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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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Dusary v Bank of Scotland


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Hi Grant,

 

Macboy has just pm'd me about it too!

 

I'll go have a gander!

Dummie's Guide to CAG: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/107001-how-do-i-dummies.html

Me v BofS: Charges: £13,048.10 #2a/c Statements from 08/01/01 received. Charges:£5,156.39 Information Commissioner's Office informed June 12th who wrote to BoS, June 22nd for non-compliance. #1a/c: passed to BoS Senior Review Team. Discovered 2 further a/cs, and 3 Loan accounts. "Goodwill offer" of £7,424.23 06/07/07. Accepted (partial repayment). 20/07/07 Top-up payments of £2,558.10 & £1,154.00

£11,136.33 paid back thus far.

New claim issued: 9/07/2007 for 3rd account: £500+ PRESSING ON!

Don't forget - when you win - a donation to CAG would be welcome!

If anything I've said has remotely been of any assistance, then please tip my scales!

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From the BBC website:

BBC NEWS | Business | Banks agree to charges test case

 

 

Banks agree to charges test case

 

The outcome of the case could change the way banks do business

 

A number of UK lenders, including HSBC, Lloyds TSB, Royal Bank of Scotland and Nationwide, have agreed to go to court in a test case about overdraft charges.

On Friday, and with the banks' backing, the Office of Fair Trading will file an action arguing that charges are unfair.

Banks have had a long-running battle with consumers over whether fees levied for unauthorised borrowing are legal.

Tens of thousands of cases have already been settled out of court, costing the banks millions of pounds.

Market watchdog the Financial Services Authority (FSA) will allow banks to suspend dealing with any claims for repayment of overdraft charges filed against them until the test case has been decided.

However, the banks will still need to make a note of any claims lodged, and will have to honour offers to settle that were made before the test case and FSA waiver were announced.

 

Unfairness rules

Angela Knight, chief executive of the British Bankers' Association (BBA) said that legal clarity was needed to end uncertainty for banks and consumers alike.

She added that the banks had not softened their view that the charges were legal and fair, and said that the lenders could only "start looking at the issues underneath" once they had a ruling.

The Office for Fair Trading (OFT) said that the lenders had approached the UK's financial watchdogs in order to sort out the problem and agreed to the test cases in England and Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.

o.gifLENDERS IN TEST CASE

Barclays

HSBC

Royal Bank of Scotland

Clydesdale Bank

HBOS

Abbey National

Lloyds TSB

Nationwide

 

 

The OFT said that on Friday (July 27th) it would commence proceedings in England's High Court for "a declaration on the application of the law in respect of unauthorised overdraft charges".

 

At the heart of the court case will be whether or not the overdraft charges are a fair reflection of the costs incurred by banks.

Under current rules, the banks cannot make punitive charges when customers exceed their overdraft limit without prior permission or write cheques when they have insufficient funds in their accounts.

Customers have been arguing that the fees levied far exceed the costs incurred by the banks.

"The OFT considers that a quick determination of this point of principle will assist in securing a clear and orderly resolution of the fairness of these charges," it said.

 

Out of court?

To date, the banks have been reluctant to contest such cases, usually settling out-of-court.

If a bank were to do so and lose its argument that the charges were fair, it could lead to many more bank customers getting refunds, analysts said.

The BBA's Ms Knight said that the banks had been unwilling to take an individual to court as the case would be different from person to person and would not offer a definitive answer on the legal issues being questioned.

She declined to say how much the banks stood to lose should the test case go against them, but said that it could affect the way they do business in the UK. There has been speculation that lenders could end their free consumer bank accounts should the ruling go against them. "We are defenders of free banking," Ms Knight said, adding that while it was too early to say what the outcome of the court case would be "we cannot say it will have no impact".

 

Whoops!

 

I see that Zoot has posted at sticky relating to this on all the sub-forums!

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/halifax-bank-bank-scotland/107582-oft-test-case-what.html

 

and, AlanfromDerby:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/announcement.php?f=9&a=107

Dummie's Guide to CAG: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/107001-how-do-i-dummies.html

Me v BofS: Charges: £13,048.10 #2a/c Statements from 08/01/01 received. Charges:£5,156.39 Information Commissioner's Office informed June 12th who wrote to BoS, June 22nd for non-compliance. #1a/c: passed to BoS Senior Review Team. Discovered 2 further a/cs, and 3 Loan accounts. "Goodwill offer" of £7,424.23 06/07/07. Accepted (partial repayment). 20/07/07 Top-up payments of £2,558.10 & £1,154.00

£11,136.33 paid back thus far.

New claim issued: 9/07/2007 for 3rd account: £500+ PRESSING ON!

Don't forget - when you win - a donation to CAG would be welcome!

If anything I've said has remotely been of any assistance, then please tip my scales!

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Hi Dusary,

 

I am replying to a message you left on my thread some time ago. I put forward my S.A.R. and have received that lengthy reply you mentioned from the Halifax.

 

Standard reply - lots of people making requests - may take some time - we don't accept responsibility etc.etc.etc.

 

Soon be time to remind them to reply to me.

With regard to OFT test case, I will press on with my claim and hope for a good outcome.

 

Hope things are going well with you.

Linjie ;-)

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Hi Dusary,

 

I am replying to a message you left on my thread some time ago.

40 days later? (Irony!)

 

I put forward my S.A.R. and have received that lengthy reply you mentioned from the Halifax.

 

Standard reply - lots of people making requests - may take some time - we don't accept responsibility etc.etc.etc.

 

Soon be time to remind them to reply to me.

 

Mmm! Don't know that they will reply now! With the Test Case underway - suspect they may just put you and the other 1,000s "on hold".

If the OFT Case IS successful - can you imagine the backlog they will have to deal with? Further chaos I suspect!

With regard to OFT test case, I will press on with my claim and hope for a good outcome.

 

That's the spirit!

  • Haha 1

Dummie's Guide to CAG: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/107001-how-do-i-dummies.html

Me v BofS: Charges: £13,048.10 #2a/c Statements from 08/01/01 received. Charges:£5,156.39 Information Commissioner's Office informed June 12th who wrote to BoS, June 22nd for non-compliance. #1a/c: passed to BoS Senior Review Team. Discovered 2 further a/cs, and 3 Loan accounts. "Goodwill offer" of £7,424.23 06/07/07. Accepted (partial repayment). 20/07/07 Top-up payments of £2,558.10 & £1,154.00

£11,136.33 paid back thus far.

New claim issued: 9/07/2007 for 3rd account: £500+ PRESSING ON!

Don't forget - when you win - a donation to CAG would be welcome!

If anything I've said has remotely been of any assistance, then please tip my scales!

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Hello Dursary.

I have rejected an offer from Halifax. They have paid money into account and I now feel that we might just as well accept as they have paid the 6 years and we are only fighting for 6 charges pre the Statute of Limitation. As it is over 6k Can I now go back and accept ???

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Have you seen this dusary.....

 

Gives people a visual help, if they dont know how do do something...;)

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/107001-how-do-i-dummies.html

HOW TO...DUMMIES GUIDE TO CAG...Read here

STEP BY STEP GUIDE...Read here

F&Q's... Read here

EVERYTHING YOU NEED THE A~Z GUIDE...Read here

 

Go to our Cag Toolbar Download page here

 

Please don't forget this site is run on DONATIONS If this site has helped in any way, then please give a little back. ;-)

Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability. All I know has come from this site. If you are unsure, please seek professional advice. .

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Think I've kinda won! Got an offer from the FOS for one account for full amount of charges but with no interest. As the FOS letter was dated the day before the announcement from OFT I have been told the bank will have to honour the offer. Am not going to turn cartwheels until I see the money in my account, but have accepted the offer. Won't give up on no. 2 account though, no matter how long it takes!

Bank of Scotland account 1 - £2,666 WON

Bank of Scotland account 2 - £2,500 on hold

GE Capital charges -£30 won (hey, every little helps!)

Barclays Partner Finance £425 charges - £225 offer accepted.

 

Finally debt free after 4.5 years, thanks to my Debt Management Plan through Payplan. There is no better feeling :D

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i too have recieved a settlement letter, and sent it back to rbos on 27 july, i do hope we still get paid as nobody seems sure if we will or not, i also sent sandy watt an email on the same day attatching the signed settlement letter, she emailed me back to say they are unable to open attatchments due to security... mmm barclays did.

does anybody know if they are still paying out at this stage of the game or have we all been put on hold....:confused:

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Hi everyone - from my hols.

 

Missed out on all the "FUN"!

 

Update: ICO e-mailed me to say that they had given HBOSplc 14 days (from August 3rd) to come up with the info on the mssing accounts.

 

Had filed a claim on another ac**** for c £512 BEFORE the test case!

 

Stay cool, everyone!

Dummie's Guide to CAG: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/107001-how-do-i-dummies.html

Me v BofS: Charges: £13,048.10 #2a/c Statements from 08/01/01 received. Charges:£5,156.39 Information Commissioner's Office informed June 12th who wrote to BoS, June 22nd for non-compliance. #1a/c: passed to BoS Senior Review Team. Discovered 2 further a/cs, and 3 Loan accounts. "Goodwill offer" of £7,424.23 06/07/07. Accepted (partial repayment). 20/07/07 Top-up payments of £2,558.10 & £1,154.00

£11,136.33 paid back thus far.

New claim issued: 9/07/2007 for 3rd account: £500+ PRESSING ON!

Don't forget - when you win - a donation to CAG would be welcome!

If anything I've said has remotely been of any assistance, then please tip my scales!

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EEEK!

 

Typed in A C C O U N T - and got asterisks!

Dummie's Guide to CAG: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/107001-how-do-i-dummies.html

Me v BofS: Charges: £13,048.10 #2a/c Statements from 08/01/01 received. Charges:£5,156.39 Information Commissioner's Office informed June 12th who wrote to BoS, June 22nd for non-compliance. #1a/c: passed to BoS Senior Review Team. Discovered 2 further a/cs, and 3 Loan accounts. "Goodwill offer" of £7,424.23 06/07/07. Accepted (partial repayment). 20/07/07 Top-up payments of £2,558.10 & £1,154.00

£11,136.33 paid back thus far.

New claim issued: 9/07/2007 for 3rd account: £500+ PRESSING ON!

Don't forget - when you win - a donation to CAG would be welcome!

If anything I've said has remotely been of any assistance, then please tip my scales!

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EEEK!

 

Typed in A C C O U N T - and got asterisks!

 

 

 

continue to have wonderful holidays.:rolleyes::cool:

missing your wit on the boards, in these uncertain times.:???: :???: :-D

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]if my response has been of help to you, please click on my scales. thank you:)

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Are you sure you typed account? :lol:

 

Enjoy your holidays, Dusary!

 

Mac ;):D

  • 04/04/07 - £104 exit fee refund - Portman BS
  • Halifax Current a/c 20yr (closed) - in progress - all 20 years statements recovered!
  • Halifax Platinum Card 15 yr - Court Action Commenced - all 15 years statements recovered!
  • A&L Current a/c - You're next..

Write to your MP and

COMPLAIN about the ANTI-CONSUMER way in which the OFT Test Case is being handled!

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So what exactly are you saying, Kenny? ;):razz:

  • 04/04/07 - £104 exit fee refund - Portman BS
  • Halifax Current a/c 20yr (closed) - in progress - all 20 years statements recovered!
  • Halifax Platinum Card 15 yr - Court Action Commenced - all 15 years statements recovered!
  • A&L Current a/c - You're next..

Write to your MP and

COMPLAIN about the ANTI-CONSUMER way in which the OFT Test Case is being handled!

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hope your havin a good rest Dursary.

And lets keep our fingers crossed everthing comes right for you soon

 

Good Luck

 

Regards :)

30-12-2006--Requested statements from Local Halifax.

02-02-2007--Statements Recieved.

18-04-2007--Prelim sent.

20-04-2007--Reply , Thanks , give us 8wks letter.

02-0502007--Sent L.B.A. & Schedule of Charges

11-05-2007--Recieved reply ,still investigating.

17-05-2007--Sent Amended L.B.A. for Contractual Interest this time.

14-06-2007--Received standard Bog Off letter.

13-06-2007--Took N1 to Local Courts.

26-06-2007--Copy of N1 from Court, issued 21-06-2007. to Halifax, Deemed Served 25-06-2007

Have till 09-07-2007 to file Defence.

05-07-2007--Note that Acknowledgment of Service been Filed on 29-06-2007.

Have 28 days from date of Service to File Defence.

07-07-2007--Offer from Halifax.

09-07-2007--Rejection letter sent to Halifax. Next day delivery.

10-07-2007--Money put in Account:mad:

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Whoah! This has been a REALLY helpful thread although I do feel like I've just lived through several month's worth of bank grief in the space of an hour. :confused: Might need to lie down to recover now. I also feel heartened already that I got a hold of my statements without all your hassle - your persistence is well worth reward. I will digest all this and get ready to send my prelim letter shortly. I am with HBOS in Scotland as well.

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