OPS/DCB(L) 2xPCN's PAPLOC Now claimform - Machine said Not In Use - Llangrannog (Beach) car park, West Wales *** Claim Dismissed***

[ghedgehog]

I have now received a reply to my CPR 31-14 letter from OPS's solicitors, the cover page of which is attached.

 

They have sent a large pack including the PCNs, Final Demands and photos of signage.

 

They have also sent a copy of the contract between OPS and the landowner.

Should I upload this too?

 

They haven't sent proof of planning permission, so I presume this is what they consider to be "disproportionate and/or not relevant"

 

DCB Legal 01.pdf

[FTMDave]

We've already seen the PCNs, but the contract would be great to see, as would the signs.

 

20 minutes ago, ghedgehog said:

They haven't sent proof of planning permission, so I presume this is what they consider to be "disproportionate and/or not relevant"

No, it means it doesn't exist!

[Peter Parker 2]

The planning consent for the cameras and ticket machine can be found on the Ceredigion Council website.

 

Type in the postcode SA44 6SL. The application number is A191011.

Here is a link:

 

Ceredigion | Council Direct | Application | 57825

CEREDIGION-ONLINE.TASCOMI.COM

The signs do not need planning permission as they are below the minimum size. They are 0.46m x 0.46m, ie 0.21 sq m. Planning permission is only needed for signs over 0.3 sq m.

 

The contract between OPS and Anthony Ramsey Williams is also on the Lllangrannog Welfare Committee website 

 

http://llangrannogwelfare.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/Llangrannog-Redacted-Contract.pdf

 

I hope this helps.

 

 

Here is a letter from the Minister for Levelling Up to the Pembrokeshire MP Stephen Crabb

about the Parking Code of Practice.  
 

http://llangrannogwelfare.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/dept-for-levelling-re-code.pdf

[Nicky Boy]

Crikey! There were a lot of objections to the planning application...

[FTMDave]

Thanks for this @Peter Parker 2I was wrong, the PPC do have planning permission in this case.

[Peter Parker 2]

It's the landowner's camera and ticket machine. He (ARW) has got planning consent, but OPS haven't. Power for the camera and the machine come from his pub, The Ship Inn. 

[brassnecked]

Seems a bit dodgy, so OPS do the ticketing but the Landlord of pub is actually in control, or has he demised said control  to OPS to chase on their own behalf?

[ghedgehog]

Ok, thanks Peter, for pointing out that the contract between OPS and the landowner is up on the Llangrannog Welfare Committee website. I'll save myself the bother of uploading it then. The print is very small, so I think by the time I'd photographed it and converted it to PDF, it might not even have been legible.

 

Interesting bits of it are §10(c):

 

"OPS operate one service: HIGH STANDARD SERVICE

        i) OPS will do their upmost (sic) to insure (sic) the customer gets a swift, professional service"

 

and §18(a):

 

"OPS agree that they will ... Provide the system for the parking ticket operations"

 

Poor English aside, I don't think they've complied with either of those clauses

 

[Peter Parker 2]

The landowner uses OPS to issue tickets and chase motorists for payment, but if you look at the contract you will see that he gets 100% of the PCN revenue-

 

9 d) All PCN proceeds collected by OPS in payment of PCNs shall be submitted directly to the Customer's bank account and the Customer shall be provided with a reconciliation detailing payments received. 

[dx100uk]

3 hours ago, ghedgehog said:

I'll save myself the bother of uploading it then. The print is very small, so I think by the time I'd photographed it and converted it to PDF, it might not even have been legible.

just copy the PDF here...

 

2 hours ago, Peter Parker 2 said:

The landowner uses OPS to issue tickets and chase motorists for payment, but if you look at the contract you will see that he gets 100% of the PCN revenue-

because there is no annual monetary renewal terms, its a contract that never ends until either party cancels the contract

 

10 hours ago, Peter Parker 2 said:

Power for the camera and the machine come from his pub, The Ship Inn. 

urm i wonder if this is done properly under all the required regulations... 

 

Llangrannog-Redacted-Contract.pdf

[Peter Parker 2]

Normally the parking operator keeps the PCN revenue but doesn't charge the landowner. 

[ghedgehog]

I have had an email from OPS's solicitors saying their client is intending to proceed with the claim. It has a Directions Questionnaire attached, which I haven't opened.

 

They write "In due course, the Court will direct both parties to each file a directions questionnaire", so I'm assuming I just wait for that in the post?

 

Another question though, as the defendant, am I not entitled to have the claim heard at my nearest County Court?

[dx100uk]

Dunno what happened to the thread but I've had to copy it to allow posting 

 

Post here now only 

 

Where have you been for 3 weeks?? Why have you not been reading up?? CAG is self-help too!!

 

That's a std letter they always send . Ignore

 

As for court n180 etc that's all explained in most PCN claimform threads 

 

Lastly..how did they get your email address??  We need to shut that down asap 

 

Dx

[dx100uk]

Test

[ghedgehog]

Thanks Dave, for your tip about posting from the penultimate page of the thread. Appears to be working for me.

 

I have received the Notice of Proposed Allocation to the Small Claims Track and the Directions Questionnaire.

 

I note that it has to be returned, and a copy sent to the claimant, by 30th December, which isn't long given the time of year and the Royal Mail strikes. It seems that I have to sign the form and so can't submit it online?

 

I think I'm clear on how to answer the questions, in particular

• I don't want the claim referred to Mediation
• I agree that the Small Claims Track is the appropriate track for this case
• I don't consider the case to be suitable for determination without a hearing

[dx100uk]

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/347310-legal-n180-directions-questionnaire-small-claims-track-correct-at-sept-2016/#comment-5088148

3 copies

yes to mediation (unless you filed our Statute Barred Defence OR this is a claim for a Private Parking Ticket)

1 wit you

Suitability for determination without a hearing? no (read all the posts in N180 link above for the reason)

the rest is obv

1 to the court

1 to sols (omit phone/sig/email)

1 for your file

 

dx

[dx100uk]

test

[dx100uk]

tried to get the thread working properly tonight but not luck.

if you need to post

go back a page here and hit the green reply to thread up the top 

[ghedgehog]

Thanks for your reply DX.

 

You have said YES to Mediation ... unless this is a Parking Ticket Claim. But it is a Parking Ticket Claim, so that will be a NO then? I can't see any point in agreeing to Mediation, unless I was prepared to pay some of the money they're now asking for, and if I was going to do that, I may as well have just paid the original penalty charge 

[dx100uk]

 read it carefully 

Don't forget that is a general info file on CAG, for many different types of court claims upon how to fill out an n180.

 

You should also be reading like threads in between the stages so you know what's to come, how to react and what then follows. 

 

But you never do anything without checking here 1st.

 

Dx

 

 

[FTMDave]

Open.

[ghedgehog]

I have now received a date for the Court Hearing, which is in September.

 

N.B. Had to go back a page again, in order to post this

[FTMDave]

Yes - me too.

[FTMDave]

Weirdly it seems that page 4 was the page of doom.  You can post on this page 5 without any problems.

[FTMDave]

I think this may interest you  https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-66398622

BTW, as your hearing is next month, time to draft a Witness Statement.