CAG CRA S.A.R Club

[renegotiation]

Considering how many are getting responses of "it is not our data" I thought the above was rather comical (hence I posted it).

 

I wasn't shooting the messenger! Good post. I like to go to bed with a smile on my face instead of feeling depressed. :-)

[2Grumpy]

Considering how many are getting responses of "it is not our data" I thought the above was rather comical (hence I posted it).

When will they realise that it is their data, even though they are not the source of the majority of it.

 

For those people who have got their SAR data, does it show all occasions when their data has been accessed either by CRA staff or external customers?

 

Grumpy

[sosumi]

The Debt Buyers and Sellers Group has some interesting News posted:

DBSG Website

Firstly, there is:

Long awaited review of Ofcom’s Statement of Policy on ‘Silent Calls’

Hmm. But there's more. Scroll down the page to the next item:

Ministry of Justice to carry out a Data Sharing Review

 

The Ministry of Justice is to carry out a review on the use and sharing of personal information in the public and private sectors. The review comes in the wake of the HM Revenue & Customs’ loss of 25 million people’s sensitive information.

 

The consultation will consider changes to the Data Protection Act 1998 and will present Government with options for changes to the law. Whilst some of the questions within the consultation may not be applicable, the Ministry is asking for any additional suggestions or observations we may have that may be relevant to the review. This is an ideal opportunity for the Association and its members to highlight the difficulties faced regarding tracing ‘gone-aways’ for example and restrictions to access to data. Restrictions of access to the Voters Roll and a lack of access to data in general results in a number of mistraces, resulting in innocent individuals being contacted over debt.

 

The Association will be responding to the review and would welcome views from members. The consultation can be found by following:

http://www.justice.gov.uk/docs/data-sharing-review-consultation-paper.pdf

This is very interesting.

So, now seems like a good time for an open letter to the Information Commissioner.

 

I've started a draft, and will post here as I do it. If anyone has any ideas please let me know. I will get things wrong, so please feel free to correct me, or make suggestions, anything...

I'm sick and tired of 'rogue debtor' misinformation used by DCAs to disguise their illegal practices. And the Credit Reference Agency involvement is far too unsettling to be ignored. My concentration's a bit scattered so please bear with me, it may take a few days

My feeling is that any personal data should be under tight restrictions, and held by the Government, not privately owned 'companies' whose main business seems to be selling information to other companies, whilst appearing to be a 'consumer's friend'.

I'm not good at anything legal, but will write from the heart. I trust you all enough to know you'll help me with anything I get stuck on

[mrmarmite]

lol we dont want data held by the pillocks in power, there the ones who keep losing it

[mrmarmite]

any way yes of corse all genuine CAG'ers stick together, we wouldnt be here otherwise (unless there are one who are trying to avoid paying debts they actually know (better slip that 1 in)

[humbleman]

This is an ideal opportunity for the Association and its members to highlight the difficulties faced regarding tracing ‘gone-aways’ for example and restrictions to access to data. Restrictions of access to the Voters Roll and a lack of access to data in general results in a number of mistraces, resulting in innocent individuals being contacted over debt.

 

The voters roll, facilitates the process of voting, helps to prevent fraud (in the context of voting) and may also be used to select people jury duty. not for performing any commercial activity.

 

......................................................

[cashins]

To SNPL

 

As per prev post, Building Socs. never register with CRA's as they were worried that other lenders would market their customers. Standard practice with banks has always been to register everything inc. mortgages.

 

Abbey is now Bank of Santander.

 

David

[renegotiation]

The Debt Buyers and Sellers Group has some interesting News posted:

DBSG Website

Firstly, there is:

Quote:

Long awaited review of Ofcom’s Statement of Policy on ‘Silent Calls’

Hmm. But there's more. Scroll down the page to the next item:

Quote:

Ministry of Justice to carry out a Data Sharing Review

 

The Ministry of Justice is to carry out a review on the use and sharing of personal information in the public and private sectors. The review comes in the wake of the HM Revenue & Customs’ loss of 25 million people’s sensitive information.

 

The consultation will consider changes to the Data Protection Act 1998 and will present Government with options for changes to the law. Whilst some of the questions within the consultation may not be applicable, the Ministry is asking for any additional suggestions or observations we may have that may be relevant to the review. This is an ideal opportunity for the Association and its members to highlight the difficulties faced regarding tracing ‘gone-aways’ for example and restrictions to access to data. Restrictions of access to the Voters Roll and a lack of access to data in general results in a number of mistraces, resulting in innocent individuals being contacted over debt.

 

The Association will be responding to the review and would welcome views from members. The consultation can be found by following:

http://www.justice.gov.uk/docs/data-...tion-paper.pdf

This is very interesting.

So, now seems like a good time for an open letter to the Information Commissioner.

 

I've started a draft, and will post here as I do it. If anyone has any ideas please let me know. I will get things wrong, so please feel free to correct me, or make suggestions, anything...

I'm sick and tired of 'rogue debtor' misinformation used by DCAs to disguise their illegal practices. And the Credit Reference Agency involvement is far too unsettling to be ignored. My concentration's a bit scattered so please bear with me, it may take a few days

My feeling is that any personal data should be under tight restrictions, and held by the Government, not privately owned 'companies' whose main business seems to be selling information to other companies, whilst appearing to be a 'consumer's friend'.

I'm not good at anything legal, but will write from the heart. I trust you all enough to know you'll help me with anything I get stuck on

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Very glad to have you on the forums sosumi. You are a force. You are completely right. They will wear whatever 'mask' that suits them at any given time. It is all about money and control. They will use any excuse they can to behave how they like, when they like.

[mrmarmite]

i second that renegotiation

[car2403]

IMHO and with the greatest respect to everyone that has subscribed/contributed to this thread so far, but I feel it's far better to get someone from CAG to officially submit anything that we are considering offering as part of this review. One voice (or a series of voices) is easy to ignore, but I think this thread shows some major concerns for everyone that is part of CAG and should result in an official view from the site owners.

 

More than happy to lend my support, but we will be much stronger - and get MORE notice - if we approach these things in the correct way.

 

Again, just IMHO, so you don't have to agree.

[babybear39]

Our voice needs to be heard.

 

I agree with car2403...

[sosumi]

I also agree

[sosumi]

I read an article in The Independent last week, mentioning that there are nearly 1,000 unregistered DCAs! We've already established it could cost less that £1000 to set up in 'business' as a DCA. What's to stop a new DCA from becoming a member of the Credit Services Association, or DSBG? In which case it would go back to one of the first posts on this thread, of Experian hosting a 'working group' - 'full access to SCOR' - remember?

 

Credit Reference Agencies hold personal data. Do they ring-fence this data? They also hold a lot more information, classed as 'marketing information', which they then 'sell'. They are companies, not government agencies.

[sosumi]

Read SP's post here

about the CRA's privacy policies.

A couple of posts further on, about Experian Autotrace, and the clause in their 'terms and conditions' saying they're not to be mentioned as a source. Why?

[ScarletPimpernel]

Read SP's post here

about the CRA's privacy policies.

A couple of posts further on, about Experian Autotrace, and the clause in their 'terms and conditions' saying they're not to be mentioned as a source. Why?

 

 

Presumably because they wish to conceal the nature of some parts of their business from the public - especially those who use their 'creditexpert' and similar products, and unwittingly feed them information. Also, I suspect that they don't want to have to deal with complaints about inaccurate data.

[renegotiation]

The CSA's regular references to the 'rogue website' issue shows just how worried the debt industry really is. If a DCA has a legal right to collect a debt, and can prove this with the relevant paperwork, then they have various legal remedies available. Short of being advised by a website to buy a canoe and disappear, I do not see how a debt can genuinely be avoided in these circumstances.

 

Of course, what the CSA really don't like is their members being forced to acknowledge that most debtors are 'can't pays' rather than 'won't pays', they don't like those upon whom they prey being aware of their legal rights, and they don't like the questionable methods they use being brought into the open. They also don't want their members to be made to comply with laws and regulations, not least because it proper compliance would lead to increased costs, decreased collections and lower profits.

 

 

 

 

Why, has the Information Commissioner run out of lavatory paper?

 

 

Them 'losing' money = 'bad' advice.

Them 'gaining' money = 'good' advice.

 

It doesn't really matter what the advice is. Moral/immoral, relevant/irrelevant etc.. I think it really is that simple. I remember a couple of months ago on Breakfast TV. there were a couple of women from Capone and Barclays. They were talking about responsible lending and sharing data etc. blah blah blah. They had nice smiling faces. I don't know for sure if these women believed the lies were blatantly telling or not. Maybe they did. The 'real' message was that bad debt had got to a point where they needed to pay more attention to it. They wanted to get more information on customers to try and avoid the higher risk elements of the population. The 'motive' for all this was purely to protect their profit, not their concern for indebted individuals, which is certainly how they tried to present it. Lies.

[elizabeth1]

Them 'losing' money = 'bad' advice.

Them 'gaining' money = 'good' advice.

 

It doesn't really matter what the advice is. Moral/immoral, relevant/irrelevant etc.. I think it really is that simple. I remember a couple of months ago on Breakfast TV. there were a couple of women from Capone and Barclays. They were talking about responsible lending and sharing data etc. blah blah blah. They had nice smiling faces. I don't know for sure if these women believed the lies were blatantly telling or not. Maybe they did. The 'real' message was that bad debt had got to a point where they needed to pay more attention to it. They wanted to get more information on customers to try and avoid the higher risk elements of the population. The 'motive' for all this was purely to protect their profit, not their concern for indebted individuals, which is certainly how they tried to present it. Lies.

 

 

But Doesn't CAP1 particularly target people with poorer credit histories ?

 

Isn't it part of their advertising campaign "Been refused elsewhwhere? Then come to us for a decision in seconds/minutes?" Or did I dream that I saw CAP1's name attached to similar campaignes to attract customers with less than brilliant credit history?

 

I am pretty sure they were advertising "rebuild your credit status with us" type of campaigns - and were giving out all these cards to people people on lower incomes. CAP1 were "cherry picking" such customers delibrately.

 

I posted a link on here a long while back - it was called "Maxed Out" - it was an hour long documentary on how these companies from the USA had targetted their customers. It was delibrately the lower income bracket that they went after as customers = these people had less income, were likely to overspend and not budget, would default giving the companies lots of money in penalties for going over balances, late payments etc.. - these companies wanted the lower incomed customers as they we certainly far more profitable that the wealthier/higher incomed customers who would keep within their higher credit limits. Even students were targeted at college campuses. I was absolutely disgusted after watching this maxed out tv documentary - and I can't find where I posted it - if I find it I will post it again and ask a mod to make it a stickey - as it was such an eye opener on the tactics used in marketing by many of these comapnies.

 

I do NOT dispute that perhaps in recent months this company has begun to look at what they are doing - it's because they learnt such a vast lesson in the USA - CAP1 have had bad publicity.

 

But as we all know CAP1 were like many other USA based companies did purposely target lower incomed people and take advantage of their already bad situations.

[renegotiation]

Well yes, they did that with the 'intent' of making money! They didn't lend to lose. Their greed got the better of them though. They went too far and when they realised that some human beings perhaps couldn't physically/mentally/economically cope with being lifelong cash cows and began to basically 'not pay anything' they had to backtrack. So, they then had the bright idea to try and get more data on their possible targets to distinguish between those that might last and not last the 'Pay Capone For The Rest Of Your Life Race'. It's all money. If the money is rolling in no one wants to stop the gravy train. Most people can be bought for a price. Most people lie to themselves or turn a blind eye if they are getting money. Sod the consequences. That's pretty much it isn't it? And I don't think it should be like that if it is destroying lives. I think the government should be doing more. I find it all very depressing. This whole Experian thing is so Orwellian. It's a bit of a hackneyed phrase nowadays, but I really think it is. Every other website I visit I see Experian. It's almost scary. They could give Tony Blair a good lesson in being a control freak.

[FANTASY CHARGES]

it was on the news just after midnight about due to a single complainant some catalogue company or something had to withdraw an advertising flyer saying the card whatever it was ..... "was your new best friend"

 

can anyone fill in the details .........

 

note for elizabeth re "I am pretty sure they were advertising "I am pretty sure they were advertising "rebuild your credit status with us" " "

 

it really is time a formal complaint was made about experians tv advert about rebuilding your credit status ....................

 

 

if a single complaint above ............... can ..................

[ODC]

It amazes me that Experian can get away with it. Im surprised the ASA havent got involved. Most of us on here know what happens when you apply to Experian for a copy of your Credit Report.

 

1. You give them more information about yourself

 

2. Any updated information is brought to the attention of the DCAs

 

3. You get loads of offers for loans and Credit Cards that you neither need nor want

 

4. Letters start arriving from DCAs demanding money from you for Statute barred debts whether or not they are yours just because you have a similar name

[FANTASY CHARGES]

They have us nailed?

 

I was watching a video film on how these companies operate (CAP1. MBNA, PROVIDIAN ETC..) in the USA and how they target people - I was so alarmed by it really - from student to pensioners - they have is sorted and nailed really - and all the tricks they used etc.. to make money from us - so scummy really. This video "Maxed Out" is long over an hour - but is a real insight as to how these companies operate etc.. - it'll make you glad you saw it - but angry as how vulnerable we all are!!

 

Maxed Out

 

 

I do wonder whether this video ought to be made a stickey somewhere as it really is an eye opener - we can all learn from it.

 

 

fantasy finds everything !!!

[sosumi]

From Experian's website, as statement of corporate responsibility:

"We interpret this as taking due regard for society's expectations of large companies. We believe these expectations to be for steadily higher standards of conduct and for taking increased responsibility for the direct and indirect effects of our operations."

 

...

[sosumi]

Posted by humbleman:

Originally Posted by sosumi

This is an ideal opportunity for the Association and its members to highlight the difficulties faced regarding tracing ‘gone-aways’ for example and restrictions to access to data. Restrictions of access to the Voters Roll and a lack of access to data in general results in a number of mistraces, resulting in innocent individuals being contacted over debt.

 

The voters roll, facilitates the process of voting, helps to prevent fraud (in the context of voting) and may also be used to select people jury duty. not for performing any commercial activity.

......................... ......................... ....

[sosumi]

and again, quoting from the DBSG:

The consultation will consider changes to the Data Protection Act 1998 and will present Government with options for changes to the law. Whilst some of the questions within the consultation may not be applicable, the Ministry is asking for any additional suggestions or observations we may have that may be relevant to the review. This is an ideal opportunity for the Association and its members to highlight the difficulties faced regarding tracing ‘gone-aways’ for example and restrictions to access to data. Restrictions of access to the Voters Roll and a lack of access to data in general results in a number of mistraces, resulting in innocent individuals being contacted over debt.

 

[sosumi]

From Credit Today:

Electoral roll registration rises - 09/01/2008

 

Consumers are taking a greater interest in how their personal data is used, according to business information specialist Equifax.

 

In its annual update of electoral roll data it found a marginal increase in the number of people registered to vote from 2006 to 2007. The information is used by reference agencies to build up data, from which creditors make lending decisions. The number of people registering has generally been declining.

 

"We have seen the number of adults registered to vote increase by just under one per cent, with the London Boroughs showing some of the highest rises", said Neil Munroe, external affairs director. "One reason for this uplift could be the Electoral Administration Act, combined with local councils making greater efforts to encourage people to register to vote over the last couple of years. A rise in the immigrant population registering to vote could be another factor in the increase, with all Commonwealth and EU citizens eligible to vote in the UK."

 

However, the analysis also showed an increase in the proportion of adults choosing to opt out of the Edited Electoral Roll, which is available to commercial organisations for purposes other than credit checking. Year on year, this has increased by 3 per cent to 39.75 per cent, possibly reflecting a greater consumer interest in how personal data is used. However, Equifax is warning that consumer misperceptions about the Edited Electoral Roll could have an impact on their ability to make purchases online.

 

Munroe said: "There are some risks in opting out of the Edited Electoral Roll. This is especially the case if consumers are planning to do more of their shopping online, as it is used by many companies for identity verification purposes in order to combat identity fraud. If an individual’s name is not on the Edited Electoral Roll they may have trouble shopping online or completing important identity verification processes, such as for money laundering checks, which are required by many organisations today."