Letter from police received

[Sirbob00]

My daughter has received a signed for letter from Northumbria Police regarding a RTC in September 2020.  The letter has her as the owner/keeper/hirer of a vehicle with a registration number she has no clue about.  She’s really stressed as can’t contact anyone until Monday.

 

She does drive but not the vehicle registration it’s saying and she’s never owed a car of that registration and has never been in an accident.  Everything about the letter seems genuine.

 

Where do the police get the information from?  I’m trying to tell her it’s an error but she wondering how they got her name/address when the vehicle registration isn’t hers.

 

Thank you for any advice.

[Ethel Street]

Police information on who is Registered Keeper comes from same source as the rest of us get it from, the DVLA database. The police of course can access more information than us as we can't access the name and address of the Registered Keeper. How they got the Registration Number will depend on what happened  at the time of the RTC - did police attend? Was it provided to police by someone else involved in the accident? Seen on ANPR/CCTV? etc.

 

Is the car number quoted by the police similar enough to the real number of your daughter's car that it could simply be a typing error?

 

Does she know where she was on the date of the RTC  quoted in the letter? Was she in her own car in the area where the RTC took place? If police letter isn't specific she can at least assume RTC was in Northumbria Police area. Is that where your daughter lives/works/travels?

 

As a preliminary you can use this gov.uk site to check both your daughter's actual car and the one  the police are quoting to make sure they are recorded as completely different vehicles.  Do the deatils of the car quoted by police ring any bells with your daughter?

 

Get vehicle information from DVLA - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

 

There are many ways in which an error like this could arise so it's all speculation at the moment.  Your daughter needs to wait until Monday and call Northumbria Police. You think it's genuine but best to be cautious just in case. Safest way is that your daughter calls the published phone number of Police on their website and asks to be connected to the writer of the letter. I'm sure she should be able to sort it out.

 

Come back here after she's spoken to them and update us.

 

 

[Sirbob00]

Thank you for your reply.

 

No the registration numbers are not similar.  Her car at the time was a 56 plate orange Suzuki and this car is a 17 plate silver Renault.  The incident occurred roughly 30 miles from where we live.  She has no idea where the area is as she’s never been.  She searched back on social media and she was out drinking in Sunderland and this accident occurred in Newcastle but we have no idea of the time the incident occurred.

 

Theres no phone number on the actual letter just a PC’s name so as you suggested we’ll use the telephone number on the website.

 

She’s heard nothing of this so called incident so strange 2 years later they send a letter.

[dx100uk]

Probably someone gave fake details to another party they had a RTC with 

 

Happens quite often.

 

Dx

[Sirbob00]

So to give fake details they’d have to know my daughter.  
 

Also don’t suppose you know why they’d suddenly write to her 2 years after the incident.

 

Thank you

[unclebulgaria67]

No could just be an admin mistake with the number plate. Get one number or letter wrong and they are writing to the wrong person.

 

Your daughter just needs to contact the Police and say that a mistake has occurred, as she did not have any accident and was not in the area of the accident at the time, has never driven a car that is mentioned in the letter etc.

[Manxman in exile]

It's almost certainly one of three things:

 

1.  a straight-forward mistake such as a transposition error on the paperwork by the police, or a simple misread of the numberplate by a witness;

 

2.  the person responsible for the accident falsely gave your daughter's name and details, although (a) that might suggest someone who knew your daughter, and (b) why has it taken 2 years to get to your daughter; and 

 

3.  perhaps the vehicle involved in the accident has been falsely registered with the DVLA with your daughter as the registered keeper, but again if this were the case why has it taken two years.

 

The first is probably most likely.

 

If I were your daughter I wouldn't get stressed out about this.  As others have said she simply needs to contact the police*, state that she knows nothing whatsoever about the car in question, and that she has never had any connection with it or to any other vehicle with that reg. number.  I would also ask them why they have contacted her, as she is now concerned that she might be the victim of identity theft.  She should also ask them to double check the details they have about the alleged accident and car to ensure there hasn't been some error or other confusion on their part that has caused them to come to her when she knows nothing about it. 

 

If she's the sort of person to get easily stressed or a bit anxious, it might be helpful if you could be present when she calls just to make sure she covers everything.  You might need to make sure she gets satisfactory answers to all her questions so that isn't left up in the air not knowing where she stands.  If you can't be with her at the time then agree with her beforehand the questions to ask, get her to write them down so as not to forget them, and tell her to write down the answers.  Keep a note of the date and time and who she spoke to.  Tell her to stay calm and collected and not get flustered.  These sorts of things happeneveryday and the police won't be trying to trick her.

 

By the way, does the "letter" from the police require a formal written response?  Is it a "letter" or is it a s172 request to name the driver?  It's not clear from your post what it is.  If it's a s172 request asking her to identify who the driver was then she MUST reply to it** within the timescale.  I'd suggest that she could reply along the lines that she can't identify the driver of the vehicle at the time and place in question because she does not and never has had any connection with that car or any other car with that reg. number.  [Edit:  If true she could also add she has never been to that location.  Not sure if you are saying that or not... ]

 

If it is just a letter, she could ask them when she calls them whether it needs a written response.  (If it were me I'd probably do a written reply anyway just to be on the safe side.  Best to keep stuff like this on paper with a proper trail... )

 

* Presumably there are contact details as I suspect most people who receive a communication like this from the police would be likely to have lots of questions.

 

** If it is a s172 request a lot of people don't realise that not replying to it is a serious offence.  Mandatory 6 points, big fine, extortionate insurance premiums for 5 years.

 

 

 

Edited September 24, 2022 by Manxman in exile

[Sirbob00]

Hi

 

Yes it’s a S172 so she’ll complete and get it posted off.  The registration number is absolutely nothing like hers was at the time.  Not 1 letter/number matches her car at the time.

She has left a message on the police website under contact an officer.

Which address is best to return to, the return address on the envelope or the address on the s172 letter.

 

Thank you

[unclebulgaria67]

Address on S172 letter, which should be the reply address

 

Return address on back of envelope the letter was received in, would just be where undelivered  letters are sent back to.

 

Did your daughter borrow or hire a car during the period involved ?

[Sirbob00]

Hi

No, never borrowed or hired the car and not been to the area where the RTC took place.  We don’t know the time of the accident but she’s pretty sure that day she was at work between 7-3 and then out drinking in Sunderland that evening as if I remember clubs had just started reopening.  The incident occurred in Newcastle.

[Manxman in exile]

2 hours ago, Sirbob00 said:

Hi

 

Yes it’s a S172 so she’ll complete and get it posted off.  The registration number is absolutely nothing like hers was at the time.  Not 1 letter/number matches her car at the time.

She has left a message on the police website under contact an officer.

Which address is best to return to, the return address on the envelope or the address on the s172 letter.

 

Thank you

 

Make sure she still has that conversation with the police, but if she can't or if they never get back to her she still MUST reply to the s172 before the deadline expires no matter what.

 

If there isn't space on the form, or if there isn't a tick-box that fits her circumstances, I think the usual advice is to write "See attached" and to attach a signed letter explaining the circumstances along the lines I suggested in my previous post.  

 

Keep a copy and send first class* from a post office counter making sure to get a free proof of posting certificate.

 

Good luck

 

*There is a presumption in law that a letter sent first class is delivered two working days later, unless the addressee can prove they did not receive it. 

 

(Purely out of interest, is the s172 request in the form of a standard pre-printed pro-forma, or does it look like e one-off indivual letter signed by a real person?  It doesn't make a difference, just curious)

 

 

[Sirbob00]

Hi

 

It was just a standard printed out form which wasn’t signed just the PC she should contact.  It was just on it’s own it an envelope with her name and address hand written on it.

[Manxman in exile]

I would keep trying to 'phone them to ask what is going on, but she must ensure she responds to the s172 request.

[Sirbob00]

Just a quick update.

 

Daughter spoke to advisor on 101 who spoke to officers at the police station that sent the letter.  

 

They are at a loss as no reference number on the letter but the officer named does exist.

 

 They’ve just advised to fill out the s172 and return which I’ve done today.

 

I’ll update when we hear further.

[Man in the middle]

 

Quote

 

They’ve just advised to fill out the s172 and return which I’ve done today.

 

I trust your daughter signed it.

Edited September 29, 2022 by Man in the middle

[Sirbob00]

Of course 

Edited September 29, 2022 by dx100uk
unnecessary previous post quote removed

[Sirbob00]

Further update.

 

Officer named on the letter sent to daughter regarding a RTC has replied saying they got the information from the police database that is updated by the DVLA and that her details are connected to the car as the logbook/V5 has been completed using her details.

 

Daughter has used online chat with the DVLA who have stated that she is not down as the owner/keeper of the car and never has been and if she sends a letter to them they’ll reply confirming this.

 

Ill get her to send a letter to the DVLA tomorrow.

 

In the meantime do we just wait for the police to contact her when they receive the s172.

Thank you 

[dx100uk]

Good looking promising this will resolve itself.

 

Dx

[Manxman in exile]

Have DVLA provided a transcript of the online chat with your daughter?  

 

If they have, she might want to send a copy of it now to the named police contact in support of her s172 response that she had no connection with the vehicle at all.  Might be worth contacting the police anyway to tell them of the converstaion even if she does not have a transcript.

 

I say that because she might not hear back from the police for weeks or even a couple of months yet, and it might be best to just get this sorted quickly rather than having it hang over her.  Also you never know how long it will take DVLA to produce written confirmation.

 

On a general note, I'd have to say I'm a bit concerned that registered keeper details on the police national database seem to be inconsistent with the same information held by DVLA.

 

That can't (or shouldn't!) be right...

[Sirbob00]

Yes she has a record of the chat.  The DVLA said roughly 6 weeks to respond confirming she’s not in any way attached to the car.  She did email the officer back but she’s on leave until 17th October but I’ll tell her to email again attaching the transcript.

 

When it’s resolved can she make a formal complaint and where would she start.

 

Thank you

[Manxman in exile]

If I were your daughter I'd send the police a copy of the transcript (referencing her earlier s172 response) as evidence that DVLA have confirmed by 'phone that she is not connected in any way to the vehicle in question.  Still write to DVLA for written confrimation of the same.

 

She can then sit back and relax confident in the knowledge that she's done everything she can to establish that she is not involved in this.  She can put it to the back of her mind and forget it until the police get back to her and tell her no further action against her. (Hopefully!)

 

She can make a formal complaint if she wants to, but I'm sure the most it will get her is an apology - which of course she is owed and I'm sure she will be happy with.  I suspect that this has all been caused by somebody (a witness, police or DVLA) making a simple typo or transcription error when writing down a number or inputting it on a keyboard.  I do it all the time and have done it above with "confrimation".  I often type "contrcat" too.

 

Having said that, it might be worthwhile asking for an explanation as to how a discrepancy has arisen between Registered Keeper details on the police national computer and on the DVLA database.  That shouldn't have happened...

 

Your daughter might want also to ask DVLA to confirm that she is not linked to any more vehicles other than the one she is meant to be linked to.  If it has happened once could it happenagain?  Not sure if it can be done or how you would ask.  Possibly a SAR?  I'm sure somebody here would know.  

 

Good luck!

 

NB 1  -  Make sure your daughter keeps copies of all her correspondence.  Who knows.  She might get letters from other people (eg private parking companies and local authority parking enforcement) who mistakenly think it's her car.  She will have evidence ready to demonstrate it isn't.

 

NB 2  -  Unless the police have already confirmed receipt of her s172 response, it might be a good idea to check they have received it.  It would be a pity for all her hard work to be for nothing if it got lost in the post!

 

 

Edited October 1, 2022 by Manxman in exile

[The GodMother]

Accidently stumbled across this and wondered if your daughter has noticed anyone poking threw bins or strange people hanging about. Maybe following delivery Companys when they leave parcels on door steps or noting down addresses so they can come back later. 

 

Only ask as we live in a high crime area along with area where a lot of people get put up in b and bs. Lots of people have been having issues with them going through general waste and recycling bins looking for letters or anything with a name and address on it.
Police have now told us to burn all mail. 

[Ethel Street]

We always shred everything with our name address on it, always have done. Even down to the labels on pizza boxes!

[The GodMother]

We have a shredder and do shread but the police still advised to burn as round here you cant recycle shreadded papers etc. If someone is desperate enough they will put it back together.

We use to just take of the bits that had name and address but they are now noting road details etc. 

They are not stupid on things. 

[unclebulgaria67]

8 hours ago, Ethel Street said:

We always shred everything with our name address on it, always have done. Even down to the labels on pizza boxes!

 

@Ethel Street

 

I thought I was in a minority as quite a security conscious person that did this, but appears that many people do the same. Before I put out my rubbish for collection, I double check that nothing has my name & address on it. I shred everything with my personal details showing.