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    • I do disagree with you regarding one thing - we are not very good with letters or these situations and are slow on the uptake. So far you have stood up to Excel and their threats, immediately given us the information in the sticky, done loads of reading up to educate yourselves, learnt from the mistake of outing the driver so you'll know not to do so in the future, got on to the organ grinder to try to get them to call off their dogs, etc., etc.  Good grief - we wish everyone who came here would do this!!! Most people who get these invoices sadly think they have been fined and if they don't pay a drone from Ukraine will be diverted and will fall on their home (or some such vague grand apocalyptic threat) and they fold and give in.  You haven't.  Well done. Don't worry - you won't be paying a penny.  Although it will take some time to see off this vile company.
    • Spot on!  You learn quickly. Who cares if the case gets sent to debt collectors?  They have no powers.  All the effort you will have to put in will be to open envelopes - and then spend time laughing at their daft "threats".  No stress at all!
    • I did ask them why, but seems they have more spare cash than we do .. ;-( .. I doubt their bank would even support a chargeback after a year has passed. Anyway I've constructed my first DRAFT Snotty Letter .. so here goes ..   RE: PCN 4xxxxx Dear ALLIANCE PARKING Litigation Dept, Thank you for your dubious Letter Of Claim (dated 29th April 2024) of £100 for just 2 minutes of overstay. The family rolled around on the floor in amazement of the idea you actually think they’d accept this nonsense, let alone being confused over the extra unlawful £70 you had added. Shall we raise that related VAT issue with HMRC, or perhaps the custodians of the unicorn grain silos? Apart from the serious GDPR breach you’ve made with the DVLA and your complete failure in identifying the driver, we’re dumbfounded that the PCN is still not compliant with the PoFA (2012 Schedule 4 Under Section 9.2.f) even after 12 years of pathetic trial and error. We also doubt a judge would be very impressed at your bone idleness and lack of due diligence regarding the ANPR entry / exit periods compared with actual valid parking periods. Especially with no consideration of the legally allowed grace periods and the topological nature of the Cornish landscape versus a traditional multi-storey. And don’t even get us started on the invisible signage during the ultra busy bank holiday carnage, that is otherwise known as the random parking chaos in the several unmarked over-spill fields, or indeed the tedious “frustration of contract” attempting to get a data connection to Justpark.  We suggest your clients drop this extreme foolishness or get an absolute hammering in court. We are more than ready to raise the issues with a fair minded judge, who will most likely laugh your clients out in less time than it takes to capture more useless ANPR photos. We will of course be requesting “an unreasonable costs order” under CPR 27.14.2.g and put it toward future taxis to Harlyn Bay instead.  We all look forward to your clients' deafening silence. Legal Counsel on behalf of the Vehicle Keeper.  
    • Hi,t I'm not sure if I'm posting in the right subsection but General Retail appears to be the closest to it I think... About a year and a half ago I got a new phone so I listed my iPhone 10 on eBay.  The listed stated 'UK only' and 'no returns accepted'. Considering I had had the phone for about 4 years, I myself was amazed that I had kept it in such good condition all that time - apart from being slightly scuffed around the charging port there was absolutely nothing wrong with it. It had the original box, its unopened original Apple cable, plug, and earbuds, and I threw in a case for it and It had always had a screen protector on it. Someone wanted it from Armenia, and I stupidly agreed to it.  She paid and I sent it off, fully insured. Not long after she received it, she sent a message saying it 'was not as described', so I asked to see photos of whatever was the problem.  She sent two photographs of the box.  Just the box.  I said I wasn't even going to consider refunding her unless she told me what she meant by 'not as described'.  I thought, if it's been damaged in transit, then it would be covered by the insurance. Anyway, she didn't respond at all, even though I had messaged her several times, so she opened a case with eBay. I have sold a fair few things of mine on eBay in the past buy had never had had anyone come back to me asking for a refund.  I got in touch with eBay several times by phone and by email, and found out they always side with the buyer, no matter what with their 'eBay Seller Guarantee'.  She had been told she could keep the phone and told me they would recover the money from me from my account blah blah.  So I unlinked all of my cards etc and changed my bank account to one that I never use with no money in it. My account got suspended.  I continued to try to explain to eBay that I had been scammed but I got nowhere. My account was permanently inaccessible by this point. I reported the phone stolen and the IMEI blacklisted but I'm not sure if that would make any difference being in Armenia, but it was all I could think of to piss the buyer off. A couple of months later I was contacted by email by a debt recovery company (I can' remember who now), to whom I explained I will not discuss the matter with them until I had received an SAR I had requested from eBay. As I could no longer access my account, I couldn't review the communication I needed to show I was not in the wrong. The SAR was produced but I was advised that the information I was looking for would not be included but I said I wanted it anyway.  There were so many codes etc. and hoops to jump through to access it, that even after trying whilst on the phone to them, I still couldn't get into it, so I never got to see it in the end.  I think they said they would send the code by post but they never did and I forgot about it after a while. I've just come across a couple of emails from Moorgroup, asking me to phone them to discuss a private matter regarding eBay.  I haven't replied or done anything at all yet.  The amount they are trying to recover from me is £200ish from what I remember. I know it's not that much but I don't want to pay the b*astards on general principle. I've had a lot of useful advice from CAG in the past about debt collectors but it has always been about being chased by creditors, I've never been in this situation before. I don't know what power they legally have to recover the 'debt', and most importantly, I am two years into a DRO, and the last thing I want is another CCJ to shake off if I'm cutting my nose off to spite my face.   Any advice gratefully received!!
    • Hi, I have the Sims 4 on Macbook. Over the last year I have paid for multiple add on packs spending a lot of money on them. I bought them all in good faith as my Mac met all the minimum requirements to play them. I have been playing happily for about a year and bought my latest pack just over a week ago. The games were all working fine yesterday. Then suddenly today EA released a new app to launch the games and this new app requires a MAC OS that my computer cannot use. Now suddenly none of my games are accessible and I am unable to play anything. They did not warn us about this change in requirements and if I had known they would be doing this I wouldn't have bought all these add ons as they are now all totally unusable. The games themselves have not changed, only their app to launch them and I can't afford to buy a brand new mac just to play. So my question is how can they change the minimum requirements after I have paid for a game? I agreed to pay for them based on the fact my mac met their requirements and was not informed when purchasing that this would be an issue in the future. I understand new games (like Sims 5 which is to be released next year) might not be compatible but this is a 10yr old game that they have suddenly made inaccessible due to their new launch app. Does anybody know if I can do anything or anyway to get a partial refund from them? Thanks   Here are their T&C... I can't find anything in there about them being able to do this so not sure what to do https://tos.ea.com/legalapp/WEBTERMS/US/en/PC/
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

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      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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VCS Spycar PCN PAPLOC now Claimform - No Stopping - Bristol Airport **CLAIM DISMISSED**


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You're right, Ambreen has produced the usual copy & paste tripe.

 

Some changes immediately come to mind.  New 5.4 -

 

5.4  The vehicle is on a fleet policy with more than 20 drivers.  The Claimant has just assumed that I was the driver during the incident in question without any proof.

 

Obviously change for accuracy.

 

in your section 9, cut out all the points up to and including 9.3 and substitute with -

 

9. The Claimant seeks recovery of the original £100 charge plus an additional £70 described as “debt collection costs”.  No further justification or breakdown has been provided as required under the Civil Procedure Rule 16.4.

 

9.1  In paras 36 and 37 of her Witness Statement, the Claimant's paralegal makes great play of the fact that the trade association the Claimant belongs to allows a debt recovery charge and that "the sum must not exceed £60".  The Claimant has added £70 so on their own admittance has broken their trade association code of practice.

 

9.2.  In reality is it legislation, not the Claimant's trade association, which decides what is reasonable and lawful.  Section 9 of the new government Code of Practice, published on 7 February 2022, and based on the Parking (Code of Practice) Act 2019 regulates the matter of recovery costs:

 

"The Parking operator must not levy additional costs over and above the level of a parking charge or parking tariff as originally issued".


9.2.1  Section 5.3 of the new Code of Practice states the following:“The provisions of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 relate specifically to the parking of vehicles on relevant land and the recovery of parking charges – they arose from the need to respect landowner’s interests given the prohibition on wheel clamping, and so largely envisage circumstances where a wheel-clamp may otherwise have been applied i.e to a stationary, generally unoccupied, vehicle.  However, this Code also applies to instances where the prohibition on stopping arises from a clear security concern e.g within airports.  Parking operators must only pursue parking charges in instances that could be interpreted as stopping if they have explicit consent to do so on evidenced security or safety grounds from their conformity assessment body, following audit of the adequacy of the signs and surface markings in place to inform drivers of the restrictions in place“.


9.2.2.  Section 7.2 of the new CoP, defines explicitly, when photographic evidence should be used to serve notice: "Care must be taken to ensure that photographic evidence from camera vehicles is only used to serve a notice of
parking charge in respect of parked vehicles, not vehicles whose drivers have momentarily stopped e.g. to check directions or an address within a business park”.

9.2.3.  The publication of this Code therefore marks the start of an adjustment period in which parking companies will be expected to follow as many of these new rules as possible.  The Code will then come into full force before 2024, when the single appeals service is expected to be in operation.  This indicates that the new CoP should be adhered to now, where possible, but clearly VCS are choosing to ignore these new rules, and continuing to go about their business as normal, regardless of the law.


9.3.  Even before publication of the government's Code of Practice, Parliament intended that private parking companies could not invent extra charges.  The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4, paragraph 4(5) states that "The maximum sum which may be recovered from the keeper is the amount specified in the Notice to Keeper" - so in this case £100.

 

All your points from 9.4. are fine as they are.

 

More later.  Work calls.

We could do with some help from you.

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If you want a laugh - and to plant in the judge's mind that they are liars - stick in two new paragraphs between FRUSTRATION OF CONTRACT and CONCLUSION.

 

11.  Ambreen Arshad is being rather disingenuous (Claimant's Witness Statement para 40) when she says she "may" not be able to attend the hearing.  I have researched scores of VCS cases and neither she nor Mr Mohammed Wali (the other paralegal employed by VCS to write their Witness Statements) have ever appeared in court.  This is particularly striking as during the pandemic hearings were on the telephone or on-line with no travelling involved.  In no circumstances do VCS want their Witness Statement authors to appear in a person at a hearing where they could be questioned.

 

12.  In a number of recent cases VCS have claimed to have not received the Defendant's Witness Statement, although the Defendant had proof of posting.  I fully expect this trick to be tried in my case.

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2 hours ago, Lazy farmer said:

I'm not great with MS Word so the numbering & pagination will need tidying once the draft is complete.

No worries, we'll help out.

 

2 hours ago, Lazy farmer said:

My copied defence also lists Parking Eye v Beavis 2015 - is this a bad idea?

Are you sure?  Didn't you file the standard short defence?

We could do with some help from you.

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I copied from another WS, if you look at my first draft WS its section 9.4 and seeks to clarify that the £100 charge notice is sufficient to cover letters/debt collection costs without adding a separate £60/£70 debt collection charge.

The VCS WS also posted above seems to use the same case to justify that entering the site constituted acceptance of the terms & conditions.

 

My concern is, am I quoting a case that has a verdict that goes against part of my argument?

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It's not a problem at all as you & Simon are using different parts of the judgement.

 

VCS are saying that the judge found that a contract had been entered into and that the £85 (now £100) was payable.

 

You're saying the judge said the £85 (now £100) was the maximum that could be charged.

 

You're both right about different parts of the judgement.

We could do with some help from you.

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If you want to make it crystal clear that you understand the judgement and are using it in its entirety, unlike Simon, then change your paragraph to -

 

9.4. Previous parking charge cases have found that the parking charge itself is at a level to include the costs of recovery.  In para 24 of their Witness Statement the Claimant quotes Parking Eye Ltd vs Beavis (2015) UKSC 67 and the fact that the judge held that the parking invoice of £85 was payable.  They omit that Beavis is the authority for recovery of the parking charge itself and no more, since that sum (£85) was held to already incorporate the costs of an automated private parking business model and the Supreme Court Judges held that a parking firm not in possession cannot plead any part of their case in damages.  It is indisputable that an alleged ”parking charge” penalty is a sum which the Supreme Court found is already inflated to more than comfortably cover all costs. The case provides a finding of fact by way of precedent, that the £85 (or up to a Trade Body ceiling of £100 depending on the parking firm) covers the costs of the letters. Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated ''Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones-Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates [...] in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared [...] the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process."

Edited by FTMDave
Layout improved

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Looking good, i like the inclusion of the £220 threatogram from simon  his minionmight have difficulty batting that one away.

 

At 10 under Frustration of Contract, maybe change offence to alleged parking incident? sure FTMDave and LFI will look it over soon.

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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That is a cracking WS.  Well done.  I wouldn't change a single word.

 

What might be an idea though is to swap ABUSE OF PROCESS and FRUSTRATION OF CONTRACT round. 

 

FRUSTRATION OF CONTRACT is IMO more important, if accepted their whole claim goes in the bin.

 

Whereas ABUSE OF PROCESS is quibbling about how much you would have to pay were you bang to rights.

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https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/private-parking-code-of-practice/private-parking-code-of-practice#annex-f-exempt-vehicle-cases-no-stopping-zones-and-appeals

 

Scroll down to Annex F, F1, g. 

 

I reckon you could use that to beef up FRUSTRATION OF CONTRACT.  if you do so mention it is Annex F, F1, g of the government Code of Practice introduced in February this year under the Parking (Code of Practice) Act 2019.

 

The current legal situation is that the Code is temporarily withdrawn because the fleecers are legally challenging (a) the amount of their invoices allowed and (b) debt collection charges, they are not challenging Annex F.  In any case as VCS act like the CoP doesn't exist they are hardly likely to bring up this technicality.

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Great, ive swapped the headers & added the Annex F, F1, g.

I noticed d - which might also apply:

d) a vehicle that has been driven onto controlled land due to an instruction to the driver by a member of the emergency services, or an invitation or instruction from the landholder(s) or parking operator; (My vehicle was pre-booked into on site parking)

Finally, from copying Maximus WS I have listed the airport byelaws as an exhibit but am not sure if they help my case, should i have listed Schedule 4 of POFA instead? Byelaws attached

Bristol Airport Byelaws 11062018.pdf

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Well spotted. 

 

By all means include this extra clause and link it your pre-booking.  Can't harm you.  The judge may well agree, but even if the judge disagrees then you've lost nothing by trying.

 

The bye-laws are a good idea too.  These are the laws that cover the airport, not something made up by a grubby private parking company.  Had you done something wrong - of course you didn't - but had you then it should be the police involved and a fine in a magistrates' court.

 

Thanks for uploading the bye-laws, this will be very useful for others in the same position.

We could do with some help from you.

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Thanks, i'm now all good to go. 

 

Will email the court tomorrow & post to VCS on Wednesday with proof of postage.

 

Will revise & make sure I understand the points i'm making.

 

Will update as to how it goes.

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1 hour ago, Lazy farmer said:

Great, ive swapped the headers

I fear I might have expressed myself badly.

 

I didn't mean just the headers.

 

I meant that point 10 (with header FRUSTRATION OF CONTRACT) should go before points 9 to 9.8 (with header ABUSE OF PROCESS).

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I can't see where to email the court so may just post both.

It says I may be able to email by using the Money Claims On Line service that I am registered for but i cant see any option to email in my WS

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27 minutes ago, Lazy farmer said:

I can't see where to email the court so may just post both.

It says I may be able to email by using the Money Claims On Line service that I am registered for but i cant see any option to email in my WS

Should be on your Notice of Allocation N157......the one you didn't upload :classic_happy:

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