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    • That explains it then. MET's fantasy is that it's a pay car park.  You're only let off paying if you are a Starbucks customer which you can't be when Starbucks is closed.  'Cos otherwise lots of people would abuse the car park facilities on the far edge of the Stansted Airport area in the middle of nowhere to ... admire the bushes?  Look at the cloudy sky? The important thing is that we have around 140 cases for this site, and MET have only tried court seven times.  Even then, they had no intention of getting as far as a hearing, they were attempting to intimidate the motorists into paying, when the Caggers defended the cases MET discontinued.
    • She's an only child and he as a brother and sister. He has no will and we have done a check on this to find out if he had left one and nothing has come up. He has savings of around 28k His sister and brother are well off so 28k is nothing to them and aren't interested in his money. This just leaves my wife/his daughter. Would this still need to go to probate there is no estate e.g house or business to sell and the amount left in his bank is just small? When his wife died they just closed her bank account and moved her money across to his account and we just assumed that once my wife has handed in the death certificate and shown evidence of who she is the same would apply to her? We don't know yet the council have only just written to us today with a guide of what to do next.  
    • Did your FiL leave a Will and if so who is the Executor? Strictly speaking banks could refuse to take instructions until Probate is granted but In practice I would expect the bank to take instructions to cancel the DD if the Executor presents the death certificate and a certified copy of the Will
    • Hi   Sorry I probably wasn't clear enough. He had lived in the flat until December 2022 with Dementia by this time it was unsafe for him to have capacity to live on his own and he had to move into a nursing home. We had left it too late to apply for power of attorney so approached a solicitor in March last year for Deputyship. We were still in the process of dealing with it by May 2024. He passed away a few weeks ago and the solicitor was contacted to halt the application and we will just pay the fees of what work he has done up until now. My wife was the named person on her dads bank account but we didn't have the ability to alter any direct debits hence the reasons for applying for Deputyship as we were having problems trying to stop some payments coming out of his account Eon being another difficult company. We kept his flat on from December 2022 - August 2023. it was at this point I contacted Sancutary housing to inform them he was no longer living in the flat, it had been cleared out and was ready for a new tenant and that he had Dementia and had moved into a nursing home December 2022 and explained the reasons why we kept it on. As the named person to speak on his behalf I asked them what proof they needed in order to give notice on the flat e.g proof of dementia and proof that he was living in a nursing home and anything else they wanted. The lady in the upstairs flat and some of the other residence in the street had asked about him and we had told them he had moved into a nursing home. The lady in the upstairs flat wanted his flat for medical reasons so asked us once we had given notice could be let her know and she'll ask them if she can have it. We explained the difficulties and it was left at that but I did tell her I would let her know once notice was given. I contacted the company by email a number of times and also telephone conversations and nobody followed it up and it wasn't till the end of February this year that the housing manager for the area wrote to our home address to ask about him that he had been to the flat a couple of times and nobody answered and he had asked some of the residence in the street and they hadn't seen him for sometime. There was an email address on the letter so I contacted him and copied in the last 2 emails I sent Sanctuary regarding me wanting to give notice on the flat for at least 9 months explaining that it went ignored as well as telephone calls. I also stated I wanted to have his rent payments returned from the date I wanted to give notice which was from August 2023 as the bank wouldn't let us stop the DD without POT or deputyship explaining we were in the process of Deputyship. He gave some excuse about not having POT to cancel on his behalf and spoke to someone in HR and said he would contact the nursing home to confirm he was there with Dementia and if it all checks out we can give notice on the flat which came to an end on the 22 March 2024. There was not mention of back payments for the rent already paid or the fact I had asked to give notice in August 2023. Despite someone living in the flat from 1st April they continue to take DD payments for the flat and have taken another 2 payments of £501. another concerning thing despite Eon not allowing us to cancel the DD to his account the lady upstairs informed Eon that she was moving into the flat February 2024 and Eon refunding the account to his bank and said in an email sorry you are leaving us and canceled his account. Something they wouldn't let us do but a stranger. She also changed her bank account to his address despite the fact notice hadn't been given on the flat yet. So we need to find out how much information Sanctuary actually had for her to tell her power company she was moving into the flat in February despite the housing manager only just getting in contact to find out where he was. So a complaint is going into Eon and Sanctuary and we are going to take advice and ask the bank to charge back the rent. My wife hasn't taken the death certificate to the bank yet to inform them of his passing.  
    • Yes, I believe the Starbucks was closed at the time the car was parked there 
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

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One Parking Solutions Windscreen PCN - private flat bays, share of freehold . - Durrington, West Sussex.


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The NTK is pretty good at complying with the Act  as is the Notice to Driver so no help there. I seem to remember OPS getting hammered by a Judge [in brighton I think] so they seem to have tightened po their act since.

The organ grinder is the MA and the monkey is OPS.

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Good on them for following the rules. They still haven't proven that I'm the driver though right?

I also checked the council's website and there's no planning permission for the signs.

No luck with the organ grinder. I think I'll need to take this to court and win to prove my point to the other freeholders.

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Indeed.  It's them that will have to take you to court if they ever want to see any money.  They know full well how difficult it is for the private parking companies to win residential cases,. 

We could do with some help from you.

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Thanks guys, that's reassuring.

Let's say hypothetically, I went to court and I beat them. What would be the potential consequences of that for them? Would they be forced to leave the residence?

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no.

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Posted (edited)

Sadly - no.

They would have sued you because they reckoned you owed them the money they have invoiced you for.

The judge would have considered the matter and conluded you didn't owe the money.

That's all.

Edited by FTMDave
Typo

We could do with some help from you.

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I see... so, I'll still need to find a way to get rid of OPS.

One more question, would beating them at court ensure future PCNs are invalid/unlawful??

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no.

county court judgements dont set a precedence, though quoting it before any others got to court stage might make them think twice about trying court again.

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Have you seen dbuk2000's result?

Absolutely thrashed a PPC in a residential parking case today.

We could do with some help from you.

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Thanks both, so I just read the thread. It looks promising but the OP in that case had one key trump card, primacy of lease. Not sure if that will properly apply in my case.

What do you think?

 

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I think you have the supremacy of contract as it allows you to park in designated areas.

I would argue that there being parking enforcement there clearly means its to be used as parking and as such you can use it under your lease.

Only need to worry if they ever follow through with a letter of claim and a claimform though

We could do with some help from you.

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Posted (edited)

An update: I just got another PCN. I get the feeling that someone in the residence is calling OPS, as it's dated for a few mins after I parked. I won't appeal of course.

Interestingly, our cleaner was also parked but didn't get a PCN. I asked them why and apparently they're whitelisted. I did ask the MA if they could whitelist me and they said they couldn't. Clearly they decided not to tell the truth.

Surely, this would resolve all of the issues entirely i.e. we'd keep non-residents from parking, whilst allowing for residents to park without issue?

Also, could OPS now take me to court for both PCNs separately, or could it be one case?

 

 

Edited by iamgnome
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21 minutes ago, iamgnome said:

Also, could OPS now take me to court for both PCNs separately, or could it be one case?

It'd be up to them.  They could decide to combine the two tickets or deal with each separately.

Of course they could whitelist you, but then they wouldn't make any money.  Their job is not sensible management of a car park.  There job is to make up idiotic rules that motorists break so they can write their PCNs.

It sticks in my throat to say this, but maybe if at all possible for a bit respect their stupid rules and avoid PCNs.  If there are one or two tickets then OPS will be wary of doing court as they know how difficult it is to win well-defended residential parking cases.  If it gets to four or five then they are likely to be blinded by greed and to go for court.

We could do with some help from you.

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Thanks Dave, that all sounds clear to me.

In terms of avoiding PCNs, I'm not sure if I can. I need to be able to park in that spot, especially as I've got kids to lug forth and back for the school run.

Likewise it's not always possible to use the MA's permit system either, as I've not always got them to hand.

So, if I'm actively avoiding PCNs, then it could mean I've given in to their idiotic rules. But, I do get what you're saying, as I imagine the risks go up if they claim there are multiple PCNs to be paid at court.

Not sure what to do with this one.

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The whole  point of white listing is so that those who are entitled to park there don't get ticketed -like cleaners for example.

And the residents too of course if the system is designed to prevent non residents from misusing the area which is the usual excuse for bringing in the parking scrotes. that they are also targeting the residents would imply that you are fair game and your MAs are quite happy to make make money out of you all. Nice guys.

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Thanks - completely agreed.

Is it common that MAs also profit from PCNs?

I've decided that I am going to fight this. It's clearly unjust, and I need to try my best to get these scammers out of my residence, even if I risk losing at court.

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In my time I've never seen a payout/commission from a PPC to a landlord/MA.

Normally the installation of all the cameras/payment of warden patrols etc is free but PPCs keep 100% of the ticket revenue.

Not saying it doesn't happen mind.

I've done some more digging on this:

Remember, what your lease doesn't say is just as important as what it does say. If your lease doesn't mention a parking scheme/employment of a PPC/Paying PCNs etc you're under no legal obligation to play along to the PPC's or the MA's "Terms and conditions". I highly doubt your lease had a variation in place to bring in this permit system.

Your lease will likely have a "quiet enjoyment" clause for your demised space and the common areas and having to fight a PPC/MA just to park would breach that.

Your lease has supremacy of contract, but I do agree it's worth keeping cool and not parking there (and hence getting PCNs) for a couple months just so that the PPC doesn't get blinded by greed and go nuclear on you if you have 4 or 5 PCNs outstanding.

At your next AGM, bring it up that the parking controls need to be removed and mention the legal reasons why. One reason is that under S37(5b) Landlord and Tenant Act 1987,  more than 75% of leaseholders and/or the landlord would have needed to agree, and less than 10% opposed, for the variation to take place.
I highly doubt a ballot even happened before the PPC was bought in so OPS even being there is unlawful, breaching the terms of your lease. In this legal sense,  the communal vote of the "directors" of the freehold company would have counted for ONE vote of however many flats there are (leases/tenants) + 1 (landlord).

It's going to be interesting to see where this goes.

 

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Thanks that's an extremely helpful post.

There is no mention of a permit scheme in the lease and likewise, no variation was made to bring this system in.

I recall seeing something like a quiet enjoyment clause, but will need to re-read it and confirm.

VERY interesting point on the 1987 Act. There hasn't been an AGM in years and I've tried to get one to start to no avail. However, I'll aim to find out more about how the PPC was brought in and revert.

Can I test with you and others on the logic of not parking for a few months?

I'm ready to fight OPS, so if they go nuclear on me then surely it doesn't matter? I assume that I will keep getting PCNs as long as I live here, so it doesn't make sense for me to change the way that I park? 

Unless... You are suggesting that having 5 or so outstanding PCNs, will negatively affect any court case e.g. through bad optics? Or are we trying to force their hand to go to court with only 2 outstanding PCNs?

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If there is a whitelist and few intruders there only seems the residents to make money from. It would leave wondering what the incentive was for the MAs if there was nothing in it for them except the obvious complaints from the residents. Not that I am saying that they are getting a backhander but there seems little other reasons unless they are trying to show how well run the place is managed-not.

If they ran it properly there would be no need for OPs.

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The only way to verify whether there is any financial reward for the management is seeing the agreement. That would be required during disclosure IF court proceedings went ahead... Unless you could bring pressure to bear and get a copy?

We could do with some help from you.

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Thanks i sent across the agreement earlier in this thread.

No mention of financial reward to the MA.

But, I wouldn't be surprised if it was done on the sly. As I said earlier, the owner of OPS is a convicted criminal, with a very shady reputation around these parts.

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Sorry, I expressed myself badly.

Most people who come here are willing to go to court, but would prefer not to if at all possible.

We have a tiny minority who are terrified of court, even though we point out that a civil court hearing is no more intimidating that a job interview.

I was just pointing out that the more PCNs you get, the more money is in ir for the PPC, so the greater the chances of them doing court - which of course is damn obvious!

However, what we tend to see in residential parking cases is that the PPCs are reluctant to start court claims because they know about Supremacy of Contract and they know their case is weak.  But then when someone collects, say, five tickets, greed takes over and they rush off to court.  So i just wanted to point out that that was likely to happen.

Point taken that it is very hard to avoid getting their tickets.

If you do end up in court in the end - which is probable - then the number of tickets will not affect the judge's decision.  Either you have Supremacy of Contract or you don't.

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We could do with some help from you.

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Thanks that's appreciated and clear. I understand where you're coming from now.

I'm set on going to court, once I get the LBC. Reading up on the case law, it seems like I've got a good chance to win.

So, I will really need to get my argument firmed up on the supremacy of contract point.

I've been reading this guide on the Parking Prankster's site:

PARKING-PRANKSTER.BLOGSPOT.COM

There are many residential situations where some form of parking management is desired, but instead of...

It seems like I need to follow the arguments made in Pace v Mr N and Link Parking v Ms P.

Thoughts?

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