Group Nexus ANPR PCN - Appeal refused - APP PAID but wrong reg? - New Square, West Bromwich

[tony_baduk]

1 Date of the infringement 17/12/2022

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 28/12/2022
 

[scan up BOTH SIDES as ONE PDF- follow the upload guide] please LEAVE IN LOCATION AND ALL DATES/TIMES/£'s  I WILL UPLOAD THIS AFTERNOON

 

3 Date received 10/01/2023
 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] No it doesn't appear like it. 
 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Yes
 

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] Yes
 

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up Yes
 

7 Who is the parking company? Group Nexus

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] New Square, West Bromwich
 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under.

Yes BPA
 

 

Summary

I used the above car park and paid for my parking for one hour, 80p. I have a bank statement proving the date and time. 

 

I appealed to POPLA and they also advised I broke the terms and conditions. 

 

Nexus initial response:

 

The Charge was issued and the signage is displayed in compliance with The British Parking Association’s Approved Operator Scheme Code of Practice and all relevant laws and regulations. While a parking fee was paid, we have been unable to locate a payment made for this vehicle registration or similar preventing a valid permit from being generated for this vehicle. We therefore believe a major keying error was made when your vehicle registration was entered. In light of this, on this occasion, your representations have been carefully considered and rejected.
               
In accordance with paragraph 17.4 of the BPA Code of Practice, which states that “It is appreciated that in issuing a PCN in these instances, the operator will have incurred charges including but not limited to the DVLA fee and other processing costs therefore we believe that it is reasonable to seek to recover some of these costs by making a modest charge to the motorist of no more than £20 for a 14-day period from when the keying error was identified”,

 

on this occasion only we will accept the reduced amount of £20 in full settlement of this Charge to cover our costs in correctly issuing this Charge and we will hold the charge at this rate for 14 days from the date of this correspondence, after which the Charge will revert to the full amount.

 

 

POPLA verdict

 

When assessing an appeal POPLA considers if the operator has issued the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) correctly and if the driver has complied with the terms and conditions for the use of the car park.

 

The operator has provided photographs of the signage, which it has installed around the car park.

 

These signs show the following terms and conditions:

“Up to 1 Hours £0.80… If you park you agree to pay a Parking Charge Notice of £70 which may be issued if the following conditions are not observed: All customers must pay for parking”.

 

The operator has issued a Parking Charge Notice (PCN) as the driver exceeded the maximum allowed stay and did not purchase additional parking.

The Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR) images the operator has provided show that the vehicle entered the car park on 17 December 2022 at 16:26 and left at 17:28. A total stay of one hour and two minutes.

 

The operator has also provided a copy of a system printout, which shows if the vehicle was registered at that car park on the day in question, along with any payments made. The printout shows that the vehicle was not registered with a payment. I can also see that other payments were made at the site on the date in question. Based on this evidence the operator considers that a valid contract was formed.

 

I will now consider if the appellants grounds of appeal impact upon this.

 

The appellant advises that they paid for their parking and this payment is shown on their bank statement. I acknowledge that a payment was made but this payment is only valid if the drivers full and correct vehicle registration was entered. They explain that the operator has stated that it has been unable to locate the payment and has treated the case as a keying error.

 

In cases where there is evidence that a payment was made but there has been an error with the vehicle registration the operator must offer a discount inline with the requirements of Section 17 of the British Parking Association code of practice. The operator has offered this discount and as such has complied with these requirements.

 

They believe that CCTV from the site would verify their explanation.

There is no evidence that the parking operator has CCTV on this car park as it used ANPR cameras to manage this car park.

They feel that under the circumstances that PCN is unfair.

 

The signs warn drivers that if they do not pay for parking they will receive a PCN. The driver failed to enter their registration and was offered a discount as such I cannot consider that the PCN is unfair.

 

The appellant has provided a copy of a bank statement to support their appeal. This evidence is why the appellant has been offered a discount. By parking on site without a valid payment made against the drivers full and correct vehicle registration the driver has breached the terms and conditions for the use of the site. POPLA’s role is to assess if the operator has issued the PCN in accordance with the conditions of the contract.

 

As the terms and conditions of the car park have not been met, I conclude that the operator has issued the PCN correctly, the appeal is refused.

 

Where we stand now

 

Nexus have now confirmed the £20 goodwill no longer is available so instead I have to pay £100. I have emailed my local MP but don't know if there is anything else I should do.

 

[FTMDave]

Thanks for filling in the forum sticky immediately - we wish everyone would do that!

 

So are you fairly sure you inputted the wrong registration number?

[tony_baduk]

 I'm pretty sure I typed my registration correctly and chose my car. 

 

The keying error is what the operator are now implying. 

[FTMDave]

It's probably the fault of their rubbish equipment they buy for 99p second hand on eBay.

 

However even if it was your fault, in seven years on this site I've seen the PPCs take someone to court exactly once in a wrong reg case because they know they are on a hiding to nothing.  Legally the matter is "de minimis" (AKA "the law does not deal with trivialities") because they were paid and you can prove it.  

[tony_baduk]

What will happen if I decide not to pay the £100.

I just need to understand what I should prepare for? 

 

I'm guessing they will pass the charge on to the debt collectors?

How much including court fees, can the charge go upto *if" I were to lose (can't see how)?

 

[Nicky Boy]

Well, the whole thing looks fishy to me.

 

Fleecers initial appeal rejection say no payment was made / keying error.

 

Then during POPLA appeal they claimed it was an overstay.

 

Interested to see what the original PCN says when it's posted up later.

 

Also tony_baduk, did you "out" yourself as being the driver during the appeal process?

Or, were you savvy enough to be vague?

[tony_baduk]

Here is the original penalty charge / invoice. Then reduced to £20. Now as I've lost my POP:A appeal, the charge is £100 to pay.

 

 

 

 

pcn001.pdf

[FTMDave]

2 minutes ago, tony_baduk said:

What will happen if I decide not to pay the £100.

Their bezzies in their trade association - but not the actual law - allow them to pretend there is an increase to £170.

 

If after that by some horror you were the first person on CAG to be taken to court in such cases and actually lose, you'd end up paying around £250.

[Nicky Boy]

The fleecers will send a raft of letters adding all sorts of ficticious charges and threatening to take your first born.

 

You should really educate yourself with how these rogues operate.

Read up some other threads to know what the sequence of events is like.

 

See the "successes" thread.

Read the most recent first.

 

Sorry cross posted with Dave...

 

Edited May 17, 2023 by Nicky Boy

[tony_baduk]

I've now uploaded the PCN.

 

I think I have mentioned somewhere I was the driver.

I didn't feel I had to hide this when genuinely I've paid and got proof of payment. 

 

[Nicky Boy]

Totally laughable PCN...

The reason for the PCN is EITHER you didn't pay, OR you exceeded the "maximum stay time" without paying extra..

 

Sooo, which is it? They're not really sure, are they?

 

Also, I would consider a "maximum stay time" to be what it says.

You shouldn't even be able to pay to exceed it, because you're not allowed to be there.

 

Pathetic.

 

As you read other threads, (you are, aren't you)? You'll see the fleecers have to jump through numerous hoops to have any chance of making their invoice stick.

 

I'm sure lookinforinfo will make comments on their useless PCN later.

[tony_baduk]

 

Thank you @Nicky Boy for all your responses so far, very helpful. 

 

The bottom line is I paid for the parking. I paid for 1 hour parking which was 80p, I then left within the grace period.

 

I am reading the other threads mentioned above.

 

In the meantime, is there anything else I need to do? Write a letter to them or anything else? 

[Nicky Boy]

As per the other threads you're reading, ignore everything until/unless you get a letter of claim / letter before action.

 

If you're unsure about any letter, just post it up here for advice.

[tony_baduk]

Payment proof below. It cleared my bank account on the Monday 19/12/22 (parking was on Saturday 17/12/22).

 

They've taken my money but the following questions need answering from Group Nexus:

• I have used their payment machine to pay - the transaction should show which car this payment was registered against?
• Why are they raising this PCN when a payment was made for the correct duration and exited within the grace period?
• They cannot argue that I have tried to drive off without paying

payment001.pdf

[dx100uk]

1. well obv the wrong reg. the PCN is issued automatically as the ANPR reg does not match a reg against any payment. they wont check nor care.

2.as above.

3. they are. but its all automated.

 

stop worrying just dont move in 6yrs without telling them nor ignore a letter of claim.

 

there are no lost wrong reg cases here even if they do do court sometime. just keep everything safe and backed up too.

[brassnecked]

They would be silly to escalate this to court, you paid they had no loss as FTMDave says legally its de minimis, a trifle will be more strident letters threatening eveything from the plagues of Egypt to a CCJ, whuich they can't get without taking you to court, so as others say ignore until a letter of claim, but save your payment evidence safely as they have 6 years to actually issue a claim, have neen some claims from fleecers for invoices 3 or 4 years  since the alleged incident.

[lookinforinfo]

Nicky Boy is right their PCN is a  total  mess. The PCN does not comply with the requirements of the protection of Freedoms Act 2012 mainly because they only have 14 days to inform you of your alleged breach of their contract . Very difficult when two Bank holidays and two weekends encroach on that time.

 

Not only is it not compliant it may also be unlawful since it mentions that an unspecified debt collection charge will be included if payment is not made within 28 days. There is nothing in the Act that allows a debt collection charge . It does say that all that can be charged is the amount stated on the sign age and the PCN. Furthermore in the oft quoted Parking Eye V Beavis that all the rogues think is their life saver

it says that £100 is enough to cover all their expenditure.. Plus it also says that the penalty charge was invoked but dismissed because of

having a legitimate interest in this case. But other cases should be judged on their circumstances.

 

By the sound of it in your appeal you inadvertently revealed who was driving. That was a pity since the non compliance with the Act means that it is not possible to transfer the charge from the driver to the keeper. So as they would not know who was driving it makes it difficult for them to win in Court since Judges do not accept that the driver and keeper are the same person.

 

In your case this time that is not such a great deal since you paid and a two minute over stay is small potatoes and has no chance of the rogues winning on that score. As they offered the £20 reduction it would seem that they have agreed that you did pay and they have worked out that your vrm does match with one on their list. So it seems hard to justify why they think they can then increase it to £100+. 

 

All you can do is now sit it out and ignore all their demand and threats until they either give up or take you to Court.It is unlikely that they will risk the wrath of a Judge for bringing such a poor case. However they will do their damndest to force you into paying their non existent demand. You will receive endless final letters from debt collectors and solicitors telling you they will take you to court without actually doing it. Just ignore all their rubbish hat they send unless it says it is a Letter before Claim. If you get one of those come back here and we will guide you on your next step.

 

[tony_baduk]

Thanks for your help on this @lookinforinfo

 

I didn't actually overstay, I paid within the one hour time and left within the grace period, the exit time shows the time I left, which was after the one hour I had paid for. 

 

I will sit tight but I really want to know why this is seen as a "major" keying error, is it possible to request a SAR (subject access request) and ask what car my actually paid the parking for?

 

And btw, not sure if this makes any difference, it's a lease car, the owner is the lease company. I am the registered keeper.

 

I did however admit I was the driver of this vehicle at the time. 

[dx100uk]

as you are the RK that makes no odds

 

shame you admitted you were driving as well.

 

you lose your legal protection under POFA2012 then.

 

next time never ever appeal!! a speculative invoice.

[tony_baduk]

Nexus have responded further to me after I sent an email to them: 

 

Quote

 

Please refer to our previous correspondence which is our final stance on this matter.

 

The Charge was not issued invoking the provisions of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.

 

We are sorry but we cannot enter into any further correspondence regarding this matter.

 

 

[FTMDave]

Why are you contacting the very charlatans who are trying to fleece you?  The only result will be to encourage them to pursue you.

 

And why are you e-mailing them?  If by come horror this does come to court they can now send documents at one minute before the court deadline full of lies which you will have no way to counter.

 

Corresponding with them has achieved nothing plus you've outed yourself as the driver and thrown away your protection under POFA 2012.

 

That is why three of the regulars with vast experience in fighting these bloodsuckers wrote -

 

On 17/05/2023 at 15:45, dx100uk said:

stop worrying just dont move in 6yrs without telling them nor ignore a letter of claim.

 

there are no lost wrong reg cases here even if they do do court sometime. just keep everything safe and backed up too.

 

On 17/05/2023 at 17:45, brassnecked said:

ignore until a letter of claim, but save your payment evidence safely as they have 6 years to actually issue a claim, have neen some claims from fleecers for invoices 3 or 4 years  since the alleged incident.

 

On 18/05/2023 at 16:45, lookinforinfo said:

Just ignore all their rubbish hat they send unless it says it is a Letter before Claim. If you get one of those come back here and we will guide you on your next step.

The best thing you can do is to read similar threads so you are aware of the games they play and are ready for what will happen next.

[tony_baduk]

Thanks @FTMDave - I will not respond to them any further. 

[brassnecked]

You send them one more email telling them you are not acccepting any emails  or legal correspondence from them from now on, back it up by sending a letter and get free proof of posting from the Post Office.