Park Watch - Lease Car ANPR PCN Claimform - No Waiting - CROSSGATES SHOPPING CENTRE-CENTRE MANAGEMENT SUITE, LEEDS LS15 8ET *** Claim Dismissed***

[dx100uk]

Just follow any other PCN claimform thread 

 

 

[ShadesVFR]

Am I right in leaving my phone number and email address off the DQ sent by the court.

 

Presumably I need to send a copy to the court and also to the scammers ?

[dx100uk]

You do not put those on the fleecers copy correct.

3 copies

yes to mediation (unless you filed our Statute Barred Defence OR this is a claim for a Private Parking Ticket)

1 wit you

the rest is obv

1 to the court

1 to sols (omit phone/sig/email)

1 for your file

 

dx

[ShadesVFR]

Well they've transferred the case to Leeds, does that mean they've paid the court fee and it will definitely go to court ?

[dx100uk]

they havent done anything 

the courts have.

[AndyOrch]

1 hour ago, ShadesVFR said:

Well they've transferred the case to Leeds, does that mean they've paid the court fee and it will definitely go to court ?

 

Automatically transferred once both parties have submitted their DQs .....they don't pay the hearing fee until notified in the N157 Notice of Allocation with date to pay which is part of the courts directions for both parties.

 

So the next document you are waiting for is the N157 with the courts directions on how to prepare for the hearing.

 

Andy

[lookinforinfo]

What happened with your case please?

[ShadesVFR]

Still saying transferred to Leeds on MCOL. Nothing more since 16th August.

[lookinforinfo]

Thanks-i have a reason for asking but am not at home at the moment. When I get back I will post up something that might help your case.

 

I was going to post something up over something that happened back in 2018 where a BBC undercover team found them involved in underhand dealings as it was about a year after your dealings with them I thought it might show them up as an unscrupulous bunch,

 

However I read through your posts again and picked up from the first PCN that you received that the car was on hire to you.

 

Is that correct? 

And is an important fact in your case.

It blows out their whole case.

Please confirm that the car was on hire and you are the named hirer..

[ShadesVFR]

The car was leased, not hired as such. 

[lookinforinfo]

you were the keeper of the car while it was leased.

 

Park Watch sent the original PCN to the lease company who are the registered keepers. They then named you as the hirer of the car. Therefore the PCN from Park Watch should have been a Notice to Hirer not Notice to Keeper.

 

As such

according to PoFA

they should have sent you:

in addition to the NTH

 a copy of the original PCN

a copy of the lease agreement and

a copy of the statement of liability for debts and

a confirmation that you had were the keeper at the time of the offence.

 

This comes under PoFA Schedule 4 section 13 [2].

If they did not include those documents then you as the hirer are not liable for the breach they are claiming. Furthermore as this is an NTH, to comply with PoFA the time to pay should be 21 days not the usual 28 days. 

 

As they have even failed to get that right

then they fall foul of Section  14  [2] The Creditor can claim the charge from the Hirer providing

(2)The conditions are that—

(a)the creditor has within the relevant period given the hirer a notice in accordance with sub-paragraph (5) (a “notice to hirer”), together with a copy of the documents mentioned in paragraph 13(2) and the notice to keeper;

(b)a period of 21 days beginning with the day on which the notice to hirer was given has elapsed; and

(c)the vehicle was not a stolen vehicle at the beginning of the period of parking to which the unpaid parking charges relate.

 

As they have failed on both a and b. they cannot claim a penny from you. 

 

 

 

[dx100uk]

open

 

dx

 

[ShadesVFR]

So they finally sent a court date of 20th March. It's been so long I thought they'd given up. 

I need to send any documents I intend to rely upon to the court, but all the documents are Park Watches correspondence.

 

Do I just send a copy of the parking sign with no mention of "No Waiting" which the PCN was issued for, a copy of the photographs showing the car in position for less than 1 minute or just send everything because they have made a royal mess of this according to Lookinforinfo ?

 

[dx100uk]

scan up the court order please to pdf

 

you need to construct a witness statement

 

dx

 

[ShadesVFR]

Court Scan Redacted.pdf Court Date 2.pdf

[lookinforinfo]

No doubt you saw that VCS lost two cases against CAG members which should give you heart.

[FTMDave]

I remember your case and that Park Watch's case is absolute rubbish.

 

But that won't count for anything unless you prepare a decent Witness Statement.

 

You've been here for a while now, surely you've seen Witness Statements on other private parking threads.  CAG is a self-help site.

[ShadesVFR]

First attempt at a witness statement. Please let me know what you think

Witness Statement.pdf

[brassnecked]

A decent first stab at it but the team will advise on where to expand and also what exhibits you might need to include to back up your case, its not detailed enough, read a few other WS from other threads to get the picture.

[FTMDave]

Have a look at the attachment in post 110 here  https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/421775-vcs-spycar-pcn-paploc-now-claimform-no-stopping-east-midlands-airport/page/5/#comments

 

If it's not in post 110 it'll be a couple of posts above or below, sometimes the post count goes wonky.

 

This is a superb WS, the layout of which can be your base.  By that I do not, absolutely do not mean you should use the same legal arguments, as the case is very different from yours.  I mean the layout.  Look at how Alaska101 sets out the introduction and the conclusion.  And how the clear headings show the judge instantly which legal arguments are being used.  

 

More in a mo ...

 

Your arguments need to be -

 

1.  No locus standi - Park Watch aren't the landowner, they answered a CPR request but refused to show a contract with the landowner giving them the right to sue under their own name.

2.  Illegal signage - in the same CPR request you requested to see PP, they answered the request but refused to show the same, you believe it doesn't exist.

3.  Insufficient signage - the sign they showed in their CPR answer doesn't even include the "offence" they are taking action for.

4.  Grace period - the driver was there for an extremely short time and Park Watch have stated the vehicle was there from 13:46 to 13:46.

5.  No keeper liability - even if the court rejects the above arguments, you were not the driver at that the time and Park Watch have not established keeper liability in accordance with Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.  Put in the bit about the dates.  And all of LFI's great advice.

6.  Unicorn Food Tax.  You can basically use all of Alaska101's arguments as at least with the made-up extra charges every case is essentially the same.

 

I've just gone through your thread right from the start and can't find the original PCN.  Has it been removed?  Anyway, please post it up again.

[lookinforinfo]

To be honest it doesn't matter if you were the hirer, the driver or the keeper you are in the clear. You are the hirer and Park Watch did not comply with Schedule 4 S 14 [1] and [2]. They didn't send the required documents so they are unable to pursue you.

 

I would include every thing else that FTMDave stated but if you put the non compliance first, the case should not go any further than that. Park Watch are dead in the water.

[ShadesVFR]

Original PCN attached. It was up before as people have seen the photos. 

 

Amending witness statement to be more professional.

Original PCN.pdf

[dx100uk]

we need page 2 also

 

so this was not an ANPR capture but CCTV.

is yours the white van?

 

dx

 

[ShadesVFR]

No it was next to the van

 

[ShadesVFR]

I have just noticed on the original PCN, which was sent late, they do mention that I am the hirer of the vehicle. Does this negate the Notice to Keeper / Notice to Hirer argument ?

 

Another effort at a witness statement. Left in same order but fleshed out due to time constraints.

Witness Statement 2.pdf