A New Way of Looking at Interest- 1st successful Claim - N'wide

[meagain]

It's the same one as always (in the Library), you just need to find the box where it says "8%" and replace it with whatever the rate is for unauthorised lending on bank accounts, or cash advances on credit cards. You might also want to change the headings to not read "AND 8% INTEREST CLAIMED" too (just as I almost forgot to do when contacting my bank ;-))

 

Just to clarify a point, though. My understanding is that, should you need to go to court and complete the N1, statutory interest is not to be included in the amount of the claim, whereas contractual interest is. Do I understnad correctly? Am I also right in assuming that MCOL doesn't allow you to fix an alternative rate of interest?

[barracad]

You would need to use an N1 as there is not enough space on Moneyclaim to add the extra wording to say you want to claim the contractual rate of interest.

[alanfromderby]

 

Just to clarify a point, though. My understanding is that, should you need to go to court and complete the N1, statutory interest is not to be included in the amount of the claim, whereas contractual interest is. Do I understnad correctly? Am I also right in assuming that MCOL doesn't allow you to fix an alternative rate of interest?

 

 

No, you need to include the interest in the amount claimed box - even if just claiming section 69. Obviously if you are claiming contractual, with the fall back of s.69, then just include the larger amount.

 

However, contractual interest does count when calculating which track, where as section 69 interest does not count.

[fivelaws]

No, you need to include the interest in the amount claimed box - even if just claiming section 69.

 

I'm hoping that's not true... I filled my N1 yesterday and did not include the s.69 interest in the "Amount Claimed" or "Total" boxes. I did this on the grounds that the particulars of claim and the schedule of charges referenced the s.69 interest....

 

Have I dropped a spanner?

[barracad]

It should have been included. You will need to contact the court and see if you can amend the claim - if you do this quick enough they might let you withdraw it and resubmit it without forefeiting the fee you have paid.

 

Alternatively, you can pay £35 to amend the claim, or just carry on with your claim without the interest element.

[fivelaws]

Alternatively, you can pay £35 to amend the claim,

 

I was fretting badly that I would have to withdraw the claim and pay another £120 to re-file it. Will phone them first thing AM tomorrow and see if the front sheet can be replaced or failing which, stump up the £35 to have it amended.

 

Cheers for the info! You're a star.

[c_allen]

Hi 'im hoping for a bit of help, I've decided to go for the contractual rate at 29.8% although i'm confident that it's fair to use the banks own rates against it i will be entering the 3 rates ( 8%,19.9%,29.8%) on my claim form if it comes to that, I'm just usure what to put in my prelim letter so if anyone couild have a look and see if it's ok ( the bit in the *** ***)or i should add something i'd be grateful.

 

thanx

 

 

 

My request

I am writing to ask you to refund to me the charges which you have levied from my account over the last 5 years.

I now understand that the regime of fees which you have been applying to my account in relation to direct debit refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and so forth are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent consumer regulations. If you say that they are not, then will you please demonstrate this by letting me have a full breakdown of the costs to which you have been put by as a result of my breaches, in order to reassure me that your penalties really do reflect your costs.

Additionally, it has now been confirmed that your particularly high level of penalties are considered to be unfair per se by the OFT who reported on the 5th April 2006 and are therefore presumed to be unlawful in the absence of specific proof to the contrary.

 

Your responsibilities

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

 

I am frankly shocked that you have operated my account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary.

I consider that your repeated representations that your charges are fair and reasonable are deceptive and that they have deceived me into agreeing to pay them.

Your concealment of the true nature of your charges has prevented me from asserting my right until now.

 

What I require

***I calculate that you have taken £3,516.00 plus £2,337.77 which I have calculated is the interest at your rate( 29.8%) for unauthorised borrowing for the sum which you have taken from me. Total £5848.77 . ***

I enclose a schedule of the charges which I am claiming with this letter

 

My targets to resolve this matter

I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and I am writing this letter to you on the assumption that you will prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets.

 

I will give you 14 days to reply to me accepting, unconditionally, my request in principle and letting me know a date by which I will receive payment.

 

If you do not respond, or you do not respond positively, within this time period, I shall send you a letter before action giving you a further 14 days in which to reflect. I believe that these targets are more than sufficient for a large company such as yours with dedicated staff and departments.

 

After that, there will be no further communication from me and I shall issue a claim at the expiry of the second deadline

should i put something along the lines of "there is an implied term in the bank contract based on the principle of "mutuality" or "reciprocity"

 

 

cheers all thoughts welcome

[bram stoker]

C.Allen,

 

Can you please post this in your own thread.

 

Thanks,

Vamp.

[c_allen]

sorry vamp, i have yesterday but want to get moving and don't seem to be getting answer so thought i'd be bit cheeky sorry !

[bram stoker]

Well, your letter looks fine. Send it. Please send me a link to your thread and I'll keep track, as the wording may need to be altered for future letters and claim form.

 

Hope I can help. If not, I'll find someone who can.

Vamp.

[c_allen]

thanx vamp will do and heres my thread me v helifax

just one note boyfreind wants me to keep claim under £5000 so I'm in the middle of working out the interest at 16.9% to see if that gets me under £5000 if not might as well go with 20.8% will keep you posted in my own thread thanx again;)

[c_allen]

sorry i mean 29.9%

[jellybabe]

Hi, quick question regarding contractual interest.

I sent my prelim off with just the normal interest calculation (of course,not including the 8%).

Now,after reading this thread i am very interested in claiming the contractual rate.Can i still change the interest amount to the higher rate in my lba?Or does that only apply to the 8% when you file the claim?

thanks

[alanfromderby]

You can change your claim at anytime up to when you file your court claim.

 

The only thing is that, if you have given them a figure for settlement along with a 14 day time limit, you are duty bound to honour that offer. After the 14-days have elapsed, they have had their chance to settle, and you then have no problem with changing the amount you are claiming.

[jellybabe]

Thanks,that cleared it up.

I will wait and see if they answer to my prelim letter.And if they don't, i will amend the amount of interest i am claiming to the higher rate to be send in my lba.

Thanks again,

jellybabe

[Glenn UK]

A point was made about the mutuality aspect not applying because we, the individual, are not the same as a bank and CC company, therefore we are not exposed to the sames costs as a bank and therfore cannot claim the contractual rate.

 

In the post it also alluded to the fact that we are pursuing a contract breach. Is this correct?

 

The reason i ask is that contractualy the bank can take amounts from your account it says so in the T&C i believe, if they had taken a few pennys to cover the costs we wouldnt have a claim i suspect.

 

So my logic suggest that actually its not a breach of contract its a recovery of money taken unlawfully which is not covered by the contract T&C.

 

This also impacts i feel on the application of the limitation act too, since it follows more logically why Sec 32 applies (i think thats the right section).

 

Am i being illogical in thinking like this?

 

Glenn

[meagain]

A point was made about the mutuality aspect not applying because we, the individual, are not the same as a bank and CC company, therefore we are not exposed to the sames costs as a bank and therfore cannot claim the contractual rate.

 

Contracts must be balanced. In the context of contracts, that point is meaningless. The balance of a contract is not affected by external forces, since the law regards contracts as agreements between equals.

 

So my logic suggest that actually its not a breach of contract its a recovery of money taken unlawfully which is not covered by the contract T&C.

 

The argument for contractual rates is that the bank has taken this money without authorisation, and is now paying it back; this process being equivalent to the unauthorised lending process for which the bank charges its higher rates. Thus, by the legal principle of good faith, that the bank is merely borrowing the money, and we are now calling in the debt (this is what is known as a legal fiction).

[Glenn UK]

meagain

 

I understand what you are saying about the contractual rate, i dont know much about contract law, as it goes I have no problems accepting the argument for charging a contractual rate, I am quite interested to understand whether unlawful charges are a breach of contract in the context of the limitations act though?

 

GLenn

[meagain]

It's contractual because contracts work both ways. If the bank is taking more money from you than it should, then you are entitled to treat it in the same way that the bank does when you take more money from it than you should - i.e. as unauthorised lending.

[bp]

Well i'll be watching this with interest as i'm just about to start my claim. It would be nice if we could go for the higer rate of unauthorised overdraft as Abbey currently charges 28.7%. Wouldn't that someting!

[golfscape]

Hi everyone

 

Several times in this thread it has been suggested that provided the claim is under £5k there should be no problem going for the contractual rate. Well my claim including contractual interest at 18.2% goes £6200. I was proposing to fast track it rather than split the claim but following these comments im having second thoughts.

 

Whats the current view on this issue?

 

Cheers Martin

[bfb]

I have successfully claimed 29.4% + 8% statutory interest the fees attracteed interest at the 29.4% rate and I could have invested the money taken at the 8%

[Glenn UK]

I have successfully claimed 29.4% + 8% statutory interest the fees attracteed interest at the 29.4% rate and I could have invested the money taken at the 8%

 

Out of interest what was your claim value (charges only) and was your claim settled before court?

 

Thanks

 

Glenn

[bram stoker]

I have successfully claimed 29.4% + 8% statutory interest the fees attracteed interest at the 29.4% rate and I could have invested the money taken at the 8%

BFB. You were very lucky. Someone obviously had an oversight on your claim.

 

For everyone else here, the legal aspects of the contractual interest issues are as follows:

 

You cannot claim the statutory interest of 8% if you are claiming the contractual rate of interest. It is either one or the other.

 

This is to the best of my knowledge, and please, prove me wrong if you know otherwise.

 

Good luck to all,

Vamp.

[Michael Browne]

You cannot claim the statutory interest of 8% if you are claiming the contractual rate of interest. It is either one or the other.

 

I think what BFB was saying that he claimed 29.4% interest on the charges and then s69 8% on his total claim of charges + 29.4%.

 

Whereas I think you are saying he can't replace the s69 8% with a contractual rate and then add 8% on top. Is this right or am I totally wrong?