HMRC Penalties £2000 For Not Submitting S.A - I Deregistered a few years ago. ***Resolved***

[mystic_bertie]

Good evening folks

I deregistered from self assessment a few years ago.

I have not been using my gov gateway account as they made it impossible to access my account, my login details were no longer good enough and when i tried to verify myself it always failed.

I tried again today to get into my gov account and i finally got into it.

Its disgusting how difficult they make it these people should be shot.

I was shocked to see that i have just under £2000 in penalties for not submitting a self assessment each year.

This has drove my stress through the roof.

I have never had any letters or emails to say that i owed this money ,

i deregistered from S.A, im disgusted that they are charging me in this way.

What is the best way to deal with this situation?

[slick132]

Hi Bertie,

First off, make sure you now know how to log in to HMRC SA whenever you need, so you can keep tabs on events or updates.

Next is to make a formal SAR to HMRC for your SA tax account - this should give you info from them about what's happened on your account.

Do you know how, when and why you deregistered ?

When we have more info from you, we can suggest your best next move to approach HMRC to challenge their apparent failure to reregister and the penalties that have since accrued.

[mystic_bertie]

hi and many thanks for your help.

I logged in and then set up the Microsoft authentication app, then when i tried it again it failed, i used my phone number instead.

Its a terrible terrible system. 

If i send them a SAR what address do i send this too and is there a template for this? 

I cant remember when i deregistered exactly.

It now makes me wonder if i missed something or did not do it properly.

It makes you question everything.

Is them failing to deregister people a common thing?

 

[slick132]

Check out "Send HMRC a SAR" online as I think you can do it online (via HMRC portal) and this will be your best starter. If you have trouble, come back for help as I've not had time to research this thoroughly. You can always print and send a request by post but you need to find the right address.

I can't comment about deregistering problems being a common thing but I DO know that it's easy to FAIL to do things in the exact way required by HMRC to achieve what you want.

[dx100uk]

Make a subject access request to HMRC - GOV.UK

WWW.GOV.UK

---

Find out how to ask for access to personal data that HMRC holds about you, or someone who has died.

 

dx

[slick132]

Thanks DX, is this the simple link ?

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/hmrc-subject-access-request

 

[dx100uk]

yep i dont know why we keep getting these apple touch pad links everytime. i dont use apple devices never have!

[Ethel Street]

I have a feeling that if HMRC are making a demand for payment, whether for taxes or penalties, they still send you a demand through the post to your home as as well as posting on your SA account. They don't rely on the online account alone.

Presumably they have your current address?

I'm not certain about that but something for you to check.

 

[mystic_bertie]

@slick132 many thanks for your reply and posting the link. Ill get that request done today.

 

@dx100uk many thanks for your reply  

 

@Ethel Street Thanks for your reply. I have never received a letter from them. I could not get online to update my address in the past but they would get my new address through the dwp as i was claiming UC on and off at my previous addresses. I called the dwp yesterday and updated my address, its now showing on my gov gateway account today, this proves they would have my current address. If i had received 1 letter mentioning any penalty i would have phoned them right away.  

[mystic_bertie]

guys i have done the SAR request online many thanks for your help  

 

[slick132]

It's my understanding that HMRC use their portal to send you communications INSTEAD of using post.

I've had experience of them sending multiple reminders for SA returns, then imposing £100's in fines for failure to file on time, all sent online to the portal with nothing at all by post.

Meanwhile, let us know what tax year(s) HMRC say are outstanding and the penalties imposed for each.

 

[mystic_bertie]

@slick132 Hi and many thanks for your reply. I tried to copy and paste all the relevant information below, it's confusing as some of the years there are no penalties or transactions. I have an outstanding amount of personal tax and i think that is included in the total they are saying i owe, during covid i agreed to pay that back at £10 a month and i have just continued with that arrangement as my finances have never recovered. 

I have attached the last edited statement for you to have a glance at too if you could be so kind  

 

Penalties
05 Apr 2022    21 Sep 2023    6 month late filing penalty    300.00
05 Apr 2022    21 Sep 2023    Daily penalty    900.00
05 Apr 2022    23 Mar 2023    Late filing penalty    100.00
05 Apr 2020    24 Mar 2022    6 months late payment penalty    51.00
05 Apr 2020    24 Mar 2022    30 days late payment penalty

Account View
Tax year ending 05 Apr 2022    1,318.70
Tax year ending 05 Apr 2020    653.92
Total    1,972.62

Tax year ending Apr 2023

Tax    0.00
Surcharges    0.00
Interest    0.00
Penalties    0.00
Sub total    0.00
Less payments for this year    0.00
Less other adjustments    0.00
Total    0.00

Tax year ending Apr 2022

Tax    0.00
Surcharges    0.00
Interest    18.70
Penalties    1,300.00
Sub total    1,318.70
Less payments for this year    0.00
Less other adjustments    0.00
Total    1,318.70

Tax year ending Apr 2021

Tax    -312.00
Tax overpaid from return filed    312.00
Surcharges    0.00
Interest    0.00
Penalties    0.00
Sub total    0.00
Less payments for this year    0.00
Less other adjustments    0.00
Total    0.00

Tax year ending Apr 2020

Tax    1,420.57
Surcharges    0.00
Interest    90.49
Penalties    110.00
Sub total    1,621.06
Less payments for this year    967.14
Less other adjustments    0.00
Total    653.92

hmrc statement.pdf

[mystic_bertie]

@slick132 Good evening. Did you get a chance to go over my info  

[slick132]

Hi MB,

No, not in detail yet but I'll try to go through it tommorrow.

I'm more interested in what comes back from the SAR.

Edited November 21, 2023 by slick132
format

[slick132]

Hi MB,

Earlier you said you're not sure when you (tried to) deregister but you should at least know  :-

1. What tax year you last filed a tax return.

2. What year you think you no longer needed to file a return.

3. What changed that meant you no longer needed to file returns.

When you reply, we can work on you filing an appeal against the late return penalties.

[mystic_bertie]

@slick132 hi thanks for your reply i really appreciate it.

I will login to my account and see when my last tax return was, it was tax year 2020/2021, i have all the documents on my pc i forgot about that.

I was a ltd company contractor at the time. 

My  contract ended because of covid around March 2020.

I kept my self assessment account going for a while as i was claiming a tiny bit of furlough through my payroll during covid,

once furlough finished i closed down my company and deregistered from self assessment, but it looks like something has went badly wrong.

I had stopped trading and could not find a job nor another contract.  

[slick132]

Please confirm, were you working as a Ltd Co on a contract and paid on PAYE by your own Co, as a Director of the Co; or were you self employed and working for someone's Ltd Co as a contractor.

Did you have an accountant representing you at all during any of this period.

[mystic_bertie]

@slick132 many thanks for your reply. I was paid as a director and i was a the only employee, i was paid a basic salary, dividends and expenses. I did have an accountant but i stop using them when i stopped trading.

[slick132]

Ok, I assume you you received no income as earnings and/or dividends beyond 2020/21 (ie. nothing after 5th April 2021) but please confirm.

Also, you need to be sure there were no other circumstances or income that meant you had to file a SA return for 2021/22. This links you to HMRC's SA Tax Return checker - https://www.gov.uk/check-if-you-need-tax-return/y

Use this checker and confirm the result.

Then we can consider lodging an appeal against the late filing penalties.

 

[cjcregg]

On 14/11/2023 at 23:20, mystic_bertie said:

 

I cant remember when i deregistered exactly. It now makes me wonder if i missed something or did not do it properly. It makes you question everything. Is them failing to deregister people a common thing?

 

There is a process for deregistering, you can't just do it yourself. It involves completing an application for removal from self assessment which they consider and respond to usually within 14 days.

[mystic_bertie]

@slick132 many thanks for your reply. I checked back in my files and my last invoice when i was trading was 08/04/20. I was able to claim some furlough money through paye and my last payroll payment was 31/01/21, so there was further earnings but it was through paye, it shows this on the gov gateway account under paye details. Also i did not have any other taxable earnings  

 

@cjcregg many thanks for your reply. Im wondering if they rejected my application for some reason. I don't have any proof that i did fill this out though.  

Edited November 24, 2023 by mystic_bertie

[slick132]

Re cjcregg's remarks, the deregistering application should be considered and replied to but I understand that HMRC have failed badly over recent years in terms of replying on time, or indeed at all.

To appeal the penalties for failure to file tax returns, I suggest you send the following by letter to HMRC :-

HMRC - Pay As You Earn and Self Assessment
HM Revenue and Customs
BX9 1AS

My UTR: xxxxxxxxxx

Dear sir or madam,

Due to being unable to access my HMRC SA account, I have only just become aware of penalties applied to my account for failure to file SA tax returns.

As far as I was aware, I applied to stop filing SA returns after my main source of income stopped due to Covid19 during 2020/21. I've sent HMRC a SAR to get more information about this as it's causing me a great deal of stress.

Meanwhile, please accept this letter as my formal appeal against the late filing penalties and interest until I'm able to find out exactly what's happened.

Yours faithfully,

Xxxxxxxx
 

 

[mystic_bertie]

@slick132 Good afternoon and thanks for your great reply. Regarding deregistration its good to know im not the only one who has had these problems, its one of those things i had done and then forgot about it, thinking i had done everything i needed to. 

Many thanks for compiling this letter for me i cant thank you enough  I will get it printed and posted tomorrow and get free proof of postage. Do you think its worth mentioning that they had locked me out of my account for years due to verification failures. Its only now that i was able to gain access to my account.  

[slick132]

Hi MB,

I mentioned inability to access in the first 10 words of my suggested draft but, if you want to elaborate, feel free to do so.

Maybe post your own draft letter here first so we can check it.

[cjcregg]

On 25/11/2023 at 18:44, slick132 said:

 

Due to being unable to access my HMRC SA account, I have only just become aware of penalties applied to my account for failure to file SA tax returns.

 

 

As mentioned previously in this thread (and somehow ignored), HMRC mail fines & payment demands in addition to making them available on your account. Blaming access to the account isn't going to work.