Honeymoon upset - Hearing on 19/12/06 - **RESULT**

[kirky]

Hi. Booked a holiday with Teletext on line, with Medinland. When we phoned them after finding a holiday on line, we expressed a need for a double bedded room, as this would be our honeymoon. The guy said, yeah, no problem, will make sure you get double bed. So, on the strength of that, we paid for the holiday...get to Costa Brava to find that the hotel don't even have double beds, so despite our complaint to manager at hotel and subsequent phone call to Medinland, nothing could be done. We were none too pleased and it didnt go down too well, sleeping in separate beds on our honeymoon! I have tried to get compensation from them, but they just keep saying that a request such as double bed, top floor, sea view etc is just a request and cannot be guaranteed. They just won't listen when I say, but we wouldn't have booked that particular holiday had we been informed of the fact that no doubles were available in Spain....I feel I am going around in circles and need some advice on where to go now. I have faxed everything to ABTA, but I just feel they will come back with the same response.

[Rich44]

I have to say that whilst I agree with you that ive never come across a double bed in Spanish resorts but that doesnt excuse the holiday company they should have told you your request couldnt be honoured.

 

I dont know if you have a case as such but sorry about what has happened to your honeymoon, I hope you still had a good time (did you push the beds together we've done that before whilst in Lanzarote).

 

Good luck with it

[kirky]

Hi, yeah, we pushed the beds together, but hung on for dear life as they slipped apart on the tiled floor! I haven't been away much, so wasn't aware that double beds weren't standard - and I did express that wish as part of a honeymoon - so they should have at least suggested an alternate country or hotel if they couldn't meet my stipulation, surely? Anyway - we're going to Turkey in September and this hotel DOES have doubles, it will be like a second honeymoon I guess.

Thanks for the interest - if anything comes of it, I will post to let you know.

[Rich44]

No I agree with you if all the hotels have single beds then they should have told you and suggested another location, I hope you manage to get somewhere with it

[karenbrooks]

Hi

I work as a personal Travel Advisor and can advise you that unless your confirmation actually confirms a "Double Bed" there isn't a lot you can do about it. Your confirmation may have said "Request Double" but this is not guaranteed.

 

As a rule when I'm booking honeymoon I ask the clients if it is a priority, if it is then I would only look at hotels with guaranteed double beds

Karen Brooks

Personal Travel Advisors

ABTA G1147

[Bookworm]

I disagree. If OP made a specific request for double bed and was told it could be done, the holiday was quite clearly mis-sold.

 

I would suggest making a SAR under the DPA, send £10, specifically requesting a copy of the phone conversation when you made the booking. I suggest you think what you want in terms of compensation: Refund, part-refund, what?

 

Then strongly worded letter to say that unless you get satisfactory response, you'll take them to small claims. As the deciding factor is balance of probabilities, a judge would have to decide whether on probability, you indeed made a request for a double bed for your honeymoon or not (whether you have copy of convo or not) and decide accordingly, should it get that far.

[sb2675]

The terms & conditions of Medinland Ltd quite clearly state:

 

9 – SPECIAL REQUESTS

 

Special requests are not guaranteed, but we will always do our best to comply with any such requests, provided they are made well in advance of your date of departure.

 

By booking the holiday you would have agreed to these.

 

However, as you booked through Teletext, it is worth checking their policy too.

 

Having set up numerous tour operators and written t&c's, this is a standard condition.

 

If, as you say, you were told this wouldn't be a problem, you may wish to ask them for a transcript of the conversation. You may find that if the consultant who booked your holiday was found to have actually said it was confirmed, they MAY offer a gesture of goodwill.

 

Take another look at your invoice. Usually, tour ops will put requests on the invoice, followed by 'not guaranteed'.

[Bookworm]

Unfair term: If OP has booked on phone, she can not be aware of written T&Cs.

 

She paid on the strength of what the representative said, and he said he would ensure it was done. Therefore, the holiday was mis-sold.

 

IMO, there is a very good case for pushing it through, as previously outlined.

[sb2675]

Hi. Booked a holiday with Teletext on line

 

I am only giving an opinion from someone who has been in tour operations for years and has had to produce evidence for defending such claims.

 

This is a very regular complaint, and yes may well have been mis-sold by the consultant over the phone, but you need evidence!

 

Thought it would help to give the other side of the argument so that 'kirky' is fully prepared.

 

My comments also stand. By booking you are agreeing to the terms and conditions.

[Bookworm]

That's ok, I'm also only giving an opinion.

 

And evidence would help, yes. That's why I suggested OP make a DPA request. If she can get a transcript of the phone call, and it corroborates her, it would be more than sufficient.

If she can't, as I said, in the Small Claims Court, a judge would decide on balance of probabilities.

Is it more probable that she asked for a double bed on her honeymoon and was told she would get it, than NOT asked for it?

Is it more probable that she asked for a double bed, was told it was not guaranteed, then proceeded to book anyway, than not?

 

That's what a judge will base his decision in a case where there is no actual proof one way or another.

 

As for Terms and conditions, I am DELIGHTED that they do not supersede the law of this land, or none of us would be able to get our money back from the banks. By booking over the phone, she can not have agreed to the written T&Cs, that would be an unfair term in law. It may be argued that when sent the written T&Cs, if she was, she might have read the T&Cs, and checked with T/O and subsequently cancelled (if she was indeed given the possibility to do so at no financial loss for herself), but there is a court decision (regarding Estoppel) that clearly ruled that it was not the customer's responsability to check his statements, and I'm pretty confident the same rule would apply in OP's case.

 

I'm not refuting your knowledge. But this site is about empowering the customer, and I'm pretty sure that there'll be plenty more cases where people who thought they had no chance against companies like this, will be able to reclaim the right. Their right. Damn right.

[joneshousehold]

The problem Bookworm is that people who work in an industry, and I'm pretty sure the travel industry is the same, are told by the powers that be that there are no grounds for compensation. The staff just do as they are told and never question what they are told. If it never goes to court it never really gets challenged. That's what the banks have done all this while. I think you are right as I cannot see how anyone booking over the phone could agree to written T&C's.

 

Kirky, I think Bookworm's advice is good and you should start by getting that DPA request in. I would be inclined to make a decision as to how to proceed after getting the DPA reply back because you will then know the strength of your evidence.

 

Keep us informed as I am keen to know how you get on. Good luck.

[heidi1]

IMO, as a Travel consultant my-self, that you need to get the name of the consultant who booked the holiday for you. If you didn't take record of that, you can find out quite easily by calling the company up and asking them.

 

They will ask for booking references etc etc... The guy that booked your holiday then needs a serious talking to, because he cannot say that he will def. sort you a dble bed, when he knows fine well he cannot guarantee it! He at the very least needs to make you aware that it is a request, and they can never be guaranteed! Unfortunatley, its your word against his at this stage. But if you make your voice heard and talk to his superiors and demand that something be done (if only so it doesn't happen again to someone else).

 

I for one would never say something like that in order to 'get a booking', I have a good reputation with my clients and I like it to stay that way! Honesty gains respect in my book! Shame others aren't too concerned about what other people think of them! Not good business sense.

 

Hope you get this one sorted. Congratulations by the way!

 

Heidi

[kirky]

Hi everyone, thanks very much for all the advice and support. The invoice states "double bed needed" - not requested. It's a brilliant idea sending for the transcript of the booking - it will definitely prove I stated that we needed the double as it was our honeymoon and that no where during the conversation did the guy say it couldn't be guaranteed.

Will set about this and keep you informed. Sorry for the delay - been otherwise engaged with a dodgy new car! That's another thread I think...car only 3 months old and the brakes have failed - no accident or injury thank God, but I am, apparently, entitled to a full refund or replacement - I do not have to have it repaired...so I'm on the case tomorrow. This site has really given me the guts to go out there and do something about injustice! Thanks again

[kirky]

Hi folks

Done the DPA letter....will keep you posted

[pmhread]

Best of luck with this.... as if you wouldn't require a double bed on your honeymoon sheesh...

 

The seperate beds come later

[Rich44]

Well maybe they thought you would only need space on the bed for one body it being the honeymoon n all

 

lol

[kirky]

Well maybe they thought you would only need space on the bed for one body it being the honeymoon n all

 

lol

 

Ha ha! I see your point - but still!

[Rich44]

Oh no totally agree with you after all cant be doing that kinda thing all the time, you need to sleep too hehehehe, go get em

[kirky]

We might get away with very little sleep if we were in our 20s, but he can't cope with such a huge demand at his age! Me, on the other hand....well...

...still, I asked for a double bed, I wanted one. Too bloody old to be doing acrobatics between singles! I nearly ended up on the floor several times - I should get compensation just for the humiliation!

Will post as soon as I get a response from them - they should have my letter by now.

[kirky]

I have a response from Medinland. They deny having recorded my conversation and have returned my cheque.

I have now decided to take this further and have put together a letter - before I post it, could someone please let me know if this is ok and that I have used the jargon in context?

 

"Thank you for your letter, dated 26th June 2006, received today and the return of my cheque for £10.00 which was to be payment for the Disclosure of Data. If, as you say you did not record my telephone conversation, then I must now take this to a court and let the judge decide – on a balance of probability - whether I did, indeed express a need to have a double bed whilst on my honeymoon. I think it is obvious from the fact that your representative put “double bed needed”, rather than “requested” on the invoice. Your representative clearly made promissory estoppel and while I understand you feel you are not liable in anyway because of your “Terms and Conditions”, I feel a judge would agree with me that terms and conditions do not supercede the Law in this country and when booking over a telephone, I cannot possibly read all of the terms and conditions, but have to rely on the honesty and integrity of your company.

May I remind you: Estoppel in English law is defined as: "a principle of justice and of equity. It comes to this: when a man, by his words or conduct, has led another to believe in a particular state of affairs, he will not be allowed to go back on it when it would be unjust or inequitable for him to do so." In other words, your company made a promise to me at the time of the contract and has since rescinded that promise, you therefore caused me to suffer loss and inconvenience, for which I must be compensated.

I intend to submit a claim in court if I have not heard from you with a satisfactory response within the next 14 days. “Satisfactory” would be a full refund, or an alternate holiday – with a double bed."

Please let me know - I'll post it tomorrow, but would like some advice on it's content!

Thanks

[pmhread]

LOL... can't help with the legalisms but lovin the last bit

[Bookworm]

Very nice. Couple of points, though.

 

Once you have made a SAR, they can not just return your cheque and say "no can do". They have BY LAW to supply you ALL data held on you within 40 days. I would suggest you write back and tell them that it would not be wise to play fast and loose with the DPA, as the IC takes a dim view of such shenanigans, and that time is still ticking on your DPA reques, and that as at today's date, they have x days left to comply. Do NOT let them get away with this!

 

Secondly, don't forget to mention that it is highly unreasonable to be held by written T&Cs when you book over the phone, and that you have no choice but to trust what their own employee states when booking that way, it creates a fiduciary relationship betwen the agency and yourself, and they have breached that relationship. Try to incorporate that into your letter.

 

Otherwise, very nice. I wouldn't have thought about Estoppel in that context, but you seem to know what you're on about. I bow to your greater knowledge!

[kirky]

Hi Bookworm

Thanks for that - of course you're right and I will develop another letter to send today and send my cheque back to them demanding all data held on me. As for the estoppel - you suggested it in your earlier post and I had to look it up to find out what it was - that's why I needed some advice on how I had used it. BUT! If you think it sounds good, then I must have done a good bit of research and it will surely disturb Ms Louise Smith when she reads her reply!

I'll get on to it now and keep the forum posted about the result.

Thanks again:)

[Bookworm]

Hi Bookworm

As for the estoppel - you suggested it in your earlier post

 

I did? Have I been typing in my sleep again? I swear, I have been doing this so much I just spout things off the top of my head nowadays!!!

[kirky]

Didn't a great man once say there was a fine line between genius and insanity?

Either way, you're a source of infinite wisdom - thank you!