Duffers mum v Sainsburys Bank

[Duffers Mum]

http://i750.photobucket.com/albums/xx143/DuffersMum/Sainsburys/003.jpg

 

This is the agreement they sent, the original lot of T&C's that they sent are shown on the first page of this thread #15 I will go and find the most recent set that they sent and get them uploaded shortly.

 

The 12% is the figure that Cabot quoted on their correspondence, i think its the standard rate they charge..but am sure i wasn't paying that when I got out the credit card!

 

I only ever received 2 DN and these are again shown on the first page of this thread, one gives a straight 14 days, but allows no time for the service, the other one allows 5 days!

[Duffers Mum]

T&C's which they say are from 2002..I think they probably are..I hope you can read them:-

 

http://i750.photobucket.com/albums/xx143/DuffersMum/Sainsburys/Terms1.jpg

 

http://i750.photobucket.com/albums/xx143/DuffersMum/Sainsburys/002-2.jpg

 

http://i750.photobucket.com/albums/xx143/DuffersMum/Sainsburys/003-2.jpg

 

http://i750.photobucket.com/albums/xx143/DuffersMum/Sainsburys/004-1.jpg

[dadofholly]

Ok - if the DN's are not compliant then they can not enforce the agreement in Court until they send one that does comply.

 

If the 12% was not part of your original agreement then they cannot charge this amount - unless the original rate was variable - and they have sent you a notice of variation. (They won't have done this i bet).

 

If Cabot sent you the wrong T&C's when they responded to your CCA request then they have not complied with your CCA request - and so cannot enforce the agreement until they do.

 

This is what they need to do to comply with a CCA .

 

Have Sainsbury's told you to who, and when, they sold the agreement?

S.78 request requirements.pdf

[dadofholly]

They are the terms and conditions from seperate agreements and not the full T&C's

 

Where is the info on your right to cancel?

[Duffers Mum]

The right to cancel bit is showing on the document in post #174 above. I'm totally confused about this..its driving me insane! I did receive a NOA from Sainsbury's which was sent by Cabot. The only interest rates mentioned are those in the t&cs in post. I take it from reading your post that Cabot should not have been charging me interest until they sent me the correct T&C'S? But now they have sent them (according to them and I can't say they are not correct) they can charge interest from that date but not at 12%? Sorry for appearing so stupid!

[dadofholly]

That doc does not show your right to cancel - it only says that you have a right to cancel - but that the terms of your right to cancel will follow.

 

That NOA was probably not from Sainsbury's - did Sainsbury's send you a copy in their reply to your SAR? That is why i think you need to contact Sainsbury and ask them to who, and when, the agreement was sold.

 

Cabot should not be charging you 12% interest full stop - they have no right to just make up a figure and try and charge you for it - You should report all this to the Office of Fair Trading.

 

Forget about WHEN they sent you the T&C's i don't believe that is relevant to when they can and cannot charge you interest - the issue is the amount they are trying to charge and if they are entitled to do so - and they are not.

 

Regardless of that - they have not supplied compliant DN's - and have not satisfactorily responded to your CCA request - as such they cannot enforce the debt in Court.

 

i would just ignore them for now - but contact Sainsbury to find out when, and to who they sold the debt - and to confirm this in writing - and ask them to provide you with a copy of the NOA.

[Duffers Mum]

That doc does not show your right to cancel - it only says that you have a right to cancel - but that the terms of your right to cancel will follow.

 

That NOA was probably not from Sainsbury's - did Sainsbury's send you a copy in their reply to your SAR? That is why i think you need to contact Sainsbury and ask them to who, and when, the agreement was sold.

 

Cabot should not be charging you 12% interest full stop - they have no right to just make up a figure and try and charge you for it - You should report all this to the Office of Fair Trading.

 

Forget about WHEN they sent you the T&C's i don't believe that is relevant to when they can and cannot charge you interest - the issue is the amount they are trying to charge and if they are entitled to do so - and they are not.

 

Regardless of that - they have not supplied compliant DN's - and have not satisfactorily responded to your CCA request - as such they cannot enforce the debt in Court.

 

i would just ignore them for now - but contact Sainsbury to find out when, and to who they sold the debt - and to confirm this in writing - and ask them to provide you with a copy of the NOA.

 

 

Thank you I did send Sainsbury's an SAR to which they have responded so I will have a look through all the stufff again later and see what I can find out in respect of the NOA (pretty sure it wasn't in the bundle they sent through). When you say "the issue is the amount they are trying to charge and if they are entitled to do so and they are not" is that because it doesn't state it in the agreement (I couldn't find anything stating that in the T&CS but then it might be worded carefully and I missed it)?

[dadofholly]

On the interest issue - The amount you can be charged will be as per your original T&C's - now the rate of interest may be variable, but even if it is, they have to notify you of any variation in writing.

[coledog]

You must chase up that SAR from Sainsbury. As DOH says, it is worth ringing them and demanding some information. Tell them you have an outstanding SAR request.

 

I think that the fact that you are fighting this will put Cabot off but definitely report them to OFT for pursuing you for a debt which you are disputing

[Duffers Mum]

Sainsburys did send me the info from the SAR request, I did look through it when I received it, but didn't really know what I was looking for, so i'll go and dig it all out again.

 

I definately am disputing the amount of the debt with Cabot as its £2K more than it was when they took it over and why should they be able to charge interest and make money like that when they paid a pittance for the account. that they turned down my F&F of 10% when they knew I was unemployed (because I sent them a copy of my JSA award, minus the personal details obviously), so i really don't know what the hope to gain from it, apart from maybe a charging order at some point, which is obviously a worry for me and DH.

 

I will report back when i've gone through the SAR stuff again shortly. Once again thank you for your input

[Duffers Mum]

Have checked through everything Sainsbury's sent me and there is no NOA and no copies of the DN, there is also no copy of the T&C's that Cabot have provided as being relevant at time account was opened. There is a screen print of when they sold this to Cabot, but no letter addressed to me advising of same.

[citizenB]

Duffer's mum, have the provided you with a communication log/diary of events? It should look like a computerised diary which shows all the actions taken.. letters will be identified probably by code.. but we can probably work those out..

[Duffers Mum]

Duffer's mum, have the provided you with a communication log/diary of events? It should look like a computerised diary which shows all the actions taken.. letters will be identified probably by code.. but we can probably work those out..

 

Oh there are lots and lots of pages with things on that I don't understand but they have provided an list of what all the abbreviations etc mean, I will look through later and see what I can find

[Happyhippy1959]

Duffers Mum, I had the same problem with Crabot with an old Yorkshire Visa Card, they were adding on 12% but could not supply CCA due to age of account, Now it seems to me without a job, a dodgy CCA to say the least these muppetts know they have a lemon, time for you to baton down the hatch write once more and say, see you in court, Account in Dispute you have not sent me what I believe is a valid CCA... As one Cager said, if and it is such a big if they are daft enough to go for it defend it on the CCA not being supplied. Bet your bottom dollar they will not see the inside of the court room, going through the same as you with them on two barclay accounts, a Reconstructed one full of holes no address no name nothing just a screen shot, even the dates don't add up,,, only letter back is IN DISPUTE TILL YOU PRODUCE VALID CCA IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT SEE YOU IN COURT...

 

Put it behind you, you are unemployed I would offer 25p if I were you... simples

[Duffers Mum]

I did report Cabot to the OFT and have now received their (standard) response...however the more people who complain the more notice they may take so I'm glad I did it! Have been busy this week but will write a final letter over the weekend and see what their response is!

[Duffers Mum]

Haven't got round yet to writing to Cabot, but received another letter from them today..headed "Important Notice" Plese do not ignore! They go on to say that my account continues to be in default, despite previous correspondence from them blah blah blah...According the outstanding balance is payable immediately. They then go on to say, again, that they will either instruct an external DCA (surely thats what they are themselves ) or commence legal action to recover the debt if my account meets their litigation criteria!

 

So where do I stand, they are requesting the full outstanding balance on the back of a dodgy DN from Sainsburys...is that something I can use to my advantage? Or can that only be done with the original creditor?

 

I guess now is the time to write back to them, and reiterate i'm unemployed, with a disability and with no income so what do they expect me to do..rob a bank?

 

If anybody can help with this i'd be very grateful.

 

Thought it interesting though their sentence about if an account meets their litigation criteria..never seen that before..something new maybe?

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

A lot of the companies in the 'debt industry'' have to arms,

one a debt purchaser the other a debt collector, they will

at times spread their risk by assigning a debt they own to another

debt collection agency, this also gives the debtor a false implicaton

that a ''higher authority''is now chasing them for payment.

I think I would send them the 'prove it' letter from the CAG

library just for fun you can tell them the full score after that.

[Duffers Mum]

Thank you

[Duffers Mum]

Quick update, received another letter from Cabot this morning, offering me a reduction in the outstanding balance unfortunately i still can't afford what they are offering. It is quite an interesting offer though as it is much lower than what the outstanding balance was when they purchased the account, and before they added a shed load of charges themselves. Should I look optimistically on this as possibly meaning they know they don't have the proper paperwork and wouldn't stand much chance if it went to court? Are they likely to come back with a further reduced offer do you think as if I could get this one paid off and dealt with it would be a weight off my mind?

[Duffers Mum]

Anyone?

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

It may well be best to see this off now as they may

just go back to the original amount and/or sell on.

[Duffers Mum]

I would very much like to, unfortunately I don't the sort of money they are asking for! I was just wondering whether their offering me a discount meant they didn't think it would get very far if it went to court the F&F I offered them previously was turned down flat by them (10%) this is more like 6 x that amount

[brokebutnotbeatn]

you could try the F&F again at 10%...nothing ventured, nothing gained.

[Happyhippy1959]

agh Duffers mum, when they write to you they write to me... Same letters as well.... I have stuck to my guns it's a pre 2007 agreement they have no agreement just a blank load of rubbish terms that cover god know's what. I just reply back see you in court end off. If you think you can win with a set of screen shots go ahead.

 

I have not had any offer of discount as yet, and Crapbot has said they wont talk or enter into any correspondence with me anymore..... Just stick to your guns, I had a blank recon sent and I saw of Argos when they tried that one with Bryan Carter even started the court proceedings, soon as they knew your going to fight its off the radar, they sent to another DCA who had the letter ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE Simples really. Don't let em bully you....

[Duffers Mum]

I have been told that what they have sent me isn't compliant, but I'm also aware that judges don't seem to care about that anymore, when they write to me I just ignore them, however this is the first time i've received a letter offering a discount...

 

I could reoffer the F&F from before, without prejudice, I suppose.