Family home + no will + share

[philmycoke]

people are just trying to nit pick nonsense.

you are 100% correct.

1. i need solicitor for the fraud.

2. i need solicitor for this notice i just heard about today.

i have found one solicitor i like her, lets see what she has to say.

She said upto writing first letter to my brother she will do all the work for £300.

 

Ali

[BazzaS]

Are you going to tell your new solicitor that back in 2011 you knew you had signed away your inheritance?. All you need do is take her a printout of this thread or give her the URL.

 

Otherwise, she may be working under a misapprehension and then give you poor advice as a result.

[philmycoke]

just for bazza,

EVEN at this stage i am assuming the ONLY way the solicitor would of sent me the attatched letter is if he was pretending to be me on the phone as per the first line.

THE only way the 2nd solicitor would of started the title change is if HE HAD something in hand,

signed by a witness according to a solicitor which he gave.

THEN at some point he FORGED my signature to say i dont want my inheritance.

i did not go into detail back then.

back then i knew nothing.

even now i got most papers in hand but i am not a solicitor so cant understand much.

i was asked by my uncle that if my name was on the mortgage and how much was it.

i said no clue.

he said is it not in your name, i said nope.

my brother said they wont have me.

he said they cant say that.

what happened to your share, i said i dont know.

to get it in his name means something has happened.

and he gave me a scenario..

. and on that i wrote that post in 2011.

now if something called deeds of variation is just some letter not an official form.

then the missing link is that document the solicitor is refering to which she does not have.

but that had to be signed by a witness if i was giving away my rights to the house.

who was the witness?

who signed it?

which date?

where is it?

your guess is good as mine.

if the signature on it is same as the one in the letter then its not mine.

this signature is not mine.

witness says he did not sign it.

he cant remember.

he said cant remember 5 times.

i say cant remember and did not are 2 different things.

he still said cant remember.

i am going to get a notice in first.

then i am going to get the paperwork sorted through a solicitor and go to quite a few with that ground work done to see how to proceed further.

all options are on the table.

Bazza would u give up at that point £150k to live in a box room?

well i wont either. now that 150 is more like 350.

 

Ali

[mariner51]

You say you were the Executor, poss with your brother, yet appear not to understand the duties/resps of the role. The Lender prob declined to accept you as mortgagee under FCA rules for ability to pay when Interest rates increase, or your brother has played a blinder.

[philmycoke]

i am from pakistan and 13 years junior @ 36

you think my family members think i am an adult or a baby?

i am the last one to know anything important.

my brother even when i was paying the mortgage dealt with everything.

After mothers death my uncles did everything upto the stone on the grave.

then my brother took full control of paper.

he told me to go pay.

rest is history.

lender?

why did they not talk to me?

no credit search was done if they can do it without me knowing fine.

i was working, had wages + property rented out. with maybe £200 odd outstanding on one card for 3 weeks.

brother has been committing minor crime since age 12.

stealing here and there and is a fraudster, slimy, liar, cheater, selfish from day one.

not to worry, i will be at peace once i can sort notice out.

i am getting whats mine.

[BazzaS]

Either you were (lying or mistaken) in 2011 when you said you’d signed away your rights to the inheritance, or you are (lying or mistaken) when you now say you didn’t sign anything and have/had no idea about it.

 

The two are mutually exclusive.

No amount of misdirection can obscure that.

Which is it?

[philmycoke]

i have a confession to make...

 

and i am very sorry.

 

i am santa clause.

 

lets the solictor deal with it.

 

you keep guessing.

 

Ali

[BazzaS]

Santa wouldn’t fib.

If you don’t reveal all to your solicitor you may get duff advice: you’ll then risk that when your brother then contests any notice you’ll end up out of pocket.

 

 

Additionally: why did you ask about this in 2011, and then do nothing about it?.

That (together with you saying you knew you’d signed away your rights to the inheritance) suggests you aren’t giving all the information.

 

You say you were told you “couldn’t be on the mortgage” :

Did your property that you have a mortgage on with Birmingham Midshires impact on this?

(The one you are now looking to rent out as you can’t afford the mortgage) :

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?478097-Residental-mortgage-and-NOW-need-to-LET&p=5031268#post5031268

 

What will you do if your brother says this was all done with your agreement and part of a deal by which you got the 2nd property, and that this is merely a case of “buyer’s remorse” as a result of the property crash and your perilous financial situation?

[Manxman in exile]

Ali, can you clarify something for me as I'm confused?

 

You keep saying that the only document you have is a copy of a letter dated 11 years ago that you only got hold of a couple of weeks ago. You don't remember receiving it 11 years ago and you never replied to it. And those solicitors have no record of any subsequent Deed of Variation?

 

But you also keep referring to another document (which I presume you must have seen) which purportedly has your signature on it (but you say is a forgery) and was witnessed by somebody, but that person is also saying they never witnessed it, and that their signature too is a forgery.

 

What is this second document? I presume you must have seen it or have it in your possession as how would you know it's not your signature?

 

And a question for the more knowledgeable posters here - assuming DoV exists, where is it filed? I presume it gets registered at the Probate Office with the will?

 

Having re-read the OP I see the solicitors gave you two documents - a copy of the letter and a copy of the "title change". Is it that which bears the signatures you claim are forged?

[BazzaS]

The only place a DoV HAS to be filed is with HMRC, and then only if IHT / CGT liability has increased.

HMRC are also likely to want to see it if an IHT return has been made and a new return with less IHT / CGT is being filed (they don’t like giving money back!)

 

This arises as a DoV should be signed by all beneficiaries, and is binding on the executor. So (unless it affects HMRC) HMRC don’t need to see it, and the beneficiaries remedy if there is a problem is against the executor.

 

The OP failed (himself) the beneficiary by not fulfilling his fiduciary duty (himself) as executor (unless he did agree a DoV and this is all “buyers remorse”)

 

I’ve previously answered how the OP should find the (most likely) solicitors involved in a DoV.

[Ethel Street]

And a question for the more knowledgeable posters here - assuming DoV exists, where is it filed? I presume it gets registered at the Probate Office with the will?

 

No. I did a DoV on my uncle's Will recently and looked into this. It doesn't get filed or registered anywhere and isn't a public document. The Executor should keep it - it's the evidence that would be needed if the Executor's acts were ever challenged in court. It's essentially a private arrangement between beneficiaries. although as Bazza says it might need to be produced to HMRC depending on the effect it has on IHT liability.

[Manxman in exile]

Well that put's the OP in an even more difficult predicament than I had thought. I'm presuming (don't think it's been clarified?) that OP and brother were co-executors so brother should have it (assuming it exists) if OP doesn't.

 

 

And after 11 years, what sort of remedies are available to him?

 

 

EDIT: And I'm still confused as to what document bears the two "forged" signatures.

Edited September 24, 2017 by Manxman in exile
Addition

[philmycoke]

this post has become nit picking and stupidity. with zero help just playing around with my story. so i suggest something to end this thread.

for the last time. after paying the solicitor money to begin probate work. I HAVE NOT SEEN OR TOUCHED ANYTHING.

when i first wrote the post i assumed alot based upon peoples opinions.

now i know alot more and some is still assumed.

in order for the will to be executed, documents drawn up and titles changed etc means i would of submitted signed documents. which allowed for all this to happen. the lawyer assumed all he has with my signatures i am agreeing too.

i am saying i did not sign anything.

therefore all of my signatures were faked.

documents to be real as solicitors would of made them.

witness was needed for titles change documents. + some kind of consent for all this to happened (affidavit, agreement, DoV).

i was the sole executor and beneficiary for the will. and i did no work or signatures. just paid some money.

you can go on like old ladies about how i write and what i wrote etc. the END RESULT IS i now need a solicitor.

 

Ali

[Haunter]

I think it's a fraud here Ali,

your brother has taken advantage of you,

you are younger than he is and you trusted him and had to go along with what he was doing,

this is clearly the case because you are an intelligent man and you would not give up your inheritance unless you were deceived and misled, which is what your brother appears to have done.

 

Haunter

[BazzaS]

Yet:

(From 2011)

philmycoke said:

Do i still have rights to the will and the property even i signed something saying i don’t.

PriorityOne said:

I'm inclined to think that you've signed away your rights to the Will, which is effectively what you said in your post. Whether you can go back on this decision now and on what grounds now however need to be addressed by a solicitor who specialises in property/Will issues.

Ed999 said:

You must consult a Solicitor. This problem is too complex for a self-help forum.

 

If you were making payments in repayment of the mortgage capital - not merely towards payment of the interest, but actually in repayment of the capital sum outstanding

- you might have acquired an equitable interest in the property, which would possibly become an overriding interest even if not registered at HM Land Registry, as a consequence of you being actually in occupation of the property.

You need to see a Solicitor and have him arrange to properly protect your interest, i.e. potentially a part-ownership of the property, by proper registration at the Land Registry.

The mortgage lender might have required that you sign a waiver of your rights, so that your occupation of the property could not prevent them selling it if the mortgage is not repaid.

Less than an abandonment of your rights under the Will, that might be the type of document you signed

- just a power of sale, in limited circumstances, not an abandonment of all your inheritance rights.

Such waivers are very common, and it would be surprising if the mortgage lender had not insisted on you signing one if you live there.

You can have a Solicitor find out from the lender just what it was you signed, and he will explain to you its legal effect. But the effect might not be what you seem to think it is, for the reasons I've mentioned.

 you have to ask yourself why the OP didn't take the advice from 2011, and now says he didn't sign anything and knew nothing about it, in direct contradiction to his 2011 posting.

He clearly knew SOMETHING about it in 2011, and was saying he'd signed away his rights.

If he had merely been TOLD he'd signed something, wouldn't a rational and reasonable person:

a) either say "I've been told I signed something", or "I've been told I signed something but I don't recall doing so"?, and

b) investigate it further in 2011 ...........

Of course, if the OP wanted to claim (instead of now claiming fraud):

i) lack of competence to sign, or

ii) 'undue influence'

He could then likely limit the mortgage company's rights, if they should have been 'on notice' and he was 'in actual occupation'.

So, to conclude it is fraud you'd have to explain away the OP's post from 2011 and lack of action for 6 years .......

[Guest]

Quote

The mortgage lender might have required that you sign a waiver of your rights, so that your occupation of the property could not prevent them selling it if the mortgage is not repaid.

Less than an abandonment of your rights under the Will, that might be the type of document you signed

- just a power of sale, in limited circumstances, not an abandonment of all your inheritance rights.

Such waivers are very common, and it would be surprising if the mortgage lender had not insisted on you signing one if you live there.

You can have a Solicitor find out from the lender just what it was you signed, and he will explain to you its legal effect. But the effect might not be what you seem to think it is, for the reasons I've mentioned.

and, if that was the case, solicitor advice about it at the time would have been required to be accepted.

as said, if it was re that then it should be just about occupancy and any potential claims re any contributions/improvements to the property, not re any beneficial entitlement?

[Haunter]

Without anyone thinking that I'm being aggressive, because I'm not, I don't have to explain anything.

 

Haunter

[philmycoke]

i am sorry to the all the guys apart from bazza....

i will update once the solicitor has done the ground work and figured it all out.

now the witness to the wills and other stuff all are on my side and soon as my brother takes any action against me we will sit down with him if not. i will get £3000 from each which is discussed.

4 x 3 = 12k ready for high court.

i wont submit any more posts.

Ali

[Guest]

no worries. solicitor advice, on all the facts, is essential for you.

[Manxman in exile]

I'm totally confused! In one post you say you paid £700 and in this one you say you paid no-one! Who did you pay and who didn't you pay? We're they the same solicitors or not? Please explain in simple language.

 

Ali, your story is hopelessly confused and incomprehensible. It makes no sense whatsoever. I may be being picky but you can't even spell "does" correctly - but I think that kind of detail is quite important to get you the advice you need. And I think others on here would agree.

 

I've only just joined this forum but looking at your posting history you seem to be unbelievably unlucky in asking advise (sic) for finding suitable solicitors.

how many have you found and have they been any good?

I was surprised that you found a solicitor you were happy with on a Saturday between about 6pm and 7pm?

How did you manage to do that?

 

And did you help your brother (I assume the same brother) to recover his £18k costs from the local council after challenging council tax charges for £4k?

 

Finally, I think you've mentioned that you suffer from anxiety/depression.

I understand that. But you need to understand that if you are going to get anywhere with this inheritance problem, you need to understand what has happened and be capable of explaining that fully to a third party (possibly a court of some kind).

Apologies, but I'm not sure you can do that from what you've posted on this thread.

It may make sense to you but I can make no sense of what you have posted.

 

 

If you want to pursue this further, Ali, get proper legal advice as suggested by earlier posters. You seem to have very poor access to good legal advice. Did your brother get his £18k back from the council?0

[philmycoke]

Guys,

Lets get one thing straight.

Bickering over things which matter not are not important.

What is worse is I am confused, stressed about the situation without some of you going through my writing through eyes of judge jury and executioner.

In January 2006 my mother died.

September 2006 I was asked by my brother to visit the solicitor and pay money to begin work on the will, which now I know is called probate.

Since then I have had no further contact, documents or conversations regarding all this upto the point of my last post in 2011.

Grants of probate, title change, letter attatached, witness signatures, deeds of variation and any subsequent letters or phonecalls etc I am not aware off.

What I gather from what we know is my brother and his witch, I mean is wife decided to play the game of robbery.

All letters on my behalf, signatures and all matters regarding changing the will, titles and taking full ownership was done without my knowledge or consent.

Upto today I have no need for my 50%.

I have depression and other mental issues and I have no desire to use any money for anything. Motivation for life is not there.

I have no need.

Only recently the talk of selling up, removing me etc has taken place.

therefore I decided to call solicitors, write on forums and speak with family members.

With what I have in hand shows I have agreed to excusing myself from the will, 50% share of the home and given it all to my brother.

Reality is I know nothing of it and I am not in any business of charity to give away at that time share of £300k and now £600k

Letter attached which has few lies I have not seen until I spoke with the probate solicitor.

Probate and the letter was done by this solicitor.

Probate by one partner and letter was sent by another partner.

therefore letter solicitor I have not paid.

Never spoken to.

2nd solictors must of made the avidavid / deeds of variation which I feel is one document.

This must have been witnessed to signatures by me and brother.

I did not.

I don’t know the witness not seen the document so I cant not comment.

That this solicitor did the title change work and anything else so my brother had everything to submit to the mortgage company.

My brother took everything and submitted the paperwork to 3rd solicitor firm to finalise everything.

Since 2007 and recession I did not need the money and my brother did not need to remortage because of low interest rates of 0.5%.

The TRV 1 or title change document which gave my brother full entitlement or full titles has a section for 4 signatures. 2 by a witness to say he has witnessed both signatures.

I spoke with him.

He says I never went to him with this document.

My brother never went to him with this documents and nor did WE go to him to sign anything in 2006.

The witness keeps saying I do not remember.

I was trying to get “I did not” out of him.

He says he will go to court and say the same thing as he never signs anything official for anyone including his own family members.

we know for a fact that this title change permission is false document.

We also know this affidavit or deeds of variation one of the two would of needed 4 signatures too.

I did not.

the second document is fake.

the sequence of events must be.

1. Probate work which I paid for

2. The letter attached to enter deeds of vatiation.

3. Letter submitted and deeds made.

4. Title change work.

5. Submission of the work to relevant bodies.

6. Full ownership.

Points 2 and 3 I have no clue. Witness has no clue.

The missing document HAS to be the deeds of variation which can be an avadavat.

I feel now everything is in detail of what I know.

If you are still confused. Please visit a solicitor.

Manxman in exile said:

Did your brother get his £18k back from the council?0

18k dude is sorted,

hes a good friend of the family and i helped him as much as spoke with solicitors to sort out his meetings.

i have been speaking to solicitors regarding my situation since i posted on here.

the solicitor u say on Saturday is when i posted here?

well i spoke to her on friday afternoon.

maybe i will see her on monday.

now i need to either get her or another to do the notice on the property which is not worth the paper it is written on however it will give me 15 days to figure out what he says and then ask her to go full steam ahead.

Ali

Haunter said:

Without anyone thinking that I'm being aggressive, because I'm not, I don't have to explain anything.

Haunter

thanks for your mighty input.

[Manxman in exile]

Ok - good luck with this solicitor.

If I were you I'd get an appointment with her ASAP.

Make sure before you leave her that you understand exactly what she will do for you and how much it will cost you.

 

Also - last time I looked at your PDF attachment the name of the solicitor is still visible and the firm still exists.

I think one of the site admin team has asked if you could remove the name?

I would.

[determindator]

Just quickly, I read in one of your posts you were going to use one solicitor for one issue and another for another issue. Maybe better to use one solicitor for the whole issue. Check your solicitor is properly bonafide.

https://sra.org.uk/consumers/problems/fraud-dishonesty/bogus-fake-solicitors.page

Just for the record, you may be in an area where the CAB is more busy than other areas. Any CAB office can be utilised so finding a less busy office is an option.

I know you are not going down that route but I read what you said about your experience so just for other readers to know.

[Manxman in exile]

Just one other point, Ali.

 

If (and I emphasise if) you instructed a firm of solicitors to act on your behalf of you as executor of your mother's estate, and you paid them £700 to do so, and they did not act on your instructions, you may be able to make a complaint about them.

But your story is unclear.

 

 

What did you instruct them to do when your mother died?

You don't seem to know

- just that your brother told you to do so, but you don't seem to understand what your brother was asking of you?

 

FWIW I feel sorry for you.

I think, simply from what you have posted here, that you might be being exploited by family members.

I say "think" because you seem to be unable (for whatever reasons) to explain coherently what has happened.

 

I know you are going to a solicitor.

That is what many others here have suggested.

Again, good luck with that.

[philmycoke]

mate don't feel sorry for me.

i have depression and other things, so my emotions are blocked so i don't feel anything. it happens when you been depressed for so long, emotions get suppressed.

originals, first solicitor's were instructed to do something, i was the executor and named trustee of the will. what ever that means. her 50% came to me. and they got £700 to do the work, or what was in the will.

From the point of paying them to 2011 i had not spoken to them. once. and since then not again only via email.

now from family home as he was the "elder" etc. he took money and bought a house and dubai property x3.

i know he has not declared them to the tax man and he's or his wife getting some kind of "credits" someone said it must be tax credits.

Also with the fake or false or forgery of signatures on x3 documents at least means.

if the solicitors says more then £3000 i will go to the police and that will be just the beginning.

i might not feel it. however my bum feels intruded upon.