German Car Shop , Leicester - sold unroadworthy car - won't take it back

[AndyOrch]

Bankfodder has just informed me he is aware but wont be able to look at this until October if you wish to hold on.

 

Andy

[Cyrylbea]

No worries I will wait .  So I will post it here in october then . 

[AndyOrch]

Yes by all means have a go at drafting the letter and it will assist you in the process..but do not send it

[Cyrylbea]

I did letter of claim . I used original one as a guide , just made few adjusements.  

Can you have a look at it please 

Final letter of claim.pdf

[Cyrylbea]

Hello

Apologies for reminding myself . I understand BankFodder is very busy .

But is any chance to have a look at that letter and check it please ?

I m sorry for being impatient . 

 

[Cyrylbea]

I know you helping other people  and advising them  . 

I m happy to wait till end of this month , just want to  make sure letter of claim will get check  like I was informed ? I just dont want to  get forgotten .

 I need to get going with my case and get it sorted  out . 

Thank you 

 

 

[Cyrylbea]

Hi 

 

I have been waiting all october as advised.

 I understand you dealing with other cases.

But 4 weeks gone now  , today is last day of october ,  I posted  draft of letter of claim  but no response or any advice or interest.

I tried to be patient but right now it looks like nobody really wants to help me .

I m about  to take legal action against car dealer as its been going on too long now.

I was hoping to get some help and advice here.

This forum is a brilliant  place to help people  but looks like not for me for some unknown  for me reason. 

Have I done smth wrong ? 

[Cyrylbea]

Will I get help here or I have to deal with  case myself ? 

[dx100uk]

you need to spell check you loc as there are mistakes and duplicate words.

 

its also a bit long and waffles.

 

its also 14 days not 7

 

dx

 

 

[Cyrylbea]

I m sorry english is not my first language and thats the best I can do .

I will correct mistakes and duplicate words and send it.

[dx100uk]

i would shorten it to a bullet point list of faults that you are raising the letter of claim for.

 

you need, without the waffle, to CLEARLY focus upon why you are issuing the LOC, as it stands there is far too much other twaddle for the recipient to work out why you are sending it.

 

you've been here 3 mts now, that is well time enough to do your your own self help and look at almost 100 like threads already, and i see andyorch already pointed you them earlier...regarding how a letter of claim should be formatted done by others.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BankFodder]

I'm going to say right now that in addition to helping other people, we are also dealing with our own issues in our own lives.

You come here for free help and you get on our terms.

For the record I'm gonna point out that I bent over backwards to help you and to try to rescue you from the mess that you put yourself in – and we had a very good case and we were on the verge of sending out a letter of claim and then issuing proceedings – and it was you who went ahead and agreed to accept £300 in full and final settlement of the entire claim which I understand may well have been worth over £4000.

You actually make promises to me that you would cave in and you would stand your ground in the face of aggression from the dealers, but in breach of that promise you simply went ahead and made your own private deal and basically sold your rights for bonbons.

Since then you have come back to me and said that you have changed your mind and you realise that you made a mistake and did you have a chance of recovering all of the money.

I have told you that there is a slim chance that you will have to wait. You are waiting longer than I suggested and once again there are all sorts of reasons for this. We have our families and we have our lives and we have our own difficulties but you only seem to think about yourself.

You sent me an email a couple of days ago which was extremely unpleasant and aggressive.

I have to say that if you had used the same style of aggression and assertiveness towards the dealers who basically have ripped you off, and then to who you sold yourself for £300, you would not be in this position.

By now we would have probably been in a situation where the very least they would have been a mediation – and maybe even a judgement in your favour.
But you sold it all for £300.

I'm happy to look back at this again that first of all I think you had better comment on what I've just written and secondly I think you need to understand that it's an extremely slim chance – partly because the company you are dealing with seem to be so aggressive that I'm not sure whether you will be able to stand up to them when things get tough.

A slim chance of success means that you will have to lay out some money to bring the court proceedings and that you could find yourself in a position where you lose the court proceedings and that means that you are left with your wreck of a vehicle and also the loss of your expenses.

If you happen to succeed then you will have a judgement in your hands but of course as I've always said, the next problem is to enforce the judgement.
If you are able to enforce the judgement then you will be left with the wreck of your car, a judgement in your hand, and expenses of the claim and also of the enforcement which you will not be able to get back.

[Cyrylbea]

Yes I sold myself for 300£ which I used to pay for a  brake repairs . Its done , cant turn the time back , no point thinking - If only...

I m not the first one and the last on this forum.  Recently there was a person on forum who also accepted some sort settlement but that didnt cross out the chance for winning.

You mention before we can overcome that I accept deal  .

I do believe I can win in court .

Regarding enforcing jugdment , even If I won my claim before accepting deal I could still have problems enforcing the  jugdment as you mention in earlier posts the company seems to be very slippery plus I could face losing expenses of claim. 

And I m able to stand against car dealer this time even if you think diffrently.

 

I sent you emails and last thing on my mind wanting sound agressive and unpleasant. But you said you will back to me beggining of september and we will send letter of claim. And it didnt happened. I understand you have your own private life plus helping others on this forum but you could informed that you will be unavaible for longer or you changed your mind. Please try put yourself in my position.

You sound like you lost interest in my case and I dont want bugging you . I do appreciate all help I got from you when I was dealing with car dealer and I m thankfull for that.

 

 

 

 

[honeybee13]

Replying to your PM.

 

You said that you're preparing your Particulars of Claim [POCs] and will start a claim.

 

Have you already sent a letter before claim? You need to do that first and dx100uk and Andyorch have suggested how you can do this.

 

HB

[FTMDave]

The courts in England expect claimants to abide by the Pre-Action Protocol.  The Letter of Claim is part of this.  If you don't send the letter it's likely you'll be hammered by way of costs and/or interest later on.

 

Please follow what dx and Andyorch have suggested and post up a draft of a revised, shorter Letter of Claim.

 

 

[Cyrylbea]

Final letter of claim(2).pdf

I made some adjusements but any advice / correction  much appreciated. 

[FTMDave]

Work calls at the moment but I promise to have a look late on this evening.

 

It's part of my day job to correct documents in English so no problem!

[FTMDave]

I've just about corrected the English and split it up into paragraphs but will finish late this evening when I have more time.  Before then could you please make a clear list of exactly what you want to claim from them, for example:

 

   Repairs already carried out £2000

   Repair work needed to bring the car into a roadworthy condition £3000

   Cost of inspection £90

   Cost of MOT £30

   TOTAL £5120

 

I've just invented these figures, it's just an example, I know the sum is not £5120!  However, a clear list would be useful.

Edited November 14, 2021 by FTMDave
Potential libel (my fault)

[Cyrylbea]

Thank you . ( Car is roadworthy condition now  as brakes have been replaced but may go down to metal very soon if I dont replace calliper : 202 £ plus vat , which I include that in Repairs needed) .

 

Repairs already carried out - 327 £ 

Repairs needed - 2137 £

Cost of inspections - 114 £

Cost of MOT - 35 £

Cost of oil and filter not provided by car dealer - 55 £

Total - 2667 £

[FTMDave]

OK, I have

- corrected the English

- split into paragraphs

- changed “I am giving you 14 days to respond” to “I am giving you 14 days to pay” (you don't want more aggressive responses from them, you want your money)

- added the list of what you are claiming at the end

- added after “£2667”, the words “less your £330 partial payment” (if this is wrong then cut it out and redo the mathematics).

 

Watch out that in your letter you ask for £2783 and in your list the amount is £2667. You need to make the amounts the same.

 

However, I think your letter is far too long. Not that that will harm you, there is simply no need. I have therefore prepared a shorter version. Even my shorter version is too long.

 

If you mention the £330 you accepted I think you should add the ridiculous intimidatory deadline you were given.

 

I have written LoCs, PoCs and taken people to county court – and won. But a long time ago! I suggest you wait all of tomorrow in case more experienced Site Team colleagues suggest changes. After all this delay 24 hours will change nothing. Then send your letter off on Wednesday. Make sure you get a free Certificate of Posting from the post office.

 

LOCb.pdf LOCa.pdf

[FTMDave]

Look what I've found!  Note the address the criminals were operating from:

 

https://www.tradingstandards.uk/news-policy/news-room/2017/leicester-men-sentenced-for-selling-dangerous-vehicles

 

This is from the Trading Standards site.  Therefore I suggest you add a bit to your sentence about trading standards:

 

I shall be referring this matter to the Leicestershire trading standards authorities and I am sure that they will be prepared to take the necessary action.  I'm also sure your mates Paul and Jignesh will be happy to describe to you what life in the nick is like.  I am claiming -

[Cyrylbea]

Thank you so much .  I appreciate highly your help .

So I should take of 330 £( what he gave me )  from total  , right ? 

I will wait for tomorrow and post it like advised.

All correspondence with them was by email so I will send it via email like before , if thats ok  ? .

 

Edited November 9, 2021 by FTMDave
Potential libel (my fault)

[German car shop]

Absolutely shocking thread dont know whether to laugh or cry.  Im just going to make a few points and then you can make your own decision.

 

 

 

She purchased a vehicle. (It was her boyfriend she came with not somebody who she payed £70 to). He's actually a mechanic who works on his own cars, A very nice guy. He inspected the car thoroughly before they decided to buy it.

 

She contacted us a few days later stating that her friend told her she has paid to much money for the car and she wants some money back or a refund. (She stated  a trade price) and couldnt understand recommended retail price is more than the trade price. She became aggressive when we tried to explain that we are a business so we buy at trade and sell at retail. She just couldnt comprehend it.

 

She soon claimed there was an issue with the car. As we would with any customer, we requested an inspection to ensure there is a fault (this is because we inspect our vehicles before they leave and what she was claiming just didnt add up). 

 

She wanted to have it done at a friends garage. She wouldnt allow an inspection anywhere else. We proposed we would bring it back and mot the vehicle, she refused.  We then booked it into an independant garage local to her to make it easier which she agreed to, then She missed the appointement and refused to take it anywhere but this particular garage. we went back and forth like this a few times. As you can imagine... alarm bells were ringing. 

 

She has not been threatened in any way. Its quite the opposite. I dont believe she is in the correct mental state, neither does her boyfriend. Shes aggressive, potentially bi-pola. She changes her mind every 5 minutes to the extent her own boyfriend rang us stating he cant stand her anymore. Nothing she says or does makes sense. He pleaded with us to offer some kind of gesture so she would stop. We did offer a gesture in full and final settlement, she agreed (with evidence). She was happy and we ended the matter. Within a day she had completely changed and she was asking for more money again (for the same thing). She threatened a bad review if we dont pay her more money.  

 

We requested evidence in writing various times. She wouldnt send it. Eventually she sent a report but she wouldnt allow us to obtain our own or independant inspection. Besides offering to collect the car for free. She claimed the car was illegal to drive and that she needs to recover the vehicle to her garage but in her report the mileage was signficiantly higher than when she first told us she doesnt drive the car.  High enough to know that the vehicle was being driven on a daily basis. She then sent us more paperwork from the same garage which showed more mileage incurred on the car. The entire time time she claimed the car was offroad and unable to be driven. 

 

She was quoting a ridicilous and inflated amount for work which didnt make any sense either. I sent her screenshots from euro car parts without trade discount and they were alot cheaper then the price she was asking for.

 

I would also like to add. We are not and have nothing to do with the previous tenants jignesh and paul.

 

They were previous tenants of this rented car pitch and you can confirm this by checking our company details on companies house. 

 

We have been selling cars for a long time and have plenty of happy customers. 

 

Unfortunately, especially with used cars, faults can occur and we always do our best to resolve them for our customers. We are an established business and customer satisfaction means alot to us. Normally when you offer a customer a resolution to their problem, they are happy to accept, unfortunately this wasnt the case with this customer. We have taken a copy of this thread due to the conflicting information she has provided compared to her e mails she originally sent to us.  If she wishes to take this further, our solicitors will be ready. 

 

Kind regards.

 

German car shop.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[FTMDave]

Cyrylbea,

 

so send the shorter LoC above.  You can add the bit about prison if you want, it's not really important as the dealer is monitoring the thread and knows what is being discussed.  You do need to recognise they have paid £330 and that is in the letter.  Yes, you can e-mail.

 

You need to sort out why the claim comes to £2783 and then later to £2667 before you send it..

 

Where you mention that you accepted £330 you need to add the deadline they gave you to accept or not.

 

[Cyrylbea]

The claim is actually 2667£ not 2783 £ , it was my mistake . As there was so many expenses  to add up. I sorted it out.

 

Ofcourse I will add that deadline bit.

 

Thanks

Edited November 9, 2021 by Cyrylbea