Mbna - Properly Executed Agreements

[Iceman54]

Just some thoughts after spending most of the evening going through this thread

 

since joining this site about a week ago I feel strangely empowered and feel I am getting control back

 

Last year MBNA made my life an absolute hell

 

fortunately as with most setbacks in life recovery is imminent and I hope the light at the end of the tunnel is not an oncoming train

 

If MBNA send you a CCA with the T&C stating £12 per default does that not mean that we could immediately reclaim all the £13 excess payments they took since the agreement was signed, without prejudicing any subsequent SAR claim (esp if the agreement is more than 6 years old)

 

on the question of legibility I came across this on another site (it is specifically referring to SAR) but could it be applied to CCA?

 

If you store any of the older records on microfiche, please be aware that the Information Commissioner deems this to be a relevant filing system under the Act. As such, any microfiche data must be sent to me in fully legible and comprehensible form.

 

 

 

would be interested in your comments

[dpick]

Just some thoughts after spending most of the evening going through this thread

 

since joining this site about a week ago I feel strangely empowered and feel I am getting control back

 

Last year MBNA made my life an absolute hell

 

fortunately as with most setbacks in life recovery is imminent and I hope the light at the end of the tunnel is not an oncoming train

 

If MBNA send you a CCA with the T&C stating £12 per default does that not mean that we could immediately reclaim all the £13 excess payments they took since the agreement was signed, without prejudicing any subsequent S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) claim (esp if the agreement is more than 6 years old)

 

MBNA's £12 T&C came into force June 2006 so if your agreement is prior to this date then MBNA have not complied with your CCA request as that requests all documents applicable at the time of inception of the agreement.

MBNA will ignore all letters apart from sending an acknowledgement they will not do anything to respond to your claim (apart from call if a complaint)

 

on the question of legibility I came across this on another site (it is specifically referring to SAR) but could it be applied to CCA?

 

If you store any of the older records on microfiche, please be aware that the Information Commissioner deems this to be a relevant filing system under the Act. As such, any microfiche data must be sent to me in fully legible and comprehensible form.

Have just had my PC go down so do not have the relavent docs to hand to quote but I do know that legible is one of the regs in CCA 1974 or copies of doc's regulations.

 

 

 

would be interested in your comments

 

 

all the best dpick:)

[FANTASY CHARGES]

Sorry all if I'm asking a blindingly obvious question here, but if a CC company have no done a proper agreement then you owe them nothing at all? or you dont owe them interest? I'm confused - I signed up for my MBNA card when I was bored at an airport - I only remember signing an application nothing else - then the card turns up.

 

pm me or reply as I'm gagging to get my head around this.

 

well i'm replying to your post because maybe an airport is off trade premises ???????

 

 

========================================

49. Prohibition of canvassing debtor-creditor agreements off trade premises.

 

=============

49.—(1) It is an offence to canvass debtor-creditor agreements off trade premises.

(2) It is also an offence to solicit the entry of an individual (as debtor) into a

debtor-creditor agreement during a visit carried out in response to a request made

on a previous occasion, where—

(a) the request was not in writing signed by or on behalf of the person

making it, and

(b) if no request for the visit had been made, the soliciting would have

constituted the canvassing of a debtor-creditor agreement off trade premises.

(3) Subsections (1) and (2) do not apply to any soliciting for an agreement

enabling the debtor to overdraw on a current account of any description kept with

the creditor, where—

(a) the Director has determined that current accounts of that description kept

with the creditor are excluded from subsections (1) and (2), and

(b) the debtor already keeps an account with the creditor (whether a current

account or not).

(4) A determination under subsection (3)(a)—

 

(a) may be made subject to such conditions as the Director thinks fit, and

(b) shall be made only where the Director is of opinion that it is not against

the interests of debtors.

(5) If soliciting is done in breach of a condition imposed under subsection (4)(a),

the determination under subsection (3)(a) does not apply to it.

[mfpa]

But see also:-

 

48. Definition of canvassing off trade premises (regulated agreements).

— (1) An individual (the “canvasser ”) canvasses a regulated agreement off trade premises if he solicits the entry (as debtor or hirer) of another individual (the “consumer ”) into the agreement by making oral representations to the consumer, or any other individual, during a visit by the canvasser to any place (not excluded by subsection (2)) where the consumer, or that other individual, as the case may be, is, being a visit— (a)

carried out for the purpose of making such oral representations to individuals who are at that place, but

 

(b)

not carried out in response to a request made on a previous occasion.

 

 

(2) A place is excluded from subsection (1) if it is a place where a business is carried on (whether on a permanent or temporary basis) by—

 

(a)

the creditor or owner, or

 

(b)

a supplier, or

 

©

the canvasser, or the person whose employee or agent the canvasser is, or

 

(d)

the consumer.

 

 

Might the Airport be considered a place where business is carried on, on a temporary basis, by the canvasser?

 

Logic would say not because if it is interpreted that way, then so could a street, a car park, maybe even my doorstep (because while he is there canvassing, that is where he is carrying on his business at that moment, on a temporary basis).

 

If the canvassing that lead to the issuing of the credit card were found to be an offence under Section 49, would that have any effect on the validity/enforceability of that credit agreement?

 

[Fred Bassett]

But see also:-

 

48. Definition of canvassing off trade premises (regulated agreements).

— (1) An individual (the “canvasser ”) canvasses a regulated agreement off trade premises if he solicits the entry (as debtor or hirer) of another individual (the “consumer ”) into the agreement by making oral representations to the consumer, or any other individual, during a visit by the canvasser to any place (not excluded by subsection (2)) where the consumer, or that other individual, as the case may be, is, being a visit— (a)

carried out for the purpose of making such oral representations to individuals who are at that place, but

 

(b)

not carried out in response to a request made on a previous occasion.

 

 

(2) A place is excluded from subsection (1) if it is a place where a business is carried on (whether on a permanent or temporary basis) by—

 

(a)

the creditor or owner, or

 

(b)

a supplier, or

 

©

the canvasser, or the person whose employee or agent the canvasser is, or

 

(d)

the consumer.

 

 

Might the Airport be considered a place where business is carried on, on a temporary basis, by the canvasser?

 

Logic would say not because if it is interpreted that way, then so could a street, a car park, maybe even my doorstep (because while he is there canvassing, that is where he is carrying on his business at that moment, on a temporary basis).

 

If the canvassing that lead to the issuing of the credit card were found to be an offence under Section 49, would that have any effect on the validity/enforceability of that credit agreement?

 

 

Given that nobody who posts on this forum has ever had an enforceable credit card agreement from MBNA it probably doesn't matter anyway!

 

Regards

 

Fred

[mfpa]

Given that nobody who posts on this forum has ever had an enforceable credit card agreement from MBNA it probably doesn't matter anyway!

 

Really? I have two that look enforceable. Posted here. Labelled as "application form A" and "application form B".

 

One of them came from signing a form with a canvasser at an airport that was supposed to get me sent an England football shirt (that never came) and a "credit card application pack".

Edited May 9, 2008 by mfpa

[Hopeful1]

Hi Corn

 

Just wondered if all is good with you? How is this case moving along?

[star_scream]

Is it possible to reclaim all interest on an unenforceable agreement? One company out there is claiming tthey can get back all interest PLUS all payments ever made.

If this is possible, anyone know how to go about it? I have 3 cards that are unenforceable but have been battling with them for 10 months. There must be an easier way??

[Fred Bassett]

Is it possible to reclaim all interest on an unenforceable agreement? One company out there is claiming tthey can get back all interest PLUS all payments ever made.

If this is possible, anyone know how to go about it? I have 3 cards that are unenforceable but have been battling with them for 10 months. There must be an easier way??

 

Well if it were possible then presumably you could claim interest on the interest. I'll be interested (excuse the unintended pun) to see what the answer is to this one as I'm in a similar position.

 

Regards.

 

Fred

[Hopeful1]

An unenforceable agreement does not mean a debt does not exist. It simply means a company cannot chase you or take further action.

 

Whether or not it's possible to reclaim interest i don't know, but i would think it would say you can't reclaim payments you've made.

[clivey888]

Hi people,

Im quite new to this and in a right state, MBNA made a money claim against me 4 months back which i then requested a true cert copy which they didn't respond to the case was then stayed, I have today now received a letter from eversheds stating that they have supplied the agreement i signed, default notice served, statements of account and notice of assignment, They have also kindly stated that they have applied to the court to have the stay lifted and given me seven days to respond.

 

The agreement supplied is blacked out top and bottom with just the slip on bottom of agreement where i signed "please sign this form and return to us" part.....

 

It also states crdit agreement reg by cons cred act 1974, There are no terms and conditions on it just the data protection part and the following:

 

please issue a virgin credit card to me. i confirm that the information given is true and complete, i have recieved a copy of and agree to be bound by the virgin credit card terms and conditions and i understand that i am responsible for paying any balances due on my credit card account.

 

Then there is a right to cancel part then states this is a credit agreement reg b cons cred act 74 sign only if you want to be legally bound by its terms, my signature and date,,,,,,,,,Also there is a stamp on it with a signature from mbna and date..

 

Please advise what i could do or am i buggered and will have to bite the bullet, I am in dire straits at present and fighting a losing battle with regards to debt due to being a victim of a con man.

 

Your help will be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks in advance.

[citizenB]

Hi people,

Im quite new to this and in a right state, MBNA made a money claim against me 4 months back which i then requested a true cert copy which they didn't respond to the case was then stayed, I have today now received a letter from eversheds stating that they have supplied the agreement i signed, default notice served, statements of account and notice of assignment, They have also kindly stated that they have applied to the court to have the stay lifted and given me seven days to respond.

 

The agreement supplied is blacked out top and bottom with just the slip on bottom of agreement where i signed "please sign this form and return to us" part.....

 

It also states crdit agreement reg by cons cred act 1974, There are no terms and conditions on it just the data protection part and the following:

 

please issue a virgin credit card to me. i confirm that the information given is true and complete, i have recieved a copy of and agree to be bound by the virgin credit card terms and conditions and i understand that i am responsible for paying any balances due on my credit card account.

 

Then there is a right to cancel part then states this is a credit agreement reg b cons cred act 74 sign only if you want to be legally bound by its terms, my signature and date,,,,,,,,,Also there is a stamp on it with a signature from mbna and date..

 

Please advise what i could do or am i buggered and will have to bite the bullet, I am in dire straits at present and fighting a losing battle with regards to debt due to being a victim of a con man.

 

Your help will be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Hi clivey888. It would be in your interest to start your own thread. If you click on the following link, scroll down to the bottom and hit the 'New Thread' That way people will be able to offer you advice on your own particular situation and you wont get lost in this huge one.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/

[clivey888]

thanks for the quick reply i have now started new thread in the link you provided.

[pudsters14]

Hi all

 

I am submitting an AQ (N149) to the court today and would appreciate some advice or feedback on what I'm taking.

 

If anyone has two mins could you please have a look?

 

Many thanks for all your help and sorry for hijacking the thread.

 

Link to my thread: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/77464-pudsters14-mbna-5.html

 

Thanks again

 

Pudst

x x x x

[Harrassed&Hopefull]

Great Scott Pudsters!!

 

I just read ALL of your defence - it is 'Mon Deu encredabla' (gutteral french)

 

You should get a medal for that, certainly leave's nothing for the judge to waiver on, well not that I can see. if I end up defending I will certainly use relevant bits of your defense, unless you copyrighted it.

 

How have you got on with it?

 

Best

 

H&H

[TETSUO]

this is apparently an enforceable agreement (according to site admin)

 

Feast your eyes, it may the be the last you ever see....

 

Unfortunate for me....

 

especialy as i have two from mbna - both the same

mana cca.pdf

[poppynurse]

Subbing

[underdog13]

Tetsuo, have you checked that the rate of interest stated is the amount charged? Apparently, if the agreement is enforceable in every other way, there just might be a last gasp way to side step it by checking the interest applied. Have a search around the site for threads that cover this - sorry I can't supply exact details vis interest; still learning about this one myself, but thought you might like to pursue it. Best of luck:)

[SB100]

How old is that agreement Tetsuo?

[underdog13]

Tetsuo, try reading the thread 'Prescribed Terms Rate of Interest' posted by belovedm8 on 12th September 2008

[fleeced_by_rbos]

Interesting Panorama programme on BBC1 right now (started 8.30pm) about consumers using CCAs.

 

The programme mentions that lenders are now looking to use obscure laws to gain a charge on homes. Anyone have any idea what this law is and if it has any teeth to it?

[fleeced_by_rbos]

Oh yeh, and Panorama features a slimeball who runs a DCA that has the audacity to show his face on TV. His website has pictures of predatory animals like wolves, snakes, and bears! Their advice to debtors is to "pay up or we will hound you" - all of that is clearly a breach of laws against harrasment.

 

The slimeballs name btw is Richard Kerr. Trying to find his distasteful website.

[fleeced_by_rbos]

Slimeball's website:

 

Debt Recovery and Commercial Litigation from Greenhalghs Solicitors

[fleeced_by_rbos]

Oh yeh and read that site's FAQ - unbelieveable!

[sherry1980]

Sorry in advance for the very long email but i have previous experiance in the insurance industry(previous as in I had enough and got out - yawn)

 

I wonder if this guy/girl/company actually has Professional Indemnity Insurance cause he is going to need it if he is giving his clients wrong or bad advice!! We in effect become his client when he takes on the debt so if they pursue you unlawfully or give you and advice about the debt that is in any way shape or form incorrect and could cost you money then you have a valid claim against him and effectively his insurance. (he will have a hefty excess so it will more than likely be the company it effects)

 

Please if anyone gets to speak to this company confirm you are recording the call and its his right to terminate if he/she wishes but that you will be using it as evidence – then record away.

 

Debt recovery agencies find it very difficult and extremely expensive to obtain professional indemnity insurance when people have made allegations about them. It would cripple them if they couldn’t get insurance as large banks make this an absolute minimum for them to have this you see.

 

My opinion is that if they are not playing by the rules then they should be punished accordingly and if the courts cant/wont take action against them then we should make sure they are hit hard with lots of complaints – again if they are dealing with finance they should be on the FSA register and you can cc in the FOS when complaining about them.

 

Dont get me started with Directors and Officers insurance cause if i was his/her debtor I would be taking the directors of the business to court if they acted unlawfully and go after their assets for defamation of character or something!! I will think of it.

 

I wonder if they do read these threads I hope they do and are brushing down their policies to make sure they are active and will respond....

 

Rant over but please keep this in mind if these or any others act unlawfully – they have a duty too.

 

We are only exercising our right to be free from rouge lenders.

 

I no longer carry pi insurance myself so please note this is not professional in the actual definition of the word advice - please seek a solicitor if you want that.