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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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UKCP/CGTT (ZZPS)/QDR ANPR PCN PAPLOC Now Claimform - Junction Street Retail park. leeds


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Hi all, 

Not sure there is much I can do here but worth asking! 

My son went into Leeds to collect his girlfriend, but as he was early, and not being familiar with the new road layout in Leeds he pulled into Crown Point retail park. 

The notice shows he arrived at 23:08 and left at 23:30 and states the vehicle was present on site during the restricted no parking period. 

He says it was dark and never saw any signs saying he couldn't park there. 

Is that grounds for an appeal?  Is it even worth appealing for the sake of £60?  

The notice states the POFA 2012 if that helps? 

Thanks in advance for any guidance! 

Well 6 years on and most of the defaults have disappeared, thank you CAG for a

ll your help

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please complete this:

 

 

dx

 

 

YOU DO NOT EVER APPEAL A SPECULATIVE INVOICE

 

moved to the private parking forum.

 

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • dx100uk changed the title to UKCP ANPR PCN - Crown Point retail park. leeds

Thanks - lets try again! 

 

For PCN's received through the post [ANPR camera capture]

(must be received within 14 days from the Incident)

 

Please answer the following questions.

 

1 Date of the infringement 6th January 23

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 11th January 23
 

[scan up BOTH SIDES as ONE PDF- follow the upload guide] please LEAVE IN LOCATION AND ALL DATES/TIMES/£'s

 

3 Date received 13th January 23
 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] YES
 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Very dark, but yes
 

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] NO
 

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up n/a
 

7 Who is the parking company? UKPC

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town]Crown Point Retail Park, Leeds
 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under.

BPA

Fully redacted PCN.pdf

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Thanks.

 

As girlfriend presumably lives in Leeds, could she go there in the evening and photograph the signs?

 

One of the tactics of these disgusting companies is to not illuminate signs at night, so of course drivers can't see them and get caught out.

 

If no-one can see the damn signs it will massively undermine the fleecers' case.

 

 

We could do with some help from you.

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19 hours ago, Bazooka Boo said:

UKPC ''manage'' the car park..

 

https://www.crownpoint-shopping.co.uk/parking/

And whoever runs the shopping centre reckons UKPC issue "fines" 🙄

We could do with some help from you.

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thread tidied

  • Like 1

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thank FTMDave,  Unfortunately she doesn't live in the city.   He was collecting her from the coach station, but her coach was delayed, hence he had to stay local but didn't know where to park, and an empty retail park seemed like a good idea.  Apparently not!! 

I might go in tonight actually and take some photo's, that's a good idea.  

Well 6 years on and most of the defaults have disappeared, thank you CAG for a

ll your help

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Hi all, took a trip down to Crown Point at the weekend - was possibly a bit early as the shops were closed but it was still lit up.   The area in question did have a sign but unless you got out and read the small print with a magnifying glass it was easy to miss. 

 

No excuse I know, but what should I do - any suggestions?  My lads girlfriend has offered to pay it, but I don't like feeding these vipers!! 

Cheers

Well 6 years on and most of the defaults have disappeared, thank you CAG for a

ll your help

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wont ever be paying, what makes you think that?

 

until/unless you ever get a letter of claim you ignore everyone.

 

do a good bit of reading up here in this same forum, then you'll be better informed.

 

dx

 

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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bradfordlad,

 

here's a google streetview... On reading the large text at the top of the sign, what would a normal driver assume?

No mention of hourly rates for parking... no pay/display terminals around the site.

It all points to one thing... 3 hours free parking.

 

WWW.GOOGLE.CO.UK

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

 

There are other signs around the site exactly the same.

There are other signs with different wording... Faced with a choice, the driver can choose whichever signs they want.

 

And as DX said, read some other threads.

You'll be surprised at what the fleecers have to get right to make their parking charge notices stick.

 

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

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Thanks guys, 

I took a photo but it was a bit blurry due to me not stopping!   You're right though Nicky Boy, the sign in question clearly says "3 hours Maximum Stay Only" but google streeview isn't updated yet so that's no help. 

Ok - hold the line and do some reading. Cheers! 

Well 6 years on and most of the defaults have disappeared, thank you CAG for a

ll your help

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That is great work by Nicky Boy.

 

No-one can be expected to read conditions in the tiniest of tiny print, especially at night.

 

I changed coaches myself in Leeds twice in August during a return Nottingham > Leeds, Leeds > Sunderland trip.  I know the coach station is in the centre and it must be damn difficult to find somewhere to park.

We could do with some help from you.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hi all, 

 

Little update - I've had the 2nd letter from UKPC telling me the early payment discount has expired and they now want £100 - ignored that. 

 

Last week I received a letter from ZZPS Limited - scan attached.   I will ignore again, but any more guidance appreciated. 

 

I've also attached photo's of the carpark in question - the first only references "3 hours free parking", but the other does show "no parking out of hours" if you get out of your car and up close!  I took a close up and a "parked car view" of each sign.

ZZPS letter.pdf car park signs.pdf

Well 6 years on and most of the defaults have disappeared, thank you CAG for a

ll your help

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Yes, ignore ZZPS, they are an uninterested third party and have less power that the mandarin orange peel I've just chucked in the bin.

 

Great work with the photos.

 

So the entrance sign just says 3 hours maximum which your son respected.

 

 

We could do with some help from you.

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Yep, exactly right.  I almost paid the charge last week as I can't be doing with the stress, but posting today has made me more determined to play them at their own game! 

Well 6 years on and most of the defaults have disappeared, thank you CAG for a

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Plus, as they say the T&Cs are in the car park, by the time you read them you're already "offending".

 

Don't pay them a penny, they are highly unlikely to do court and if they did the rubbish signage would see the judge give them a kicking.

  • Like 1

We could do with some help from you.

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Another argument is that unlike Parking Eye V Beavis where the Judges accepted that Parking Eye had a legitimate interest in the car park to keep the park clear  of overstayers that may have prevented potential shoppers from parking. Here there is no legitimate interest as the car park is empty.So the argument that a £100 charge is not a penalty falls flat.

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That's a brilliant point LFI.

 

I've noted it down for use in all similar future cases.

We could do with some help from you.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Afternoon all

 

Small update - received a lovely letter from GCTT Certificated Enforcement Agents, titled:  "WARNING BEFORE THE CASE IS TRANSFERRED TO SOLICITORS" blah blah blah  please pay up....

 

As per usual - ignore?! 

Well 6 years on and most of the defaults have disappeared, thank you CAG for a

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interesting UKPC have conned this lot into being involved

as ofcoyrse you know bailiffs can nEVER be involved unless you LOSE any court claim or fail to pay it within 1 month.

 

seems like UKPC are tryin the same scam as DCBL do.

 

scan it up please.

 

but yes totally powerless as this is their DCA wing i expect

 

1st time ive heard of 'em.

times must be hard for them

 

GCTT.CO.UK

Welcome to GCTT Certificated Enforcement Agents

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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