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    • I found that the parkin attended has a car with CCTV camera on it, however as I stated earlier, it seems that he did not take video of my car otherwise they would have stated so in the SAR. parking car .pdf
    • The rules state that "approved devices may only be used in limited circumstances"  I was not a threat. I was not present. I did not drive away. I think he has not fulfilled the necessary requirements justifying issuing me a PCN by post therefore the PCN was issued incorrectly and not valid.  What are your thoughts?  
    • I have also found this:  D.2 Service of a PCN by post: 54) There are some circumstances in which a PCN (under Regulation 10) may be served by post: 1) where the contravention has been detected on the basis of evidence from an approved device (approved devices may only be used in limited circumstances) 2) if the CEO has been prevented, for example by force, threats of force, obstruction or violence, from serving the PCN either by affixing it to the vehicle or by giving it to the person who appears to be in charge of that vehicle 3) if the CEO had started to issue the PCN but did not have enough time to finish or serve it before the vehicle was driven away and would otherwise have to write off or cancel the PCN 55) In any of these circumstances a PCN is served by post to the owner and also acts as the NtO. The Secretary of State recommends that postal PCNs should be sent within 14 days of the contravention. Legislation states that postal PCNs must be sent within 28 days, unless otherwise stated in the Regulations. This from London Councils Code of Practice on Civil Parking Enforcement.  The question is what is an approved device? Certainly, he had the opportunity to place the ticket on my car and I didn't drive away.  I looked further and it seems that an approved device is a CCTV camera - It seems that the photos taken were not actual film but images and it is not clear if they are taken from a video or are stills. I'm guessing if it was moving images then the SAR would have stated this.    From the Borough of Hounslow website: "There are two types of PCN issued under the Traffic Management Act 2004, which governs parking contraventions. The first is served on-street by a Civil Enforcement Officer, who will observe a vehicle and collect evidence before serving the PCN either by placing it in a plastic wallet under the windscreen wiper, or by handing it to the driver. The second is a PCN served by post, based on CCTV footage taken by an approved device, which has been reviewed by a trained CCTV Operator."   From Legislation.gov.uk regarding approved devices: Approved Devices 4.  A device is an approved device for the purposes of these Regulations if it is of a type which has been certified by the Secretary of State as one which meets requirements specified in Schedule 1. SCHEDULE 1Specified requirements for approved devices 1.  The device must include a camera which is— (a)securely mounted on a vehicle, a building, a post or other structure, (b)mounted in such a position that vehicles in relation to which relevant road traffic contraventions are being committed can be surveyed by it, (c)connected by secure data links to a recording system, and (d)capable of producing in one or more pictures, a legible image or images of the vehicle in relation to which a relevant road traffic contravention was committed which show its registration mark and enough of its location to show the circumstances of the contravention. 2.  The device must include a recording system in which— (a)recordings are made automatically of the output from the camera or cameras surveying the vehicle and the place where a contravention is occurring, (b)there is used a secure and reliable recording method that records at a minimum rate of 5 frames per second, (c)each frame of all captured images is timed (in hours, minutes and seconds), dated and sequentially numbered automatically by means of a visual counter, and (d)where the device does not occupy a fixed location, it records the location from which it is being operated. 3.  The device and visual counter must— (a)be synchronised with a suitably independent national standard clock; and (b)be accurate within plus or minus 10 seconds over a 14-day period and re-synchronised to the suitably independent national standard clock at least once during that period. 4.  Where the device includes a facility to print a still image, that image when printed must be endorsed with the time and date when the frame was captured and its unique number. 5.  Where the device can record spoken words or other audio data simultaneously with visual images, the device must include a means of verifying that, in any recording produced by it, the sound track is correctly synchronised with the visual image.
    • Hearing took place today.  Case dismissed with costs awarded. Neither UKPC or a representative turned up.  Apparently they messaged the court on 7 May asking for their case to be considered on paper.  Never informed me, which was criticised by the judge as not following procedure.  I was really annoyed as I would have preferred for the case to be thrown out before the hearing, or at least face them in court and see them squeal.   They are just playing a numbers game and hope you blink 1st!   Ended up having to change my flight, but  the costs awarded softens the blow. Was asked to confirm it was my signature on both the witness statement and supplementary statement.  Wasn't asked to read them, said she could see my arguments made and the signs were insufficient and no contract formed. Took maybe 10 mins in total.  Judge did most of the talking and was best for me just to keep quiet or confirm any statements made. Happy to have won as a matter of principle and have costs awarded. Maybe not worth all the time and hassle for any newbies or the technologically challenged.  But if you are stubborn like me and willing to put in the time and effort, you can beat these vultures! I big shout out to everyone who helped on the thread with their advice and guidance, special mention to FTMDave, thank you sir!  Really appreciate everyone's efforts. All the best!
    • I plan to be honest to avoid any further trouble, tell them that the name should be changed to my official name
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

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NCP/BW PCN PAPLOC now claimform - New Gatwick Drop Off Zone - I thought I had paid for both visits? ***Claim Dismissed***


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mores the point how did they get your email address?

you need to kill that by telling them not to use email again for anything to do with our mutual claim.

else they'll file a supplementary ws 1 min before a deadline (14 days as in courts letter?) removing your chance to counter their lies and fake documents)

pers i would not respond offering letter tennis to their urgent request to mitigate their losses ... you dont have to at all,

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thanks for your feedback Dx

I did wonder where they got my contact details (email & mobile) from. But I can only assume from their 'client' NCP whom we emailed to complete my SAR claim against them. I have of course not given NCP any permission to share my contact details... But proving that they have done this could be tricky.

Weirdly they called me first at 9am, before emailing me at 9.02am requesting my phone number and a suitable time to call! They clearly had my number and were only interested in catching me off guard. Luckily I never answer any numbers I don't recognise, especially from Leeds!

If everyone is agreed, I am happy to ignore this attempt of contact. The whole phone calling/emailing smacks of unprofessionalism in my book, and certainly shows them up as just what they really are... debt collectors!! Not solicitors.

 

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Constant phoning  if they persist regarding an alleged debt or invoice might well fall foul of other l;aw.

We could do with some help from you.

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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No, you should do it by letter, as DX said in his last post (with usual free proof of posting).

We could do with some help from you.

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Waoh. Looks like they are getting desperate.

This has just arrived in my inbox.... From their auto mailing system. This will tell them that the email has been received and opened.... I will get the letter off asap telling the to cease any contact with me, other than Royal Mail.

Is there anything in pursuing them as to how they got my contact details and phone number. Surely if NCP have shared this personal data without my permission they have breached GDPR rules? Do BW see my contact details that have been supplied to the court? 

Without Prejudice Save as to Costs
Our Client: National Car Parks (EUK) Limited
Our Reference: XXXXX
Client Reference:XXXXXXX
Balance Due: £250.74
Hearing Venue: XXXXX
Hearing Date: 20/09/2023
We are writing to you because the court has listed our client's claim for a court hearing on 20/09/2023. 

Our client is keen to resolve matters amicably by offering you the opportunity to pay a discounted balance on the sums due. We wanted to let you know that we are available to assist you throughout this time via numerous methods, from our contact centre, webchat and our customer portal to avoid the need for a hearing. 

Great news - 25% discount offer 
Our client wants to help with any possible financial burden that you may have and we are able to now offer you a pre-approved discount. This can be paid in one lump sum, or you can pay this over a pre agreed instalment plan. This offer is open for acceptance until 21 August 2023. You do not need to call us to accept this offer if this is affordable to you. Just log in, or register to use our Customer Portal www.bwlegal.co.uk and select "Customer Login". The pre-approved settlement and plan is ready for you to accept. You need to quote our reference, along with your address details and a couple of other security questions in order to register.  

The discount available is 25%. If you do take advantage of the discount, the revised amount to pay will be £188.05 if paid by 21 August 2023. If you cannot afford to pay the discounted amount in full, do not worry. You can still take advantage of the offer by setting up a pre-approved monthly instalment plan in the sum of £25.00 per month. The plan has been recommended to take into account estimated disposable income. You will be able to choose the first payment date and payment method. Alternatively, please call us on 0113 323 1784 or speak to us via webchat so we can assist you in setting up the plan.  

Once the offer has been accepted, we will notify the court that the hearing listed on 20/09/2023 does not need to go ahead. If you have filed a counterclaim, you will need to ensure that you inform the court and ourselves, in writing, that you no longer wish to proceed with the counterclaim.  
Yours sincerely, 
BW Legal
bw legal

N.B. To opt out of email communication from BW Legal please reply to this email quoting reference "xxxxxxx"

 

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"The plan has been recommended to take into account estimated disposable income."

They're good at guessing games... First they guess your email and phone number, now they guess your income and expenditure details! 😂

We could do with some help from you.

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Yes, they are getting desperate.  They know their case is pants but are hoping your are terrified of court and will pay them something.  How about this by first class post today with free Certificate of Posting -

Dear Rachael and Sean,

Re: claim no.XXXXX, your client - National Car Parks Ltd

I refer to your recent attempts to contact me by e-mail and by phone.  I have never given these details to your company.  Please note that all communications between us regarding the aforementioned legal dispute must be by Royal Mail only.

However, while writing I will refer to great news!  100% discount offer!  I am prepared to pay exactly £0.00 in this case.  My offer is that if your client discontinues this claim, I will refrain from suing for distress caused by breach of my GDPR.  Kindly note that suing regarding GDPR is not an idle threat, I have already sued, and won, against your client for distress caused by failure to respect a Subject Access Request (claim no.XXXXX).

Yours, XXXXX

Edited by FTMDave
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We could do with some help from you.

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Loving the Rachael & Sean opener... I did my research on the firm a while back. Basically 2 solicitors (if they are even still registered, although I think they are) and a few 'para legals' (fancy PAs) sending out copy & paste nonsense. On the whole I have also read that they go quiet very soon... I am weirdly hoping they don't... I want my day in court.

Thoughts on this....

Re: Client Ref XXXXXX / BW Legal Case Ref XXXXX

Dear Mr Barton & Ms Withers

I write to you about your PA’s recent somewhat harassing and unprofessional attempts to contact me by e-mail and by phone. I want it noted that I have never given these specific contact details to your company, and you do not have any right to gather and utilise them without my prior consent. I also want it noted, upon your receipt of this letter, that all communications regarding our mutual legal dispute must be by Royal Mail only.

As I have already made perfectly clear in my past correspondence with you, I am prepared to pay £0.00 to settle this case after the treatment I have been subjected to by your client and yourselves. 

However, in the spirit of compromise and without prejudice, I would now like to take this opportunity to reach out to you and offer you a 100% discount. My offer is that if your client discontinues this claim, I will refrain from suing them for the distress caused by their clear and obvious breach of my GDPR rights in sharing my personal contact data that has been held by them for their use, without my consent.

Please do not assume that my suing regarding GDPR is an idle threat, I have already successfully sued your client for the distress caused by their failure to respect my Subject Access Request (claim #: XXXXX). 

I honestly hope to never hear from you again.

Regards,

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Well it's up to you, but you have a habit of wanting to change letters which are already perfectly fine.

I'm not a GDPR expert so I don't think it's a good idea to be too specific about what the breach would be in case you get it wrong, therefore I would cut out "in sharing my personal contact data that has been held by them for their use, without my consent".

Also the last line has to go as you do want to hear from them  again - to say they have discontinued the case.

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We could do with some help from you.

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Ha! Fair enough. I just don't like copy & pasting peoples words, when I will have to stand by them should they be challenged in court.

Thanks Dave, much appreciated on the feedback.

I have edited the letter now as per your instruction. I am heading to the post office now to post it, as I have been working all morning. 

Had another bloody phone call from them today at 1.30pm. I'm just ignoring them.

FYI in regards to basic rights of GDPR/Data Protection

Under the Data Protection Act 2018, you have the right to find out what information the government and other organisations store about you. These include the right to:

  • be informed about how your data is being used
  • access personal data
  • have incorrect data updated
  • have data erased
  • stop or restrict the processing of your data
  • data portability (allowing you to get and reuse your data for different services)
  • object to how your data is processed in certain circumstances

You also have rights when an organisation is using your personal data for:

  • automated decision-making processes (without human involvement)
  • profiling, for example to predict your behaviour or interests
I could request them to erase my email and phone number from their records? What do you think?

 

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Letter posted with free proof of delivery recorded.

I guess the ball is firmly in their court now.

The Notice of Trial Date letter states that my court bundle will need to received by them no later than 7 days before the court date. If the my court date is 20th September, should I have them emailed off by midnight on 12th September? Or anytime on the 13th?

I have read on other threads on here that it's best to leave the filing of the court bundle until the very last minute. I just don't want to cock that up. It would not be a good start to things.

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email the court yes but not the fleccers!

as you've said dont use email?. and you shouldn't either.

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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the very day will do as they would. as long as its by 4pm its registered as rx'd.

dx

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please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • 4 weeks later...

Okay... FYI... We are definitely one for a remote court hearing on Wed 20th September. The fleecers paid up the court fee on 14th August. It took me nearly a week to get through to Court Services UK number! Having attempted many times but having to give up after 45mins on hold!

I am working my way through the court requirements for the presentation of the bundle. I will get Adobe Pro for 7 day trial to put the final indexed & bookmarked document.

I am naturally now nervous, but resolute. 😬

I will post a final redacted court bundle asap.

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So presumably both you and the fleecers have to produce Witness Statements by 6 September, right?

We could do with some help from you.

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OK, but we need to see the WS too.

Barristers will have a much better overall knowledge of law than CAG - but not necessarily of the tactics of outwitting private parking companies in court.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

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LOh don’t worry you basically have seen it all already. I posted it up here a few weeks ago.

I just want see how legally water tight my argument is under the scrutiny of a few professionals. And also, as one if my friends is also now moving into the judiciary side of things, to make sure presentation to the court is spot on and how a judge likes to see things.

As dx100 says, I need to put the work in to get this over the line. Not just depend on CAGers to do it all for me.

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