Philips Bailiffs

[nightsurf]

hi guys,thanks for your replies recently they have been most welcome,esp re -philips.i have been paying philips for approx 2 years now on a liability order by the csa (child support agency),although i have argued with the csa the assesment they made against me was wrong,i had a liability order for £10,000,but i have been paying them at £60 a week and it has reduced to approx £3,500,philips have never been in my house,which is not owned by me or any of the contents,i have been having a few problems with philips,i was laid off work in may due to ill health,i have been trying to get my payments reduced but philips wont accept my offer of £20 per week ,and say i will and must pay the full amount,or they will send a bailif and locksmith to my house,i have contacted the csa and they tell me its in the hands of philips and to deal with them,my last payment sent was for £20, and philips didnt like it,they asked for proof that i was claiming incapacity benefit which i sent them,but they replied saying not acceptable. what if i continue to pay just £20 per week will it mean they can refuse my offer or threaten to come to my house,iam at a loss at the minuite,but iam learning for you guys and fully appreaciate all i have learned from you thanks guys.(would it be an idea to request a reduction to the csa?and get them to inform philips that it would be ok to have a lower payment method due to my circumstances.) but in my experience with the csa they dont seem to care.

[chrismc]

Thank you

 

I already have the break down of costs, I became suspicious when we made a large payment but the outstanding debt figures did'nt add up. I like you questioned B&S and they basically told me tough, which left me very angry but without the knowledge not much else I thought I could do.

Do you think I should send the prelim letter now and copy in my Berkshire council?

I want to claim back the double fees for 2 account numbers aswell, but as this is an extremely grey area at the moment may just go for the £255 van fee.

 

regards:)

Hi

 

Work out what you think the true and corrrect fees that they are allowed to charge should be based on the relevant fee schedules and send a LBA for the rest, if you are trying to claim back van fees you may aswell try and claim back everything else you think is excessive.

 

Bear in mind that if they make separate visits they can charge certain fees, but if for instance they are collecting for two or three accounts and use the same visit then how can they legitimately say they can charge 2x or 3x fees. This is what they did for me and are still arguing they can do it, but they just don't get it at all!! so keep on fighting.

 

BTW no point trying to reclaim some fees now then deceide later on you should be claiming more, may aswell go for it all in one go.

 

Chris

[chrismc]

hi guys,thanks for your replies recently they have been most welcome,esp re -philips.i have been paying philips for approx 2 years now on a liability order by the csa (child support agency),although i have argued with the csa the assesment they made against me was wrong,i had a liability order for £10,000,but i have been paying them at £60 a week and it has reduced to approx £3,500,philips have never been in my house,which is not owned by me or any of the contents,i have been having a few problems with philips,i was laid off work in may due to ill health,i have been trying to get my payments reduced but philips wont accept my offer of £20 per week ,and say i will and must pay the full amount,or they will send a bailif and locksmith to my house,i have contacted the csa and they tell me its in the hands of philips and to deal with them,my last payment sent was for £20, and philips didnt like it,they asked for proof that i was claiming incapacity benefit which i sent them,but they replied saying not acceptable. what if i continue to pay just £20 per week will it mean they can refuse my offer or threaten to come to my house,iam at a loss at the minuite,but iam learning for you guys and fully appreaciate all i have learned from you thanks guys.(would it be an idea to request a reduction to the csa?and get them to inform philips that it would be ok to have a lower payment method due to my circumstances.) but in my experience with the csa they dont seem to care.

 

If you are making a payment of £20 then even if it went to court which is very doubtfull then a reasonable judge would see your side of it, it is not like you are refusing to pay whatsoever.

 

Has this ever been to court already before it went to Philips? if not ignore what they say about locksmiths etc etc they cannot do anything at all. They can only break in if you have already let or invited them in to your house. In addition if the house does not belong to you and neither does the furniture etc what could they gain by breaking in? NOTHING!!

 

Just keep paying what you can legitimately can afford each week and there is nothing they can do whatsoever. They will tell you they can and threaten they can,......but the fact is they cannot!!

[sherysmmns]

Thank you Chris & Martin your responses are greatly appreciated and promise not to hog your thread lol.....

 

I have today hand delivered the first letter to the Berkshire council and sent a LBA to Bristow & Sutor (recorded del of course) for the total amount of £375 like you said go for all now as I do feel the double fee charge is so unreasonable:-x

Will keep you posted on any significant responses.

All the best:D

[chrismc]

Thank you Chris & Martin your responses are greatly appreciated and promise not to hog your thread lol.....

 

I have today hand delivered the first letter to the Berkshire council and sent a LBA to Bristow & Sutor (recorded del of course) for the total amount of £375 like you said go for all now as I do feel the double fee charge is so unreasonable:-x

Will keep you posted on any significant responses.

All the best:D

 

Good...just make sure your figures are as accurate as you can....they will probably fob you off but eventually you will have to decide whether to take it further or not eg court or detailed assessment.

 

In my case they refunded 2 x van fees for £80 each...but it is all the rest I am after aswell.

 

Chris

[fidji]

I just want to thank all you wonderful people. I have been paying Philips for the last 3 years over unpaid council tax and the amount never went down, it just went up! They then increase my payments from £40 per month to £400 per month without telling me and then said I was in arrears and sent the bailiff out to my mother (who is 69) and scared her, he actually told her it was for council tax arrears as well, even though he shouldn't have done that as she had informed him that I didn't live there and he had no idea that she was my mother!

 

I think you are having some effect on them and as they actually sent me a statement of my accounts detailing all all their charges including walking possession and levy fees which I had no idea that they had taken on my property having never been in my house! The bailiff actually scared me by saying he could enter my property when I wasn't there to take my things, now I realise that he really did want to scare me.

 

Anyway, I have now sent them letters by recorded delivery and the council demanding that they take off all the fees apart from the first two visit fees. I will also be paying the council direct through their website, although, after removal of excess charges (47%!), there is very little left to pay.

 

I am so grateful for all the wonderful advice here, it has made it possible for me to sleep at night without worrying.

[chrismc]

Fidji

 

I started this to get back at the bailifs that gave me hell last year, a I knew they were ripping me off, but was not sure how to go about getting them to pay me back as no one I knew had ever gone after them in this way.

 

The battle is still not won, by a long way but at least I am getting there slowly and giving them some of their own medicine.

 

In the process lots of people on here have also now realised that what these people get away with is totally out of order, so I am glad my experiences and posts are helping you also.

 

Go after them and claim as much back as you can, as you have absolutely nothing to lose and everything to gain.

 

Chris

[fidji]

Chris

 

I am just totally sick of people ripping me off (I see you are going after Barclays as well, so am I!). I hate owing anybody any money and try my best to pay everything.

 

It is people like us who do try and pay what we can who get ripped off most. Some people don't seem to care and never pay anything and get away with it. It's people like us who are honest and do our very best who get ripped off all the time!

 

It is great when you realise you are not alone and other people are in the same situation and fighting back.

 

Best of luck

Fidji

[chrismc]

Chris

 

 

It is great when you realise you are not alone and other people are in the same situation and fighting back.

 

Best of luck

Fidji

 

Yes there are a lot here in similar or worse positions....but at least there are ways now of fighting back and reclaiming what should never have been taken in the first place.

 

Good luck with yours

Chris

[nightsurf]

hi guys with reference to my recent thread re philips bailifs and the child suport agency.some good advice would be helpful again,i contacted the child support agency and asked for a reduction in my weekly payments to philips due to being off work ill and recieving incapacity benefits,they said they would return my call in the day after they had looked in to my case.but no call was recieved,so 1 week later i decided to pay philips my £20 pounds as an act of good faith and sent this letter and my payment by recorded delivery,( also a copy to the csa),of the letter sent to philips,philips reply was again the payment was not acceptable and to clear the arears of the part payment immediatly,or action would be taken against me.i ignored the letter and again contacted the csa by telephone again, they said they would look in to my case and return my call, again no call from them,so i again sent my £20 pound payment and told them again i would be willing to pay £20 pounds as an act of good faith ( this being the second week i had paid £20) i pointed out to them that for nearly 2 years now my payments of £60 were made regular and no payments were missed.this week i sent a data protection request to the csa giving them the 40 day time allowence.i recived a letter from philips saying that my £20 was acceptable and to start payments of the £20 in the next 2 weeks,so far so good, i thought well i have already started to pay £20 any way,then came the catch this week philips wrote to me saying that i had broken the payment arrangement of £60 and that the £20 was no longer acceptable:eek: ( i had been paying £60 a week and reduced it to £20 as my per my previous thread ) it seems they are trying to get me in catch 22 by saying i had stated paying £20 with out them giving acceptance to do so,and that my total outstanding debt was £4,200, i have reciepts totaling £6,700 the original debt was £10.000,taking £6.700 from the original debt leaves a balance of £3,300 where they get thier figures from i dont know seems they are trying to con me now ,they have never been to the house all they have done is send me about 7 letters surley that doesnt include thier charges on top of the original debt does it.what do i do now send them a letter, or pay the outstanding payment to start the new payment of £20 in 2 weeks as they agrread to or just carry on paying the £20. i dont have a clue now,i visited my gp this week and told him the problems iam having and he said my health isnt getting any better,i told him iam being stressed to the limit by philips and the csa and havnt got a clue sorry for going on guys ,but iam completely lost.

[chrismc]

hi guys with reference to my recent thread re philips bailifs and the child suport agency.some good advice would be helpful again,i contacted the child support agency and asked for a reduction in my weekly payments to philips due to being off work ill and recieving incapacity benefits,they said they would return my call in the day after they had looked in to my case.but no call was recieved,so 1 week later i decided to pay philips my £20 pounds as an act of good faith and sent this letter and my payment by recorded delivery,( also a copy to the csa),of the letter sent to philips,philips reply was again the payment was not acceptable and to clear the arears of the part payment immediatly,or action would be taken against me.i ignored the letter and again contacted the csa by telephone again, they said they would look in to my case and return my call, again no call from them,so i again sent my £20 pound payment and told them again i would be willing to pay £20 pounds as an act of good faith ( this being the second week i had paid £20) i pointed out to them that for nearly 2 years now my payments of £60 were made regular and no payments were missed.this week i sent a data protection request to the csa giving them the 40 day time allowence.i recived a letter from philips saying that my £20 was acceptable and to start payments of the £20 in the next 2 weeks,so far so good, i thought well i have already started to pay £20 any way,then came the catch this week philips wrote to me saying that i had broken the payment arrangement of £60 and that the £20 was no longer acceptable:eek: ( i had been paying £60 a week and reduced it to £20 as my per my previous thread ) it seems they are trying to get me in catch 22 by saying i had stated paying £20 with out them giving acceptance to do so,and that my total outstanding debt was £4,200, i have reciepts totaling £6,700 the original debt was £10.000,taking £6.700 from the original debt leaves a balance of £3,300 where they get thier figures from i dont know seems they are trying to con me now ,they have never been to the house all they have done is send me about 7 letters surley that doesnt include thier charges on top of the original debt does it.what do i do now send them a letter, or pay the outstanding payment to start the new payment of £20 in 2 weeks as they agrread to or just carry on paying the £20. i dont have a clue now,i visited my gp this week and told him the problems iam having and he said my health isnt getting any better,i told him iam being stressed to the limit by philips and the csa and havnt got a clue sorry for going on guys ,but iam completely lost.

 

I would continue making the £20 payment, and also send a DPA/SAR request to Philips, also make sure in that request you clearly state you want a FULL and COMPLETE breakdown of all their charges and fees.

 

Once you have this breakdown of fees and see what they have added on top of the original debt, then you can start fighting back.

 

Report back here once you have those figures....send all your letters by Recorded delivery to Philips and copy all your letters to the CSA also.

 

Let them all know you are not going to be made a fool of over this, you have clearly shown you have every intention of paying this debt, by your historical actions, so I don't think you have anything to fear by doing this.

 

You can use the arguments I did if they ask why you are taking this stance now, and that is new information has only recently come to light that makes you think the regime of fees and charges that Philips are applying to your account are excessive and unreasonable.

 

Chris

[nightsurf]

just sent for a dpa to the child support agency and philips waiting to see what they have on me,iam convinced the csa have got thier facts wrong about me,does any one know if the csa has got its facts wrong,would i be able to reclaim any monies i have paid in child support i know the csa is a complex system and a law unto themselves,but ill to see whats in the dpa when it arrives.

[chrismc]

just sent for a Data Protection Act to the child support agency and philips waiting to see what they have on me,iam convinced the csa have got thier facts wrong about me,does any one know if the csa has got its facts wrong,would i be able to reclaim any monies i have paid in child support i know the csa is a complex system and a law unto themselves,but ill to see whats in the Data Protection Act when it arrives.

 

Just wait and see what comes back first, no good jumping to conclusions. Once you see what they have on you, there may be other things you are not currently aware of that will help your case.

[fidji]

I have received replies to my letters to the council and to Philips asking them to explain their fees.

 

The reply from Philips reads:

 

The law states that for each liability order/warrant that is issued against you regulations state that we can charge reasonable "costs and fees".

These fees are agreed between ourselves and our client and these are added to each liability order/warrant that is issued against you.

 

Therefore all fes remain payable by yourself.

 

We look forward to receiving your response on this matter, please note we cannot hold further action in the meantime.

 

The reply from the council was a little longer! They actually managed to enclose a schedule of charges and a statement of the charges added to the account.

 

The charges on my accounts are as follows:

 

1st account Original amount outstanding £623.70

 

19/7/04 first visit £22.50

19/7/04 second visit £16.50

30/7/04 walking possession fee £11.00

30/7/04 levy fee £42.00

11/5/05 van call £90.00

4/10/05 van call £90.00

 

Total £272.00

 

2nd account Original amount outstanding £290.97

 

24/5/04 first visit £22.50

24/5/04 second visit £16.50

30/7/04 walking possesion fee £11.00

30/7/04 levy fee £31.00

30/7/04 van fee £80.00

19/4/05 van fee £90.00

 

Total £251.00

 

3rd account Original amount outstanding £495.98

 

24/5/04 first visit £22.50

24/5/04 second visit £16.50

30/7/04 walking possession fee £11.00

30/7/04 levy fee £39.00

 

Total £89.00

 

Can anybody give me an idea of where I go from here? It is obvious that I've been over charged. Honestly, 4 visits in one day!

 

The other thing is that I have never seen these walking possessions never mind signed them, so how can they charge me on these and three walking possession on one day!

 

No mention of the £2.00 they charge each time I paid by standing order.

 

You'ld think I hadn't been paying them or something.

 

Thanks

[chrismc]

Fidji

 

This is similar to mine, my argument all along was they CAN charge what is ''Fair and Reasonable'' BUT, how can you class 2 x levy fees on same day, 2 or 3 times 1st or 2nd Visit fees, 2 or 3 or 4 WP fees on same day on the same collection as Fair or Reasonable?

 

Their response is exactly the same as I got back from Philips also and the Council, I spoke to the National Debt Helpline about this some time ago and they backed up what I thought, they cannot charge per liability order if they are collecting that on the same visit. That cannot be classed as Fair and Reasonable can it?

 

Also they charged me 6 x van fees 3 or 4 x Walking Possession fees when I only ever signed for one, so again how can they charge, 2 or 3 or 4 when you have only ever signed for one? they cannot.

 

Did you send them a Data Protection Act/S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) if not get one sent off by RD now!! and copy the letter to the Council, if you did, why have they not provided a copy of all the WP's???? When you get the paperwork back, work out what the original Tax debt was and what you have paid to date, that will give you a balance in fees they have applied, then use the Schedule of Charges (see my earlier posts) and work out what they are legitimately allowed to charge, the excess I would start to claim back, that is what I am doing now. Initially they gave me back £160 in Van fees they had charged too much, so don't believe the fact they deny they have povercharged as being true! But I still don't agree with them that the other £600 - £700 is legitimate, so I am going after it.

 

Chris

[fidji]

Hi Chris

 

Hope you are getting on well with your claim.

 

I haven't sent an SAR as I had a statement of my accounts from them with their charges on. I haven't had a copy of the walking possession and levy fees on. I wouldn't expect them really as I haven't signed a single one! In fact, I have never signed anything for them at all and they have never been in my house either! I actually had to look up what walking possession and levy were before I understood what the fees were for.

 

I think a request for a copy of the walking possessions is the next step.

 

Thanks

Fidji

[chrismc]

Hi Chris

 

Hope you are getting on well with your claim.

 

I haven't sent an S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) as I had a statement of my accounts from them with their charges on. I haven't had a copy of the walking possession and levy fees on. I wouldn't expect them really as I haven't signed a single one! In fact, I have never signed anything for them at all and they have never been in my house either! I actually had to look up what walking possession and levy were before I understood what the fees were for.

 

I think a request for a copy of the walking possessions is the next step.

 

Thanks

Fidji

Fidji

 

That is why it is best to send a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) to them, if they do not send a copy of a Levy or WP to you then how can they say you have signed one, therefore how can they charge you.

 

I know you have a statement of your account from them, but is this a complete breakdown, if you are going to pursue this further you do need to get as much/all information they hold on you.

 

Remember the more information you get from them the more errors you will find and possible ways you have of fighting back.

 

If it was me I would still go for a Data Protection Act/SAR and see what else they have personally. If you just write asking for a copy of the WP they could fob you off with mumbo jumbo, but under the DPA they have to provide this.

 

Chris

[doddsy2978]

Hi There

 

I was just wondering what course of action I may have. I have received a breakdown of the charges applied to my case and they have charged me for a visit that did not take place1 £100 + VAT for nowt thieving gits. I wannit back!

 

Has anyone any advice?

 

Thanks

 

Ian

[chrismc]

Hi There

 

I was just wondering what course of action I may have. I have received a breakdown of the charges applied to my case and they have charged me for a visit that did not take place1 £100 + VAT for nowt thieving gits. I wannit back!

 

Has anyone any advice?

 

Thanks

 

Ian

 

Ian

 

How do you know the visit never took place? and have they charged £100 just for the so called visit or for something else aswell?

 

Read all this thread, it will give you more or less a step by step guide of what to do, but bear in mind this is a very long winded process, do not expect them to just pay up and you may and probably will have to threaten court action and be prepared to carry it through.

 

Good luck

Chris

[doddsy2978]

Hi Chris

 

Ian

 

How do you know the visit never took place? and have they charged £100 just for the so called visit or for something else aswell?

 

Read all this thread, it will give you more or less a step by step guide of what to do, but bear in mind this is a very long winded process, do not expect them to just pay up and you may and probably will have to threaten court action and be prepared to carry it through.

 

Good luck

Chris

 

Well, basically, they ( this is Philips, BTW! ) have stated that the visit took place on a day (the 6th Sept) when the missus and I were in putting into place the last little bits for our wedding (9th). Nobody came to the door and no forms! We knew nothing of this till about three days later.

 

Then all I had was a scribbled phone number on a scrap of plain paper. No forms, nothing. I am in the process of asking for the money back on the grounds that somebody is lying.

 

Ian

[chrismc]

Hi Chris

 

 

 

Well, basically, they ( this is Philips, BTW! ) have stated that the visit took place on a day (the 6th Sept) when the missus and I were in putting into place the last little bits for our wedding (9th). Nobody came to the door and no forms! We knew nothing of this till about three days later.

 

Then all I had was a scribbled phone number on a scrap of plain paper. No forms, nothing. I am in the process of asking for the money back on the grounds that somebody is lying.

 

Ian

 

Ian

 

I would ask them for proof of a call on that date and a copy of all paperwork they say they issued or left relating to that call. Also under the DPA you could request all case notes on file for your account(s) they should prove one way or another if they called or not.

 

If they cannot prove they visited, not heresay, actual proof, I would ask them for a full refund for the visit fee, also ask them for a full breakdown of their costs of that so called visit. I doubt they will be able or even willing to do any of that, but under the DPA they have too and may offer something if they know you are serius about pursuing this further, I think you will have to fight all the way, but who knows?

 

Chris

[doddsy2978]

Yeah!

 

I have drafted a letter complaining, along with a Data Protection request which I will post tomorrow. I will add a request for proof.

 

Cheers

 

Ian

[chrismc]

Yeah!

 

I have drafted a letter complaining, along with a Data Protection request which I will post tomorrow. I will add a request for proof.

 

Cheers

 

Ian

 

Ian

 

Make sure you send it Recorded Delivery

 

Chris

[chrismc]

UPDATE

 

After a lot of consideration and research I decided to go the court route. I submitted a claim through the MCOL site early September and Philips were served with a summons.

 

They submitted a defence (pretty pathetic) around 12th September and I sent back my Allocation Questionaire early October.

 

I called the courts a couple of weeks ago and was told there is a massive backlog of cases due to bank charge claims etc and I had to wait for the Judges directions, he will decide what track to use.

 

So this is dragging on still, no idea how long it will take to get to court, but that is my intention.

 

Just thought I would give everyone a little update as I have had a lot of people asking me what is happening, cannot say anymore than I have at the moment for obvious reasons.

 

Chris

[nightsurf]

hi again chris thanks again to your support and advice reference my problem with the child support agancy and philips,just a qucik update,i requested all the information the child support agency had on me under the data protection act and found many errors,in their assessment,however the child support agency took me to court last week for arrears of child support,and i pointed out these errors to the magistrate,she then dissmissed the liability order the child support agency were requesting and ordered them to look in to my case file,and to return to court in feb 07,the child support agency have contacted me recently and gave me some bull excuse that the assessment made was an interim maintenance assessment due to the fact i didnt give them my partners earnings details,and this concludes thier investigations for the court in febuary,when we next attend,and that they will pursue the arrears through the courts and philips,however checking through the information i have through the data protection act,i do have a copy of my partners details which were given to them back in 2002,do i inform the child support agency that i do have these details which are already on file for them to check,or do i leave it till we next appear in court and make them look complete prats,is there any obligation to me to inform them of this and remind them of the date on which it was given ,or do i leave it till we appear in court next and make them look complete prats again.thanks chris.