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      Since you were stopped at the time there is no requirement for the police give you anything there and then or to send you anything before they have decided how to deal with the offence.  They have three choices: Offer you a course Offer you a fixed penalty (£100 and three points) Prosecute you in court  The only option that has a formal time limit is (3). They must begin court proceedings within six months of the date of the alleged offence. Options (1) and (2) have no time limit but since the only alternative the police have if you decline those offers is (3) they will not usually offer a course beyond three months from the date of the offence and will not usually offer a fixed penalty beyond four months from that date. This is so as to allow time for the driver to accept and comply with their offer and to give them the time to go to option (3) if he declines or ignores it.  Unless there is a good reason to do otherwise, the action they take will usually be in accordance with the National Police Chiefs' Council's guidance on speeding enforcement. In a 40mph limit this is as follows Up to 45mph - no action. Between 46mph and 53mph - offer a course Between 54mph and 65mph - offer a fixed penalty Over 65mph - prosecution in court So you can see that 54mph should see you offered a fixed penalty. Three weeks is not overly long for a fixed penalty offer to arrive. As well as that, there has been Easter in that period which will have slowed things down a bit. However, I would suggest that if it gets to about two months from the offence date and you have still heard nohing, I would contact the ticket office for the area where you were stopped to see if anything has been sent to you. Of course this raises the danger that you might be "stirring the hornets' nest". But in all honesty, if the police have decided to take no action, you jogging their memory should not really influence them. The bigger danger, IMHO, is that your fixed penalty offer may have been sent but lost and if you do not respond it will lapse. This will see the police revert to option (3) above. Whilst there is a mechanism in these circumstances  to persuade the court to sentence you at the fixed penalty level (rather than in accordance with the normal guidelines which will see a harsher penalty), it relies on them believing you when you say you did not received an offer. In any case it is aggravation you could well do without so for the sake of a phone call, I'd enquire if it was me.  I think I've answered all your questions but if I can help further just let me know. Just a tip - if you are offered a fixed penalty be sure to submit your driving licence details as instructed. I've seen lots of instances where a driver has not done this. There will be no reminder and no second chance; your £100 will be refunded and the police will prosecute you through the courts.

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Parcel delivery insurance is prohibited under section 57 – Consumer Rights Act – Read about It Here and in The Times.

FPN for not wearing a seatbelt

oddjob

By oddjob
in Private Land Parking Enforcement

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oddjob

oddjob

Posted
Posted

Please comment on all the questions.

 

I got a FPN for not wearing a seatbelt,which i wasn't,so i told the police they were filming motorists illegaly as the camera was on top of an unmarked white transit van 500 yards in front of the police cars,these cop cars were also hidden behind parked public cars and vans when they pulled me over.I know u should be able to see a police camera van 300 yards away and it should be marked,is this right?

 

The police were also filming on a road without street lights in daylight,it is illegal if they film u in the night without st lighting but is it illegal if they film u in daylight without st lights?

 

The camera sign was square with a white background and a black border...is this illigal?...because i saw in the paper that they had to have a red border round the edge of the sign,the sign was also hidden behind a tree which u couldn't see untill u came upon it...i've been told that u have to be able to See a camera sign from 300 meters away,is this right?

 

This is the main problem,i wrote to the police and asked for the police officers statement,when i received the statement i also was sent a photocopy of the FPN that i got that day,at the bottom of the photocopy the PC as added a comment but on my original FPN that he gave me,it doesn't say anything,is this purgery?

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patdavies

patdavies

Posted
Posted
Please comment on all the questions.

 

I got a FPN for not wearing a seatbelt,which i wasn't,so i told the police they were filming motorists illigaly as the camera was on top of an unmarked white transit van 500 yards in front of the police cars,these cop cars were also hidden behind parked public cars and vans when they pulled me over.I know u should be able to see a police camera van 300 yards away and it should be marked,is this right?

 

The only requirement for visibility is for a speed camera, when the proceeds will be 'netted off' to the camera partenership. In any case, it is only a guideline and is neither illegal, nor does it negate the offence if it is not clearly visible

 

The police were also filming on a road without street lights in daylight,it is illigal if they film u in the night without st lighting but is it illigal if they film u in daylight without st lights?

 

In neither case is it illegal (or even improper) to film without street lights. Even for a speed camera

 

The camera sign was square with a white background and a black border...is this illigal?...because i saw in the paper that they had to have a red border round the edge of the sign,the sign was also hidden behind a tree which u couldn't see untill u came upon it...i've been told that u have to be able to See a camera sign from 300 meters away,is this right?

 

No and no. A red border would make the sign non-prescribed, but it isn't prescriptive anyway. The 300M thing is total nonsense

 

This is the main problem,i wrote to the police and asked for the police officers statement,when i received the statement i also was sent a photocopy of the FPN that i got that day,at the bottom of the photocopy the PC as added a comment but on my original FPN that he gave me,it doesn't say anything,is this purgery?

 

No, perjury can only be committed under oath in Court. Unless the comment on the FPN is intended to mislead, it would be unlikely to be a case of attempting to pervert the course of justice anyway.

 

In all of this the Police have done nothing wrong, so your telling them that they were operating illegally probably got right up their noses. So, unsurprisingly, you've got a £30 FPN instead of a ticking off. You admit that you weren't wearing the belt anyway - just pay the ticket.

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oddjob

oddjob

Posted
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Posted

This isn't a matter of,making an excuse to not pay.

The seatbelt offence is a tax and u should be able to wear it when u want.

PKea,what r u doing on this forum because nearly every1 on this site is in the same boat,trying to get off without paying a ticket for illegal reasons when they have commited an offence.

 

The real problem here is the PC as added a comment on the FPN when it isn't on my original FPN ticket,thats a lie because every PC is sworn to a section 9 statement for truth without going to court,do understand Patdavies?

 

Take a look at this link Patdavies which is about street lights then tell me if im wrong?

 

Street light loophole could wipe out thousands of speed camera fines

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Bigmac versus

Bigmac versus

Posted
Posted

The seatbelt offence is a tax and u should be able to ware it when u want.

 

This is wrong what if a rear passenger dosent have one and kills the front passenger who is wearing one when they crash, it is there for your safety and for the safety of others

 

PKea,what r u doing on this forum because nearly every1 on this site is in the same boat,trying to get off without paying a ticket for illegal reasons when they have commited an offence.

 

Hope that excudes me then as i am here to claim back what is unlawfull charges and to offer advise if i know the answer which is what Pat davies has done for you even though you may not like the answers it should be appreciated that someone has taken time to inform you. This site is not for avoidance of your responsibilities but to help you find answers to the questions you have, which is mainly in regards to UNLAWFULL bank charges.

 

Have read the link you provided and see the reference to street lighting and signs and if you wish to pursue this then good luck to you.

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petej2811

petej2811

Posted
Posted
This isn't a matter of,making an excuse to not pay.

The seatbelt offence is a tax and u should be able to ware it when u want.

PKea,what r u doing on this forum because nearly every1 on this site is in the same boat,trying to get off without paying a ticket for illegal reasons when they have commited an offence.

 

The real problem here is the PC as added a comment on the FPN when it isn't on my original FPN ticket,thats a lie because every PC is sworn to a section 9 statement for truth without going to court,do understand Patdavies?

 

Take a look at this link Patdavies which is about street lights then tell me if im wrong?

 

Street light loophole could wipe out thousands of speed camera fines

 

I don't like to have to weigh in with negative sentiment.... But....

 

My god how did you survive into adulthood with such a stupid outlook?

 

Wearing a belt is and should not be optional. Too many fools die on the road as it is and while your questionable opinions suggest that you will join their ranks, I don't wish it upon you and I don't wish it upon anyone else. Belts save lives. I won't go into the argument. It's so old and so accepted that it bears little counter argument.

 

This site is NOT about having done it and figuring a way out. This site is about use of the law as it was intended. Banking chrages are unlawful and they perpetuate a money making enterprise to the detgriment of the consumer. We use our legal knowledge to level the playing field. Parking charges are mercenary and often unlawful and we use our legal prowess to 'get off' as you tactfully put it to level the playing field.

 

It is not in the spirit of the site to help an idiot who got a ticket for not wearing his belt who then seeks to use irrelevant facts with no basis in law to escape a fine that he properly deserved. It's not in the interests of justice for you to 'get off'. You did it, you clearly need to mnd your ways and a ticket seems like just the ticket for me.

 

Now on to the ticket. You have a copy of the police copy. The police copy and the motorist copy are not the same. What has to be provided to the motorist is different to that which the police require. The PC has added a comment because his copy is the evidential copy which they will rely on as the original note at court if needs be. If it has a comment on it then this is normal, accepted and in keeping with procedures and process.

 

The FPN is not a Section 9 MCA statement. Your copy certainly is not. The police copy will be the evidence. Yours is simply to serve you with notice of the penalty.

 

The issue about the cameras is completely and utterly a red herring and has nothing whatsoever to do with your ticket. It's not a way out of it at all.

 

You deserve this ticket by your own admission so without anting to, again step out of line -stop moaning and play the game.

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patdavies

patdavies

Posted
Posted
This isn't a matter of,making an excuse to not pay.

The seatbelt offence is a tax and u should be able to ware it when u want.

PKea,what r u doing on this forum because nearly every1 on this site is in the same boat,trying to get off without paying a ticket for illegal reasons when they have commited an offence.

 

The real problem here is the PC as added a comment on the FPN when it isn't on my original FPN ticket,thats a lie because every PC is sworn to a section 9 statement for truth without going to court,do understand Patdavies?

 

Take a look at this link Patdavies which is about street lights then tell me if im wrong?

 

Street light loophole could wipe out thousands of speed camera fines

 

Firstly, it would be much easier to read your posts if they were posted in English rather than text-speak.

 

The seatbelt fine that you have been issued with is not a tax - it is a fine. You are legally required to wear a seat belt; in the same way that you must tax and insure your vehicle and ensure that it is in a roadworthy condition.

 

The majority of people here are not trying to get off tickets for illegal reasons. They are actually asking for (and receiving) advice about the legalities of the tickets issued. If the ticket is not legally issued, then it is void. PKea's comment is entirely reasonable

 

An FPN is not a Section 9 statement. It may form part of a section 9 statement if you take the matter to Court. Section 9 exists so that both sides in a dispute may accept the evidence in the statement without the need for the witness making the statement to attend in person. If you object to the statement, you are entitled to do so and the PC will be called as a witness in person.

 

The link that you have posted has absolutely nothing to do with being able to use cameras where there are no street lights. The case in the link is about the 30 mph limit being unenforcable due to the lack of streetlights - however they tried to enforce it. Cameras are used to enforce limits other than 30 mph, where there is no requirement for street lights.

 

So I accept your invitation - you are wrong!

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Rob S

Rob S

Posted
Posted
This isn't a matter of,making an excuse to not pay.

The seatbelt offence is a tax and u should be able to ware it when u want.

PKea,what r u doing on this forum because nearly every1 on this site is in the same boat,trying to get off without paying a ticket for illegal reasons when they have commited an offence.

 

 

This forum was started in response to unfair bank charges. It has expanded to cover other areas of consumer interest, including parking matters. However, in your case you were caught fair and square and given a fixed penalty for failing to wear your seatbelt. The law was changed in 1983 to make it compulsory to wear one. The wearing of seat belts has been shown to save lives.

 

As for your comment about people here illegally trying to avoid their liabilities, you are totally on the wrong track on that. This site is all about winning your case against the banks/authorities/retailers etc by using legal means. You would do well to remember that before you start off on your childish rants against another member.

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PKea

PKea

Posted
Posted

My Point Oddjob is that you have at least three threads all about differnet FPNs you have recieved and it just appears to me that you want a way out of these.

You asked a question and Pat explained the reasons.

Then you ask him to explain himself.

From your initial comment you made to the Police, it seems that you will look for any excuse not to pay.

As for the seatbelt law, thats just coomon sense. I'd rather have a sore neck and still be in the seat rather than flung through a windscreen which happened a local girl recently, because she thought she didnt need one.

Any thats my two-peneth and opinion.

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oddjob

oddjob

Posted
  • Author
Posted

I will rephrase my post,Please comment on all questions except for childish idiots who call names,i used to call ppl names at school.

If u come here to get info on bank charges then tuff because my threads not about this so plz dont metion it in my thread.

You ppl dont know wat your taking about u contradict yourselves,if your PNC or FPN ticket is unlawful then it is illegal so i'll try to get away without paying even though i av committed the offence,but hold on a minute,some1 said if u committed the offence just pay the £30 and get on with your life.

Well it is the same thing with my FPN,no lighting on the st,illegal (your wrong PD read the link slowly next time with glasses and u will find that im right) parked speed camera van thats unmarked,illegal and theres a comment the photocopy of my FPN that the PC has but it isnt on my FPN ticket,illegal(PKea,my FPN is the same as the PC,your pathetic)

I never stated my FPN was a section 9,speculating again,rewrite all your posts again ppl because u all thrive on speculations.

PD,im not good at writing letters so dont try to pull me down for this,u understand wat "is" and "it" means dont u,so wats your problem.

 

You ppl know nowt your a bunsh of has beens,

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Rob S

Rob S

Posted
Posted

Well, you only have one option then. Don't pay and take the option of having the case heard in a magistrates court. I'm sure the magistrates will find it fascinating to hear you ramble on about street lights and speed cameras in a case involving not wearing a seat belt.

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patdavies

patdavies

Posted
Posted
I will rephrase my post,Please comment on all questions except for childish idiots who call names,i used to call ppl names at school.

 

Fair enough

 

You ppl dont know wat your taking about u contradict yourselves,if your PNC or FPN ticket is unlawful then it is illegal so i'll try to get away without paying even though i av committed the offence,but hold on a minute,some1 said if u committed the offence just pay the £30 and get on with your life.

Well it is the same thing with my FPN,no lighting on the st,illegal

I fail to see how the visibility of a speed camera and the absence (or otherwise) of street lighting have any bearing whatsoever on an FPN for failing to wear a seat belt

 

(your wrong PD read the link slowly next time with glasses and u will find that im right) parked speed camera van thats unmarked,illegal

 

I have read it again, slowly - and I don't need glasses. I am still right. In the case quoted, the requirement for streetlamps is to make the limit enforceable by any means. It has no bearing whatsoever on the use of speed cameras.

 

Speed cameras are only required to be highly visible if they belong to a speed camera partnership who intend to 'net off' the proceeds. There are no visibility requirements whatsoever for Police enforcement.

 

There are no requirements whatsoever for streetlamps to be present for camera enforcement to be lawful - or do you think that all motorway enforcement by camera is illegal?

 

 

and theres a comment the photocopy of my FPN that the PC has but it isnt on my FPN ticket,illegal(PKea,my FPN is the same as the PC,

This has been done to death already. An FPN is an offer to accept guilt for the offence and pay the fine without the need to attend court - with its potential for a variable fine and costs. Whatever the PC writes on his copy does not invalidate this; and certainly isn't illegal. Even if he (justifiably IMO) scrawled across his copy "This guy is a edited.....

 

your pathetic)
But I thought that you said you only called people names at school or are you (your quote) "a pathetic idiot"

 

 

You ppl know nowt your a bunsh of has beens,

Back to the name calling then.

 

 

You started this thread to ask for advice. You have been given, good sound information and advice. If you don't like it - tough. Either pay the FPN at £30 as advised, or write to the issuing authority to demand a court hearing - good luck. Or do nothing - I am sure that you will then be posting about how unfair the Baliffs are being

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dollies01

dollies01

Posted
Posted

It worries me that people with this kind of mentality are actually given a license to be in charge of a car in the first place.

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Sidewinder

Sidewinder

Posted
Posted

This has to be a wind-up surely?

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oddjob

oddjob

Posted
  • Author
Posted

I quote"speed cameras are required by law to be visible to passing traffic"which is stated in the st light link,so the law is wrong then PD.If u find a speed camera on the motorway that has now st lighting round it then u might be right on your speculation but ive never seen one without st lighting,your wrong again.

Why not comment on,ppl commit an offence of illegally parking they end up getting a ticket which they find out to be unlawful (illegal) should they get off without paying or should they pay it and get on with there lives,its the same thing with my FPN,should i get off with the seatbelt offence wen the speed camera was operating in an illegal place even though i committed the offence.

I had to write i quote "your pathetic" not pathetic idiot because PKea is pathetic just like u PD with your name calling on the FPN..well this should gives u something to speculate about.

PD im getting to know u now,u add things on that i haven't said in my post and then take away meanings that prove me right in wat i say,WHY?

You all bite quite easily wen your wrong so grow up children im sorry for waking u up,u can all go back to sleep now.

Mentallity Dollies01,wats mentallity to do with not wearing a seatbelt or av u got ya wires crossed,now1 on this forum as ever driven then without a seatbelt on av they,i believe u ppl thousands wouldn't.

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patdavies

patdavies

Posted
Posted

 

The real problem here is the PC as added a comment on the FPN when it isn't on my original FPN ticket,thats a lie because every PC is sworn to a section 9 statement for truth without going to court,do understand Patdavies?

 

 

And

 

I never stated my FPN was a section 9,speculating again,rewrite all your posts again ppl because u all thrive on speculations.

 

You were the person who raised S9 statements in the first place

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barracad

barracad

Posted
Posted

I think you've had your question answered several times over now. You committed an offence, and you admitted - accept it.

 

As for the mentality, if you really don't know what's wrong with driving without a seatbelt then it's pointless anybody trying to explain.

 

I agree with Sidewinder - this must be a wind-up.

 

If not, then just pay the FPN and next time wear a seatbelt. Alternatively, do us all a favour and catch the bus.

 

Thread closed.

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Opinions given herein are made informally by myself as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

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HA5 4HS

The Consumer Action Group

The National Consumer Service
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