NPC ANPR PCN Claimform - Taxi - Appealed - No Parking Or Waiting At Anytime - St Thomas Hospital, London, Se1 7eh.

[northmonk]

Morning folks

I've received a claim form pertaining to a private parking charge at a London hospital after having heard nothing from them for well over a year!

I thought the matter was closed since I had not heard in so long and I haven't retained their original letters trying to extort money from me.

I do have the letters on Google Drive in response to them though which I have attached here,

I also attach a copy of the court claim document

, please advise on how I respond to this,

Many thanks

 

My Letters+Claimform .pdf

[FTMDave]

I'm sure dx100uk will come on the forum this afternoon with details of how to defend.

[dx100uk]

thread title updated.

please complete this:

 

dx

[lookinforinfo]

Welcome back NorthMonk.

You look as if you are trying to catch up with my wife who has has 12 PCNs on the go at one time. 

I have never paid one of them [nor has she] and quite a few have dropped off being more than six years with no contact.

Others have cancelled and the rest have just gone silent.. 

I liked your letter having not heard "Go forth and multiply " for years.

There is another one which I have used  which can be read here. Quite funny if Parking Eye were the recipient.

Arkell v. Pressdram

NEWS.LETTERSOFNOTE.COM

---

How to respond to a frivolous legal threat

Moving on to your current PCN

why were you at a no stopping area when St Thomas' does have a drop off point?

[northmonk]

Lol thanks for that, a polite way of telling people to F off I find! Yeah I used the Arkell v Pressdram instruction to Smart parking for a Southend Airport PPC a few years back, always a goodie!

That's very interesting what you said about the old PCN 's, some as old as 6 years, wow - I'll take heart from that!

In terms of the St Thomas's hospital drop off, you'd been able to drop at the bottom of the entrance ramp for years and years no problem.

All of a sudden NCP take over the parking contract and they put up "no stopping at any times" signs and cameras and have a field day no doubt charging every poor, unsuspecting Tom, Dick & Harry who drives down the ramp to drop relatives, customers or whatever.

They must've made an absolute fortune because as I said people were in the habit of dropping there for decades, then it suddenly changed, and nobody realised for a while, I still see poor suckers stopping there now!

I was there for literally 90 seconds dropping an alcoholic guy off for a detox clinic with his carer as a minicab driver yet they want to take me to court, ruthless bastards!

I'll post up a picture of the sign that NCP put up at the time indicating no stopping.

Thanks for your comment, I always find the stuff you post very helpful

. I better post up the standard claim form questionnaire below now actually

Kind Regards

...................

Which Court have you received the claim from ? Civil National Business Centre, Northamton, NN1 2LH

Name of the Claimant :    National Parking Control, RH10 1JH       

Claimants Solicitors: (if one is stated) DCB Legal, WA7 1UG

Date of issue –  18/03/2024

Date for AOS -  05/04/2024

Date to submit Defence - 19/04/2024

What is the claim for –

1. The Defendant (D) is indebted to the Claimant (C) for a Parking Charge(s) issued to vehicle ******** at St Thomas Hospital, London, Se1 7eh.

2. The PCN(s) were issued on 14/1 1/2022

3. The defendant is pursued as the driver of the vehicle for breach of the terms on the signs (the contract). Reason:No Parking Or Waiting At Anytime

4. In the alternative the defendant is pursued as the keeper pursuant to POFA 2012, Schedule 4

AND THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS

1. £160 being the total of the PCN(s) and damages.

2. Interest at a rate of 8% per annum pursuant to s.69 of the County Courts Act 1984 from the date hereof daily rate Or

£.02 until judgment or sooner payment.

3. Costs and court fees

What is the value of the claim? £160.00

Amount Claimed £178.32

court fees £35.00

legal rep fees £50.00

Total Amount £263.32

Have you moved since the issuance of the PCN? (y/N - if Y state Date too) NO

Did you receive a letter of Claim With A reply Pack wanting I&E etc about 1mth before the claimform? Y/N + date and did you reply? NO

[FTMDave]

You obviously know the area well.  Do you know, more or less, when NPC took over?  I ask because in their own trade association's Code of Practice there is -

Changes in Operator’s Terms and Conditions

Where there is any change to any pre-existing terms and conditions that would not be immediately apparent to a person visiting the Car Park and which materially affects the Motorist the Operator should place additional (temporary) notices at the entrance making it clear that new terms and conditions/charges apply, such that regular visitors who may be familiar with the old terms do not inadvertently incur Parking Charges. Notices should be in addition to the signage ordinarily required and left in place for an appropriate period.

[northmonk]

Hi FTMDave,

I'm not sure exactly but it must've been just prior to the date of the parking charge because as a London cab driver we visit that hospital every week or so and I never had any problems previously and had always parked in the same spot, sometimes waited there for 15 mins or so. 

Also if you look at the attached Google image from street view, I've circled in yellow the area on the road where I used to stop to pickup or drop passengers and also the area where NCP has since installed the "No Waiting" sign -

I'll swing by there and post up a picture of what it now looks like when I get a chance this week.

Clearly NCP have installed the signage and camera after the street view image was captured by Google

 

Regards

St thomas's Screenshot.pdf

[lookinforinfo]

I too have used the Pressdram letter but as it was sent to one of the parking rogues solicitors it probably was not understood as I don't feel they are proper solicitors..

Had you written to the hospital when you first received the PCN there may have been chances of getting it cancelled though I am surprised that they allowed them to erect signs where many people pick up and drop off. As it is with a Court case imminent  the hospital would probably be unable to intervene.

Nothing to worry about from your point anyway. No Stopping or No Waiting cannot form a contract with motorists so you cannot breach a contract that doesn't exist. And you should include the fact that they didn't give enough advance warning of the change in parking rules prior to your PCN. 

Once we see your original PCN we will be able to see if they have sent you a compliant PCN. Most of the rogues don't and I don't suppose that NPC will be any different. 

just be careful not to get another PCN at St Thomas' when getting photos of the  NPC signage. Please don't forget to include their entrance sign too.

In the meantime could you please complete this

 Have you received a Parking Ticket - please fill this out?

[FTMDave]

Make sure you get a CPR request off.  They may cooperate and you get to see the PCN.

If they haven't replied by your defence date then you can SAR the PPC.

[dx100uk]

interesting no PAPLOC?

[FTMDave]

Well spotted dx.  That needs to go in the defence.

[northmonk]

Yeah I think they're better at sending out threatening letters to intimidate people rather than any legal accumen!

I've actually just sent a email to the hospital PALS asking if they have the power to cancel it, I really should've done that at the very beginning rather than at this stage! Let's see what they come back with anyway

On 25/03/2024 at 22:09, lookinforinfo said:

Nothing to worry about from your point anyway. No Stopping or No Waiting cannot form a contract with motorists so you cannot breach a contract that doesn't exist. And you should include the fact that they didn't give enough advance warning of the change in parking rules prior to your PCN. 

That's good to know

Sorry out of the loop a bit with these acronyms, what's a CPR?

Can I still SAR NPC at this stage?

On 26/03/2024 at 15:23, dx100uk said:

interesting no PAPLOC?

Sorry those acronyms again, what's paploc

Regards

[honeybee13]

Most of the acronyms are in the forum sticky.

CPR = Civil Procedure Rules. The one that applies to you is mentioned if you scroll down the sticky with the Qs and As that you posted higher up the thread.

HB

[dx100uk]

pop up on the bulk court website detailed on the claimform.
[if it is not working return after the w/end or the next day if week time]
.
When you select ‘Register’, you will be taken to a screen titled ‘Sign in using Government Gateway’. 
Choose ‘Create sign in details’ to register for the first time. 
You will be asked to provide your name, email address, set a password and a memorable recovery word.

You will be emailed your Government Gateway 12-digit User ID. 
You should make a note of your memorable word, or password as these are not included in the email.<<**IMPORTANT**

 then log in to the bulk court Website
.
 select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box.
.
 then using the details required from the claimform
.
defend all
leave jurisdiction unticked
 you DO NOT file a defence at this time
[BUT you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 ]
click thru to the end
confirm and exit the website

.get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?486334-CPR-31.14-Request-to-use-on-receipt-of-a-PPC-(-Private-Land-Parking-Court-Claim

type your name ONLY

no need to sign anything

.you DO NOT await the return of paperwork.

you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform.

[FTMDave]

Don't worry about the SAR for the moment, acknowledge the claim and send off the CPR request as dx says, they may reply to the CPR and send the paperwork.

[northmonk]

Ok I'll get that done today,

 

Regards

[northmonk]

Ok created an account but only getting the attached screen when I log in. Is this because its Easter weekend as you mentioned, and more options will be available after the weekend?

 

Regards

Screenshot 2024-03-31 141714.pdf

[dx100uk]

On 27/03/2024 at 12:16, dx100uk said:

pop up on the bulk court website detailed on the claimform.
[if it is not working return after the w/end or the next day if week time]
.
When you select ‘Register’, you will be taken to a screen titled ‘Sign in using Government Gateway’. 
Choose ‘Create sign in details’ to register for the first time. 
You will be asked to provide your name, email address, set a password and a memorable recovery word.

You will be emailed your Government Gateway 12-digit User ID. 
You should make a note of your memorable word, or password as these are not included in the email.<<**IMPORTANT**

 then log in to the bulk court Website
.
 select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box.
.
 then using the details required from the claimform
.
defend all
leave jurisdiction unticked
 you DO NOT file a defence at this time
[BUT you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 ]
click thru to the end
confirm and exit the website

looks like you've used the wrong website to me. thats the new moneyclaimonline one.

did you create a gateway login first?

then use the website detailed on the claimform.

if it comes back the same...leave it till tuesday afternoon to try again.

no rush, you have until the 5th and even then it can be done by email if it won't work.

 

[northmonk]

Ok dx logged into the gov website and clicked my intention to defend etc, not filed a defence as you said and drafted the CPR 31.14 ( see attached)

I'll wait on your reply/suggestions etc before posting the CPR 31.14 to PPC solicitors

Regards

 

CPR 31.14 DCB Legal.pdf

[honeybee13]

So you've acknowledged the claim? Now you need to work on a defence, there's a bland one suggested in the court form sticky that you filled in with about five general points.

HB

[northmonk]

Ok thanks HB I'll take a look.

What's the success rate of individual drivers going to a small claims hearing & defending themselves, seems slightly daunting given I've no legal experience and only been in a court room once about 35 years ago! 

 

Regards

[honeybee13]

FTMDave worked it out once and I think it was 80-85% successes for our people.

It's nothing to be apprehensive about, loads of people have done it. If it gets to court, they don't all.

HB

[northmonk]

Ok that's good to know, thanks

[FTMDave]

Yes, i did!  Around 85%.

[northmonk]

impressive, sounds like I'm in safe hands!