 a month it depends what you get for that or what the business needs are. Frankly, I used Lloyds for my business accounts once - it gave the business a good feel and they charged me a management fee each month to get direct link with a Manager - He was a waste of space at the best of times and I got all my charges refunded because of it. Generally there are some benefits depending on the type of business, but you can judge for yourself whether it's £1200 a year well spent.

 

With someone like Co-op - not exactly the cutting edge name, but the service is good and on-line banking too, suits me down to the ground. They also just paid excess O/D charges back without much ado too..

[Destinyofsouls]

Has anyone got a POC for businesses ( Ltd) ? I have been searching the site and only came up with this letter.

1. The claimant has a current account with the defendant, conducted on their Standard terms and conditions.

2. The defendant has applied charges to the claimant account from February 2001 to present day totalling £4,647.50.

3. The bank's charges are a disproportionate penalty and therefore unenforceable. Penalty charges are irrecoverable at common law. The precedent for this was Dunlop Pneumatic v New Garage [1915] AC 79.along with Murray v. Leisure play [2005] EWCA Civ 963. The claimant has repeatedly asked the bank to refund their charges or offer proof that they are true pre-estimate. They have declined to do so.

 

4.The claimant claims £4,647.50, being the sum unlawfully debited

 

5.The claimant claims interest pursuant to S69 of the County Courts Act 1984, being the sum of £ 688.88

Is this OK to use?

[crashbandicoot]

Only that for ' service fees' you can't claim them back as a penalty charge. If it's any help or not too late if you become a member of the Federation of Small Business (FSB) then they have an - it costs all of £70 a year, you can have free banking with the Co-operative Bank. That's free transactions, not overdrafts!

At £100 a month it depends what you get for that or what the business needs are. Frankly, I used Lloyds for my business accounts once - it gave the business a good feel and they charged me a management fee each month to get direct link with a Manager - He was a waste of space at the best of times and I got all my charges refunded because of it. Generally there are some benefits depending on the type of business, but you can judge for yourself whether it's £1200 a year well spent.

 

With someone like Co-op - not exactly the cutting edge name, but the service is good and on-line banking too, suits me down to the ground. They also just paid excess O/D charges back without much ado too..

 

Thanks Andrew, I do understand about the service not being a penalty but as you say, it's a question of what they do for that fee. Anyway at £100 a month me thinks they should do more than they do at present..which is diddly squat! Oh well, all the more fun and games!

[andrew1]

I have another situation on these business accounts. There have been times when the company went over the overdraft a new overdraft facility had to be arranged to cover it and the bank charged 'Arrangement fees' of anything from £50 to £200 each time. Anyone believe these should/could be claimed back? I'm of the opinion that if the o/d had to be arranged to cover charges then they should be refunded.

[andrew1]

There's some interesting talk from an earlier thread..http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/70942-business-account-dissolved-company.html

[AJG]

Where is the Allocation Questionairew for Limited Companies?

 

The link takes you to a blank page!!

 

Thanks

[tifo]

Would i be able to claim on a Ltd company account which the bank (Lloyds) closed themselves in Dec 1998, due to too many charges being put on every month (i used to pay in to cover them) so at the end there was nothing owing to the bank.

 

The account ran from June 1997 - Dec 1998 and there must have been £1000's of charges in that time.

 

I know this is over 6 years now.

 

The company itself is still open but not trading and i am still a director of it.

[andrew1]

Would i be able to claim on a Ltd company account which the bank (Lloyds) closed themselves in Dec 1998, due to too many charges being put on every month (i used to pay in to cover them) so at the end there was nothing owing to the bank.

 

The account ran from June 1997 - Dec 1998 and there must have been £1000's of charges in that time.

 

I know this is over 6 years now.

 

The company itself is still open but not trading and i am still a director of it.

 

Hi tifo, I'd say yes. But they are likely to use the Limitations act. Be an interesting one to see because if they actually closed it because of the charges they will kinda be admitting to shooting themselves in the foot.

 

If you still have the statements I'd calculate what they have taken, write and ask them for the charges back. You realize you cannot send a Subject Access Request under the Data Protection Act to get statements for Limited Company Accounts - you are expected to keep them for a business account or pay for them again if you want them. That I'm afraid is a fee for a service!

 

Yes, in answer to your question, I'd go for it.

[Colin H]

Hi,big thanks to Andrew1 for pointing me in the direction of this thread.

I know earlier,it says if in liquidation all monies would go to the liquidators,but,i signed as a guarantee to the sum of £20000 ponds between both myself and the other director,which without the charges on the account wouldnt of been needed.

Am i wasting my time persuing this?

 

Please take a look and any advice will be mostly appreciated

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/royal-bank-scotland/74418-help-spreadsheet-contractual-rate.html

[andrew1]

That's an interesting one, what are you saying, the bank called in the guarantee from you both personally? If they did then I think you have every right to claim it personally but I understand if you make a claim you will have to state that you are claiming in person. Not sure of the wording but Humbleman was the one who seems to know a bit about this.. might be worth looking him up.

[Colin H]

Thats it Andrew1,they are calling on us personally (well,just me for reasons i know not lol,just to wind me up i think lol).

mm,now where does Humbleman hang out

[andrew1]

It sounds like a joint and several guarantee which means one or either or both.

Has the company actually been wound up or put into liquidation? I don't actulally think that'll make a difference as if the charges caused the O?D then you should start your claim against the bank. Do you have the statements or has the liquidator got them. I'd ask them (Liquidator) for copies although the bank won't supply them for free on a business account.

[Colin H]

I have the bank statements,and they levied charges and interest on those charges totalling £8477 up until they asked us to take a loan for £18270 to cover a £10000 loan plus the overdraft,advising us this was the best route,and that we had to sign personal guarantees for this to happen (doh!)

 

Without these charges none of this would have been necessary

 

Col

[Colin H]

Sorry,to answer your question,i have received a letter stating that,as from February,it has gone into liquidation,i left the business 1 1/2 years before it closed down and so dont know what the situation is with creditors

[humbleman]

hey

 

Will quickly run through the thread and see if I can throw some light on this,

 

and since posted a reply on Colins thread