One Parking Solutions Windscreen PCN - private flat bays, share of freehold . - Durrington, West Sussex.

[iamgnome]

Hello all, thought I'd come to CAG for help with this. Just received a private PCN for £100 (£60 discount if paid in 14 days) for parking in the bays outside the flat where I live, without a permit.

I own the flat, and it's a share of a freehold. In practice, this means I own a small share of the company that acts as the freeholder, so have responsibilities of freeholder and leaseholder. I also have the lease with covenants etc that I can share, once I figure out how to sanitise it. I'm not a managing director of the company but have applied and am successful; though the MA is taking their sweet time with officialising it.

No one in the building has designated parking. However, there are informal parking bays. The residents use the parking bays on a 'first-come-first-served' basis.

My lease only states the following regarding parking:

'No vehicles shall be parked within the grounds of the
Property otherwise than in the garage forming part of the
demised premises or in any other part of the Property
previously approved in writing by the Landlord for that
purpose'

The MA has written the below:

'Parking restrictions apply & permits available from Managing Agent. Permits allow 1 hour parking in the Parking Bays with no return within one hour. There is a deposit of £10.00 refunded on return of permit.'

A PPC issues PCNs to those who do not use permits. I do have a permit and had one for the day, so I was surprised that the PPC didn't see it. Most of us also don't have a garage. Likewise, we don't have time to faff around for an hour-long permit + deposit.

Queries

- As permits are not mentioned in the lease, is the PCNs enforceable?

- Would I be acting lawfully in not paying the PCN i.e. does my lease have primacy?

- I understand that there is a 'contract' between the PPC and their client. Does this contract include me?

- What should I do next??

Thanks as always!!

[dx100uk]

please complete this:

do not appeal

dx

[iamgnome]

For a windscreen ticket (Notice To Driver) please answer the following questions....

1 The date of infringement? 8/3/24

2 Have you yet appealed to the parking company yet? [Y/N?] N

If you have then please post up whatever you sent and how you sent it and the date you sent it, suitably redacted. [as a PDF- follow the upload guide]

Has there been a response? N/A

Please AS A PDF FILE  ONLY ..post it up as well, suitably redacted. - follow the upload guide]

If you haven't appealed yet - .........DONT ! seek advice on your topic first.

Have you received a Notice To Keeper? (NTK) [must be received by you between 29-56 days] NO

What date is on it? N/A

Did the NTK provide photographic evidence? N/A

[scan up BOTH SIDES to ONE PDF of the PCN and your NTK - follow the upload guide] please LEAVE IN LOCATION AND ALL DATES/TIMES/£'s

3 Did the NTK mention Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) [Y/N?] N/A

4 If you appealed after receiving the NTK,

did the parking company give you any information regarding the further appeals process?

[it is well known that parking companies will reject any appeal whatever the circumstances] N/A

5 Who is the parking company? Can't say as it will doxx my location, but they are a small outfit.

6. Where exactly [Carpark name and town] did you park? Same as above. See OP, it was in my flat's parking bay.

.............................

[dx100uk]

please state the location and the parking company no need for secret squirrel.

can you scan up all the paperwork you have bothsides of everything to one mass PDF in date order please.

read upload carefully.

 

[lookinforinfo]

God knows why they have brought in a ppc since they are always going to penalise the residents since that is almost the only way they can make money. And they are there to make money-their one hour permits show that. Not one of the leaseholders will manage to leave every time within the 60 minute limit every time so will get hit for  £100 or whatever the charge is fairly frequently. It is a crazy system and will lead to the lease holders rebelling before long.

Generally the leaseholders do have primacy of contract which over rules the one from the rogues though it may depend on the finer details in the original and perhaps the second contract too.. I take it that  they are fairly new on to the estate?

You say that your PCN was issued despite you showing the permit-which was within the one hour limit. Was it on the windscreen and did the photos show it?

 

I have just seen your second post-thank you for posting it so quickly. As dx has already said-there is no need to hide certain details apart from your name and vrm. part of the reason is that the windscreen PCN followed by the Notice to Keeper are legal notices which if incorrect [and they quite often are] mean that the keeper is not responsible for the charge. Your Notice to Driver could confirm its lawfulness quite easily once you post it up.

 

[iamgnome]

Hello, please see attached. Let me know if it needs to be clearer.

Parking company is One Parking Solution. The location is Durrington, West Sussex.

To answer lookinforinfo:

This is not new, but it's the first time I received a PCN, since I moved here a while back.

I'm pretty sure the MA has a dodgy relationship with the PPC i.e. getting backhand payments for every one of these fines.

And yes, MA and board of Directors are likely crooked.

This is openly accepted by the residents, but sadly, none of them know what to do.

We're all share of freehold, so have more rights than typical leaseholders, but again, how do we change the management?

Permit was on my windscreen but did notice it fell on to my passenger seat, when I went back to my car.

The permit is an A4 sheet of paper that is printed out (yes, very professional), so easy to be knocked off by wind.

No photos as far as I can tell.

PCN 8-3-24.pdf

[lolerz]

I'd be going to the managing agents personally and kicking up a (polite) stink that you've got a PCN despite having a permit.

Pester them enough and they might just cancel the PCN just to get rid of you.

 

[dx100uk]

thread title updated

dx

 

[lolerz]

As for your questions:

- As permits are not mentioned in the lease, are the PCNs enforceable? No

- Would I be acting lawfully in not paying the PCN i.e. does my lease have primacy? Yes, providing that your lease mentions use of the Car Park.

- I understand that there is a 'contract' between the PPC and their client. Does this contract include me? Not personally, no. The contract will be between the PPC and the Freehold Company.

- What should I do next?? Call the managing agent and get them to cancel.

[iamgnome]

Thanks guys, I should've said that I did call the MA. He says he won't cancel because it's 'unfair on the other leaseholders' and that he needs to be 'impartial'. I called out that he worked for us and should cancel as the PCN goes against the spirit of their issuance (to stop non-residents from parking in our area). Shall I write them a letter?

In terms of the lease, it doesn't explicitly mention parking in the bays. However, there are written references to it outside the lease e.g. the 'permit system' and 'management rules. Likewise, it's commonly used for that purpose by the residents. Would that be enough to uphold primacy?

[lolerz]

"Management rules" and the "permit system" mean nothing compared to your lease. They're nothing more than random "restrictions" being put in place. You'll need to be firmer than that because they will just brush you off in the first instance.

If your lease states you're allowed to use that area to park vehicles that trumps everything. If they're not demised spaces you can park wherever you like in that area.

Find that bit of your lease and post it here and we'll advise further.

[iamgnome]

I've looked carefully and all I can find is the bit I put in the OP:

'No vehicles shall be parked within the grounds of the
Property otherwise than in the garage forming part of the
demised premises or in any other part of the Property
previously approved in writing by the Landlord for that
purpose'

The area I parked in is definitely not mentioned as demised premises and seem to be a part of the communal areas. What do you think?

[lolerz]

Has the landlord stated in writing that the area can be used for parking?

[iamgnome]

That's a good question, who is the landlord? Technically, it's me and the others who hold a share in the freehold, but what would that mean in practice?

The management rules etc. seems to be most consistent written acknowledgement of it. If that's not good enough, then it surely begs the question of why myself and others are using it the area as parking, when it shouldn't be used as that?

[lolerz]

The freeholder(landlord) would be the freehold company in this case. Of which you have a share of. This would be the landowner the PPC would need the contract with as well. 
 

[lolerz]

Sorry, just noticed in the OP that you've been successful in being appointed a director of the freehold company?

In that case, just contact the PPC directly to cancel the PCN using your authority as Director, once made official (push the MA on this immediately). No need to try and argue the toss with anyone then.

That's provided the MA has done everything properly and took out the contract in the name of the freeholder and not themselves.

Also call a Director's meeting with the MA with the agenda of removing the PPC with immediate affect.

[iamgnome]

Alright, I'll try to get Directorship done, but I reckon the MA is just going to drag it out, especially if it means getting this PCN cancelled.

Can I also request a copy of the contract between the PPC and the Company (or MA)? Seems like it might be a good way to figure out what to write to the MA, if the contract is in their name.

[lolerz]

No harm in requesting the contract. Especially once you're a director.

Yes push on getting the Director application done, this PCN should not matter whatsoever.

IMO you should name and shame the Managing Agent as they seem to be failing on the basics. Wouldn't surprise me if they've signed the PPC contract in their name instead of the freeholder's name (which immediately makes it null and void as they don't own the land!). Can't confirm this without seeing the contract though.

[iamgnome]

Alright I'll see what I can do. Thanks for the advice mate. Will keep everyone updated

[lookinforinfo]

Not quite sure why you all agreed to allow the rogues in at all. Surely as joint free holders you had the right to veto them moving in . And surely you have the power to remove them?

As for your question about where you parked-demised or not-it doesn't matter. You have only been charged with not showing your permit and that  is a bit strange if it was on the seat. Hard to miss an A4 sheet of paper...............

[iamgnome]

This was before my time, but as I mentioned the Directors are likely crooked and sing to the tune of the MA.

And yes I know why I was charged and I'm quite annoyed about it. Most residents don't even show their permits, as it is a huge faff. So, this is doubly annoying.

[Ethel Street]

I'm  not convinced that when you become a director of the company that owns the freehold that will give you authority to direct the PPC to cancel your PCN. Authority to do that sits with the board of directors as a whole, and anyone they have delegated that power to. It's unlikely individual directors are authorised by the board of the freehold-owning company to give directions to the PPC, especially a direction to cancel their own PCN! 

What you can do is start making a  bloody nuisance of yourself at board meetings to get the matter re-addressed.

I don't understand how the parking works at the flats. If you are supposed to have a permit to park in the communal car park but even with a permit parking is limited to "1 hour parking in the Parking Bays with no return within one hour" where are residents supposed to park the rest of the time?

[iamgnome]

Yes agreed. I don't think it will solve it, but it might give the issue more coverage. I'm not the only one who has complained about this, but I seem to be the only one willing to make a nuisance. So will continue doing so.

BTW there doesn't seem to be any board meetings that shareholders are invited to me. As mentioned, there are a host of other issues with the MA and Board, who likely are doing shady dealings. However this parking directly affects our wallets and goes against the spirit of why there might be a PPC here e.g. to stop randoms from parking in our area. So, this parking issue might be the best way to also start addressing the wider problems.

I'll keep you all updated especially when I get the RTK notice. But any further thoughts or advice would be appreciated.

[lolerz]

Usually in this situation, the freehold company is dormant. It only exists to hold the freehold title to the property (and be the legal base for the leases). When you buy a share of freehold you buy a share of said company. There's usually an RTM (Right to Manage) or RMC (Resident Management Company) set up that handles the day-to-day running, which may outsource this to a Managing Agent like has been done here. Legally these are separate entities with their own accounting periods and company records etc.

Naturally, the PPC will need the contract in the name of the FREEHOLD company, not the management company.

I do agree that you do need to make yourself a nuisance to get the PCN canceled. Directors meetings, calling the MA etc. Don't let them fob you off like they did last time.

[iamgnome]

Thanks lolerz, the freehold company is indeed dormant. I am unsure how the RTM company works, but that seems to be by design, as all of the residents don't know either.

I've also asked for the contract and demanded again that the PCN be cancelled. No response yet, but I might be the first lessee to do this in a while, so they're probably a bit shook! Let you know what they say...