ESP ANPR PCN Claimform - Crossgate Church/Landmark St Marys Street North Preston PR1 5LG,

[Speedjawa]

I regularly park (Legally) in a small, private car park that was recently taken over by ES Parking.

 

I noticed that when they erected the signs they were very high, probably 9 to 10 feet on the outer walls of the building. There are no signs at the entrance. Signs are only visible once a vehicle has entered the car park. When I saw the signs being erected, I noticed that at the height they were set above eye level, they could not be easily read from the footpath.

 

I am a highly qualified graphic artist and typographer with over 40 years experience. Please see the attached photograph. (sorry, this platform won't allow jpegs, how odd! See my profile picture) Anyone with a physical impairment, such as arthritis or similar or a wheelchair user would struggle to read these signs.

 

I presume that if these signs are judged to be inadequate or not fit for purpose, then anyone who has paid a penalty would be entitled to their money back? What think you?

[honeybee13]

Hello, welcome to CAG.

 

Your picture doesn't seem to have made it onto the thread, unfortunately.

 

Regarding your comment on jpegs, we stopped using them because our users' information was less secure than it is in a pdf.

 

Best, HB

[FTMDave]

Your conclusions about the fleecers' signs is spot on.  This is typical of these charlatans.  Take over a car park, put a small number of signs where no-one will see them, and so catch regular users out.  The government Code of Practice states that extra signs should be put up to show a change of management of the car park.  Of course they'll have done none of this.

 

5 minutes ago, Speedjawa said:

anyone who has paid a penalty would be entitled to their money back? What think you?

In what sense entitled?  The spivs certainly won't give money back.  Anyone in that position could sue the fleecers, but a judge would want to know why they paid if they didn't think they owed the money.

 

The solution with these vile companies is always the same - don't pay them.

 

[Speedjawa]

The picture is my profile picture. I'm new to this forum, it's taken ages to work out how to reply!

[honeybee13]

If you could also work out how to attach an image to a post on this thread, we could have a look at the sign. For me, it's covered up by boxes like the Message one.

 

HB

[Speedjawa]

I can do that. Look for it later.

 

The attached PDF file shows the height of the ES Parking signs and how difficult they are to read safely from the footpath. I hope this helps.

door.pdf

[BankFodder]

It seems to me that if we can find a disabled person who had difficulty with this then we could help them to bring an action under the equality Act .

 

That would set the cat amongst the pigeons

[Nicky Boy]

So, are you expecting a ticket Speedjawa?

 

And are there ANPR cameras at the entrance?

Edited April 27, 2023 by Nicky Boy

[Speedjawa]

I got one!

Even though I had my legal permit displayed in the front of my car.

It was flat on the dashboard but the camera angle couldn't see it.

 

Obviously the camera operator could, but that don't make any dosh!

 

I have full proof of payment through both my bank records and the records and accounts held by the church that own the land.

 

They have started court proceedings so any help and advice would be gladly accepted.

It is getting me down a bit.

 

I'm trying to get over a stage 3 cancer, a heart bypass caused by chemo and this morning I got the news that I may need another bypass op.

 

As you can see, the last thing I need is ES Parking.

[Nicky Boy]

Sorry to hear of your personal problems.

Could you follow the instructions on both stickies below and the guys will advise...

 

 

 

 

Edited April 27, 2023 by Nicky Boy

[Nicky Boy]

BTW,

Who do / did you ride for?

Used to watch Hull Vikings MANY years ago.

[Speedjawa]

Which Court have you received the claim from ? COUNTY COURT BUSINESS CENTRE 7372

 

 

Name of the Claimant : ES PARKING ENFORCEMENT LTD

 

Claimants Solicitors: FRANCES BENNETT

 

Date of issue – 13/04/2023

 

Date for AOS - 01/05/23

 

Date to submit Defence - 15/05/23

 

What is the claim for – 

 

1. The driver of the vehicle with registration (the Vehicle') parked in breach of the terms of parking stipulated on the signage (the 'Contract') at Crossgate Church/Landmark St Marys Street North Preston PR1 5LG, on 21 /10/2022 thus incurring the
parking charge (the 'PCN').

 

2. The PCN was not paid within 28 days of Issue.

 

3. The Claimant claims the unpaid PCN from the Defendant as the driver/keeper of the Vehicle.

 

4.Despite demands being made, the Defendant has failed to settle their outstanding liability.

 

THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS
£100 for the PCN,

£70.00 contractual costs pursuant to the Contract and PCN terms and conditions,

together with statutory interest of £6.25 pursuant to s69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at 10.25% per annum, continuing at
£0.05 per day.
 

What is the value of the claim?

 

 

Amount Claimed £176.25

court fees £35

legal rep fees £50

Total Amount £261.25

 

Have you moved since the issuance of the PCN? (y/N - if Y state Date too)  N

 

I got one!

Even though I had my legal permit displayed in the front of my car.

It was flat on the dashboard but the camera angle couldn't see it.

 

Obviously the camera operator could, but that don't make any dosh! I have full proof of payment through both my bank records and the records and accounts held by the church that own the land.

 

They have started court proceedings so any help and advice would be gladly accepted. It is getting me down a bit.

 

I'm trying to get over a stage 3 cancer, a heart bypass caused by chemo and this morning I got the news that I may need another bypass op. As you can see, the last thing I need is ES Parking.

 

[FTMDave]

Have you already done Acknowledgement of Service?

[Speedjawa]

I have been a Belle Vue Aces fan all my life. I rode a Hagon JAP in grasstrack racing in the 70's.

 

I must admit - I'm struggling with the way this site works. Do you need anything else other than the attached PDF?

 

 

Just about to post off the 2 PDF pages that I sent to Nicky Boy. These were emailed to me by the court. As you can see, I don't want a counterclaim. I was parked legally and should not have to pay a penalty to these criminals.

 

Filed out defence on my N9 form.

 

Legally parked, permit displayed at Crossgate Church, Landmark, St Mary's Street North, Preston PR1 5LG.
As I work at HMP Preston, I have used the car park for quite a few years and always pay in advance to park there. I think
the price of £3.00 per day to park in a ctly is very fair. plus the church benefit.

'then I received the penalty notice I thought it may have been a scam. I was fully paid up so why would I gel a penalty
notice? The fine was £100. An extremely inflated figure.

 

My permit was on view on the dashboard, forward of the steering column and could be seen clearly by anyone approaching my vehicle either from the front, or especially from the offside.

From the day I received my permit It was rarely put on the windscreen. The first permits issued were quite large and so
obscured the HUD projector. Worst of all, I would forget it was there, drive off and at the first right turn the permit would
slide across the dash and get lost. This happened too many limes.

 

In 2020 I was diagnosed with Oesophageal cancer. This led to a 9 hour operation 10 remove a large tumor. A few months later in 2021 . It was discovered chemotherapy had caused blocked arteries and so in 2022 I had open heart surgery. I am still in recovery until 2025 when, hopefully. I'll be given the all clear. Although I was declared fit to drive t wasn't in any fit state to go hunting amongst the upholstery searching for a parking permit!

 

This is why my permit was on the dashboard in a perfectly visible position from outside and which I couldn't miss when I got into my vehicle. The low camera angle used in the claimant's photographs fail to show what was perfectly visible closer to the vehicle and from a slightly higher viewpoint. 

it is very upsetting that I would often see the Parking attendant when he did his afternoon patrol of the car park.. He knew
me and knew which was my car and so must have seen my permit many times over the previous weeks. I find it extremely
annoying that calculated slight of hand with a camera has put me in the position of having to defend myself when I have
done nothing wrong.

The stress this is causing is incalculable. Since my illness I now work only two and a half days per week with retirement
imminent and can't afford to pay fines - that's why I pay in advance to park.

If you want to see proof of my payments to Crossgate Church, please contact Gill Wright. at the Church. She too could not
understand why I had been issued with a parking fine.

 

[Nicky Boy]

Hold off on posting just now.

 

There's a standard bland defence we recommend using.

 

Also, It's usually easier to use the MCOL online portal for the process.

 

DX will probably chime in with his instructions...

Edited April 27, 2023 by Nicky Boy

[lookinforinfo]

I am so sorry to hear of the problems you are having with your health. I wish you a speedy recovery.

 

If you are sure that the permit was on the dashboard on that day you have a very good chance of getting them for breaching your GDPR. That will cost them a lot more than the unlawful claim against you.

 

Is is possible that you could please post up the original PCN front and back since there are often mistakes made by the parking rogues that are sufficient to make it difficult for them to win . 

 

 

[Speedjawa]

What is MCOL?

I don't have the original PCN.

However, I think it would be illegal for them not to let me have a copy of the original form if it got to the court stage.

 

GDPR was something I thought of.

I work for a college, inside a prison.

 

GDPR is a nightmare as we deal with prisoners.

I have often thought it wrong that private information such as names and addresses should be given to companies like ES Parking.

 

I would like to know how they store this information. I'm told the consequences are dire if a company makes a GDPR mistake.

 

My parking permit lives in my car and is, in fact, viewable at all times, even if it's not in the window.

 

When I park it sits on the dashboard.

 

These original tickets were large so couldn't be slotted into the screen like the new "Tax Disc" size permits.

 

The problem is that these people want the money  - if the camera can't see it - it isn't there.

 

Which, as we are all aware is oh deary me!!

[dx100uk]

right i see you've done everything and filed a defence too.

 

shame you called them fines and penalty charges, they are NOT and never can be.

 

have you sent a CPR 31.14 to the claimants solicitor?

 

 

[Nicky Boy]

DX,

Not sure a defence has been submitted yet,

Speed said he was about to mail it in post 14, but I asked him to hold back for advice.

 

The two uploads POC and Defence have also disappeared from post 14...

 

One of which Speed has added again above.

Edited April 27, 2023 by Nicky Boy

[dx100uk]

dont need you to keep posting up PDF files that are unredacted ...dont need them for now stop doing it.

 

ive done the particulars of claim for you and put up the defence you file too.

 

can i just clarify you have  NOT posted that defence off yet??

 

dx

 

 

[Nicky Boy]

Too much cross posting.

Just stepping down for a while..

[dx100uk]

we'll get there...

 

dx

[Speedjawa]

I have not posted anything, nor have I emailed anything. I have done everything I've been asked to do but posted nothing.

[dx100uk]

brilliant well done.

 

dont file that defence, you dont give away anything....

ok you are stable now, you've done nothing wrong to date we've saved you from a silly mistake ot two..no panic no more

 

follow this please:

pop up on the MCOL website detailed on the claimform

.

register as an individual on the Gov't Gateway Site
Go to HMRC's login page.

Click the GREEN sign in button.
Click “Create sign in details”
Enter your email address where asked.
You will now be emailed a confirmation code. ...

You will now be issued with a User ID for your government gateway account.
 note down your details inc the long gateway number given, you might need it later.
 

then log in to the MCOL Website

.

select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box.

.

then using the details required from the claimform

.

defend all

leave jurisdiction unticked.

click thru to the end

confirm and exit MCOL.

.

get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?486334-CPR-31.14-Request-to-use-on-receipt-of-a-PPC-(-Private-Land-Parking-Court-Claim

type your name ONLY

no need to sign anything

.

you DO NOT await the return of paperwork.

you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform.

………….
 

[Speedjawa]

 

 

I got to the claim form but find I need to enter the claim number and password to continue. Where do I get a password?

 

When I went on to the MCOL website I was not asked to create a password yet I need a password to progress further.