Autonet referred my Partner to KINDERTON (NON FAULT ACCIDENT )

[oh.for.a.lottery.win]

My partner was involved in an accident hit from behind the other driver admitted liability.

The insurance company referred the management of the claim to Kindertons.

Kindertons suggested using a hire vehicle which my partner declined originally as the vehicle was driven home and used for work for another week so was deemed not necessary.

The advisor from Kindertons told my partner that the cost of hire was free and if the hire was taken up it would speed up the claim so my partner was using the hire vehicle for a over a month while calling to ask when it would be collected.

Kindertons kept saying they thought it already had been collected

This was two weeks after a cheque was issued from the other party.

Since the other party have paid, Kindertons have sent several emails requesting a form be signed.

The form appears to have my partner as the hirer and liable for charges. As far as I can tell this is in excess of £5,000.

They are claiming the form needs to be signed to claim the hire charges from the other party.

 

 

KINDERTONS Agreement+TCs.pdf

[BankFodder]

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we have heard of this kind of thing before where an insurer apparently recommends some other company which turns out to be a hire company and then tries to recover the hire fees from whoever they can. Ahem.

I expect that my site team colleague @dx100uk will be along fairly soon because I know that he has a fair-minded experience of these situations and also will know the name of at least one or two of the other companies who are on the same game.

I haven't looked at your post documents yet but for the moment sign nothing

And by the way, you have been here since 2009. Surely you must know by now that we don't appreciate solid blocks of text. It makes story is very difficult to read especially when people are using small screens such as telephones.

I have restructured your opening post for you – but I'd rather not have to do it again

[oh.for.a.lottery.win]

Thank you BankFodder.

[BankFodder]

I see that the two documents you have posted above are some kind of hire agreement.
It would also be helpful in future if you could post documents in a single file multipage format. Multiple files are unhelpful to us – especially when they are not named in a way which indicates what their contents.

I see that the first page is an unsigned agreement – at least only signed by somebody who is identified as the lessor. Who is that person?

Have you signed an agreement?

And by the way, who is the insurer?

[oh.for.a.lottery.win]

The insurer is Autonet. Recently received a quote for this year 5 x the cost of last years insurance.

[BankFodder]

I asked you who the lessor was.  You haven't reponded.

I asked you if you have signed an agreement and you haven't responded

[oh.for.a.lottery.win]

My partner has not signed the document

the signature I don't know who the lessor is I would imagine it's the hire company.

I was unable to cover my partners details without editing one page and saving.

[dx100uk]

pdfs merged, thread title updated.

refer it to autonet.

if there was money due from your use of the hire car that should have been sought from the other party under the settlement.

Kinderton are up the creak here as they didn't get you to sign the agreement when they dropped off the car. Do Not Sign It.

this is all to familiar to yea ole auxilis debacle covered here in many threads...scary very scary...

Showing results for 'auxilis'. - Consumer Action Group

this link points to the whole threads not the posts ..hit 'programmable' word below

 Programmable Search Engine

CSE.GOOGLE.COM

 

 

 

 

[oh.for.a.lottery.win]

Thank you dx100uk. Should I email Autonet with my opening post? What are the implications if my partner refuses to sign?

[dx100uk]

simply fwd it to autonet with ref to case xxxx

3 hours ago, oh.for.a.lottery.win said:

They are claiming the form needs to be signed to claim the hire charges from the other party.

but the claim is already settled is it not?

28 minutes ago, oh.for.a.lottery.win said:

What are the implications if my partner refuses to sign?

if you go read a few of the threads i pointed you too....you'll see that typically these hire companies want YOU to be the claimant by taking a 3rd party to court to try and make them pay for this extortionately expensive 'courtesy' car which you were led to believe would be free. 9/10 you lose as the otherside, quite rightly, says hang on thats a very expensive free courtesy car m'lud..and you become responsible for paying it and the ruling is enforceable by the court.

most times people have already signed a their hire agreement and there is no get out. your mrs didnt sign it, they have no legal proof she had the car, so would have to prove that first.....

if you wish, please scan up the emails to one mass PDF in date order please

read upload carefully.

me thinks they are up the creek with no paddle and can't legally prove she now used it for a month. 

dx

[oh.for.a.lottery.win]

Having clicked on KINDERTONS link from the email, there were four forms to be signed.

My partner doesn't use computers which Kindertons were told several times but he kept requesting that I sign the electronic form after their calls.

I did not think I'd signed any and only believe I'd completed an online form from a solicitor regarding injury.

When I checked Kindertons I have found one form appears to be signed (typed which anyone could have done) but no date marked next to the signature.

Is my partner now involved with their credit agreement?

I have included the form mentioned below.

GTA MITIGATION STATEMENT OF TRUTH

To Whom It May Concern, I can confirm:-
My vehicle xxxxxxxxxx and my occupation is OTHER.

 I understand the hire vehicle is provided on a Credit Hire basis and is not a Courtesy Car. As a vehicle owner and driver, I can confirm I use my vehicle for the following reasons.

•   Transporting family to and from destinations

•   To visit the shops of my choosing for groceries and anything else

•   Visiting friends and family with plans that we may have

•   Social, Domestic and Pleasure use

  Because of the reasons above I will require a similar replacement while my vehicle is off the road.

  With the stated reasons above, a hire vehicle will be provided.
  I could not have made do with a lower class of hire vehicle as it would not have met my needs.

  I can confirm the facts outlined in this statement are true to the best of my knowledge.

  /sign_field/ /date_signed_field/

  Name ...................................................... Date ................................................

[dx100uk]

scan them all up to one mass pdf please

dx

 

[oh.for.a.lottery.win]

Apologies, I panicked when I went through the forms, my partners name was included under the signature box but the sig box is blank. None of the four forms have been signed. 

[dx100uk]

would of been alot simpler to have scanned all the forms up as asked....then none of this would have happened...

[unclebulgaria67]

agree with dx on this.  They are trying it on, hoping that someone would be daft enough to sign their documents. 

The third party Insurers are not going to pay for a very expensive hire car for more days than it was needed for. 

Can you provide a breakdown of what other aspects were part of the claim and who is/was dealing ? e.g. damage to own vehicle, personal injury, loss of income, other losses.

[oh.for.a.lottery.win]

Good morning. OH was offered treatment for back pain via a solicitor which he accepted. This has been ongoing for several weeks.

He originally told Kindertons he did not need a vehicle from them as he'd driven his vehicle home from the accident and continued to drive it to work for a week but the woman insisted it would be free and more importantly would speed up the claim process.

He told her due to his work he only need a small vehicle but a brand new top of the range large vehicle was delivered.

His vehicle was written off and an offer made. He had the vehicle repaired himself.

There was no loss of income as he continued to work while fitting in medical treatment. On three separate calls he asked if the vehicle was free and was told yes they just need a signature to chase the other party for the cost. He informed her in more than one call he doesn't use the internet so cannot sign electronic forms. 

[oh.for.a.lottery.win]

OH has received another call from Kindertons requesting a signature. He once again requested in writing that he was not liable for any costs as he has been told from the beginning.

The woman insisted he would not. He asked her hypothetically what if Kindertons take the other party to court assuming they won't pay the hire charges, who would then be liable for the court fees and hire charges would it be him? The woman who apparently sounded like she was reading from a card replied not him.

An email has now been received from Kindertons. I would be grateful for advice on this matter bearing in mind no forms have been signed.

Good Morning

Please keep this email as confirmation that no costs will be charged to yourself for the cost of the Hire.

Whilst you are liable for the hire charges Kindertons indemnifies these losses. The third party insurer will pay the hire charges and if for any reason the charges are not paid Kindertons will not pursue you for payment of these charges. The only exception is if you knowingly and wilfully mislead us or actively fail to cooperate with our attempts to recover the hire charges from the third party insurer.

If you would look to sign the outstanding Hire agreement it would be gratefully received.

Many thanks

[BankFodder]

Sorry but I have been out of the loop on this for a while. I'm trying to get back and I'm going to have a closer look later on today.

However from what I understand so far – and from other cases which I have looked at on the Facebook page, it seems to me that your contract is with the insurer. They are responsible for everything.

I would refuse to sign anything with kinderton at this point and if they want to reply then they have to be told that your contract is with the insurer and everything will be done through them – and that you have no legal relationship with kinderton and no legal obligation and no legal responsibility towards them, kinderton.

This would be my starting point.

By trying to get you to sign directly with them, they are trying to establish some legal/contractual responsibility/liability to you – and as far as I can see, there is no legal basis which entitles them to do this.

If this is what they want you to do – then this is certainly what you should avoid doing.

If it is good for them then you can be pretty certain that it is bad for you.

[oh.for.a.lottery.win]

Thank you BankFodder, I have passed your advice to OH.

[BankFodder]

As you seem to be doing a lot of this on the telephone, I don't suppose you have any evidence that they told you that it would be free of charge.

I would suggest that you read our customer services guide, install a call recording app on your mobile phone or else on a landline and then phone them again and have broadly the same conversation and see if you can get it recorded.
You don't need to warn them. There is nothing illegal. And it will help you a great deal.
I think I would do this is the first step before they realise that you are getting into conflict with them.

You could telephone them and say that you still haven't signed the form and you are just a bit concerned and that previous people have told you that the car hire is free. You are worried about it. Get them to commit themselves that it is free and then you can end the telephone conversation because you have the recording.

If you go down this route then you should practice with the recording app or the recording device several times until you are absolutely comfortable with it and it doesn't have some kind of malfunction you forget to switch on or something at a crucial moment.

Read our customer services guide.

I think you are in a good position anyway – but a recording will settle the matter.

Secondly, I see that you are doing this on behalf of your partner. I think it will be a lot better if your partner became directly involved. If this ended up going to court it would have to be your partner who would bring the action and even present the case in court. They need to be thoroughly acquainted with what is happening, the discussions here, the whole process.

It is generally speaking unhelpful to conduct this kind of discussion through a third party actor.


 

[oh.for.a.lottery.win]

Beware your insurer referring you to KINDERTONS for courtesy car (also AUXILIS)

[unclebulgaria67]

I think you should raise a complaint with your Insurance company about the poor handling of your claim particularly the unnecessary hassle from Kindertons.  Explain what happened about being forced without proper consent into a hire car, that they now want a signature from you after the event, so they can pursue from third party.

Your Insurers have a responsibility to ensure that the service provided meets with the required standards.

[BankFodder]

On 04/03/2024 at 11:09, oh.for.a.lottery.win said:

 

An email has now been received from Kindertons. I would be grateful for advice on this matter bearing in mind no forms have been signed.

Good Morning

Please keep this email as confirmation that no costs will be charged to yourself for the cost of the Hire.

Whilst you are liable for the hire charges Kindertons indemnifies these losses. The third party insurer will pay the hire charges and if for any reason the charges are not paid Kindertons will not pursue you for payment of these charges. The only exception is if you knowingly and wilfully mislead us or actively fail to cooperate with our attempts to recover the hire charges from the third party insurer.

If you would look to sign the outstanding Hire agreement it would be gratefully received.

Many thanks

I have found time to have a closer look at this after the confusion about this thread.
I'm afraid that the delay in your engagement with the thread and also the posting by somebody else of their own story on this thread which confused us as we thought that it was all same story, has caused some misunderstanding.

I'm looking at this message which you received from kinderton on 4 March.

The message makes me feel far more comfortable about the status of the hire car which you have used.
There is a certain ambiguity in the message but it seems to me on an ordinary reading that they are saying that they will bear the cost of hire if for some reason rather they can't retrieve the money from the third party.
They do want you to cooperate with their attempts to recover the hire charges – and that seems extremely reasonable.

Have you responded to this message yet?

I think it is important to show that you are cooperating because the one element which could trigger your liability could be that if you don't help them to recover losses from the third party.
I think it would be worth sending them a message

Quote

Dear XXX

Reference number XXX

With reference to your message to me of XXX date where you undertake not to pursue me for vehicle hire charges if you are unable to recover them from the third party, I am worried that you begin your message saying that I am "liable for the hire charges".
I'm afraid that your firm seems to have a reputation for giving assurances of free vehicle loans to your customers and then resigning from that position and chasing them for the loan costs.
I'm not prepared to put myself in that position.
Of course I am more than happy to cooperate with you in any way that helps you to recover losses from the third party, but I am concerned that you consider that I have an initial liability in the matter.
I was persuaded to accept your courtesy car on the basis that it was exactly that – a loan/courtesy vehicle and that it would be lent to me free of charge and unconditionally.
This was made clear to me in a telephone conversation on XXX date with your member of staff XXX (do you have the name?) – And I accepted the vehicle only on that basis.
I would not have accepted the use of the vehicle in any other circumstances.
Your offer of a loan vehicle to me was made unconditionally and although I am happy to help you recover your costs from the third party, this is a matter entirely for you
Please will you confirm to me in writing that I have no liability for the cost of the courtesy vehicle. On that basis there would be no need to indemnify me as the costs would be absorbed by yourself or recovered by you from the third party.

As soon as I receive this assurance from you, I shall sign the documents and return them to you.
Please note that when I signed the documents, I shall include a rider that reflects my position as stated above.

Signed
 

I would suggest that you send them something like that.
Do you have the name of the person you spoke to? I hope so – it will be helpful.

Before you send this off, – do you still have the vehicle?

[oh.for.a.lottery.win]

Thank you unclebulgaria67 but I don't feel they would help now. The insurance was recently to expire. We received a quote 5 times the usual quote. I searched for a lower quote which wasn't difficult, OH is now insured by another company.

Thank you for reading the email BankFodder. I'm not sure who took the first telephone conversation, OH said it's a different person each time. I will read your suggestion to him. I'm just a little concerned this will open the door to them to do as they wish. I have read a great many horror stories concerning this company.

[BankFodder]

Keep everything in writing. When you speak to anybody on the phone, get a name and reference number. Refuse to speak to anybody unless you get a name. If they only give you their first name then you are a department and frankly you should be recording all of your calls. That in respect of this company but in respect of anybody you deal with because you can't trust anybody.

It's a terrible shame but nowadays you get anonymous call handlers who say all sorts of things either to get your business or to get you off the phone and later on it is all deniable