Lowell and Cabot

[skintandbroke]

Pah!

We've been receiving letters from Cabot and Lowell about so-called debts to their companies - alleged debts that they have bought off another company - or something like that - for a while now. The letters progressively get nastier, and they send them almost daily, saying things like.... as you have not responded to our last letter... (which we only received yesterday and we work during their opening hours!!).

the point of me typing this is to say that we sent the letters off to both companies saying that we do not acknowledge any debt to them and we want copies of the agreements, statements etc etc , and one of them sent us such a polite letter back saying that they will look into it within 21 days to 8 weeks. I am surprised at the complete change in tone in the letters (although they really need to spell check and proof read them before they send them out!). However, i have noted the 8 week deadline in my diary and will take it from there if there is no response until then.

Just a note to encourage you to write to the companies, they really shouldn't be allowed to do the things they do - especially without any evidence available initially.

Good luck everyone. I will keep you posted!

[djweeble]

Ignore the 8 weeks, it's drivel !

 

They have 12 (working) days to supply you with the information, after that they cannot take any action against you without the permission of the judge.

 

If they still haven't supplied the info after 30 days, they have comitted an offence. REPORT THEM

[dodgy]

Are you sure it is only 12 days, and not the 12 + 30 before they cannot enforce further action??

[version302003]

its 12 working days, after that they cant enforce it until they produce the agreement. After 1 calendar month on top of the 12 workings days they have committed an offence.

[dodgy]

Has it been proven in law that they cannot chase you after the 12 + 30 day period ??? thanx

[NailPost]

"Has it been proven in law that they cannot chase you after the 12 + 30 day period ??? thanx"

 

This is the law. Its set down in the Consumer Credit Act 1974. The debt collectors have to abide by the law same as everyone else. Stick to the timetable. If they default report them to trading standards and if they continue to write and demand money from you report them to the Office of Fair Trading.

 

Write to them and tell them, do not phone a debt collector ever, that unles they have written proof you owe them money you will not pay. They may decide to take you to court but they would have to persuade a judge of their right to collect - paperwork.

 

To summarise - they are trying it on!

[dodgy]

If they supplied the information, say after 60 days, are we in a position to say they have no right to collect at all.

[djweeble]

I think that they then have a right to persue the debt, but only with the permission of a judge, and no judge would look favourably on their initial failure to provide the information in the required timescale.

[skintandbroke]

So what do i do with the other company who haven't yet responded to the letter which I sent almost 2 weeks ago? Do i do the same with them and write to say that they've gone over the 12 days, or is that 12 days from them responding to my initial letter?

 

This Forum is a great help - i would've just waited for the 8 weeks otherwise. Thanks for all yur help, its much appreciated.

[Turnaround]

No, just let the clock tick.

Having served the CCA, and the initial 12 days have now passed the alleged debt is now only enforceable with a judges consent. And if they don’t supply the documents in a further month then they have committed an offence.

If in the future they produce the documents they would still have to get the courts permission to pursue it, and explain why they committed the offence in the first place and as I understand it they would incur a hefty fine.

 Also, as the 12 day period has elapsed they can’t take any action, harass or threaten you.

 However, having said that, from experience these companies they will keep harassing you. Keep all correspondence as proof, as it might be required at a later date, and report them to OFT. It might seem a waste of time, but if you highlight the fact they have a duty of care to the public then they seem to act.

 If you read other post about these and similar companies you will then get a feel for their tactics and get to understand your rights.

 You are now in the driving seat, it is for them to prove you owe the alleged debt before they can take you to court and not for you to prove you don’t.

 Keep us posted if you have any problems

 

[skintandbroke]

So, who do i report them to- and how please?

Is there a letter template to use? I haven't looked yet - or do i draft one myself? I can include copies of the papers they have sent to me.

One evensays 'thank you for your recent payment' - i haven't paid them anything! I'm not really willing to call them about it though incase its a nasty ploy on their behalf - although i don't think they would've been smart enought to think of doing that!!

I will have a look now at other useful tips but feel free to throw pointers my way!!

Many thanks,

[JonCris]

You may not believe this but their "thanks for the payment" is!

a ploy it's an attempt to imply that you have now recognised the debt.

If they try it on ask them how you made the alleged payment.

Make sure you keep any bank or credit card statements so you can prove they are attempting to mislead the court.

[skintandbroke]

Ok, thanks for that advice. I don't really want to call them though. THe 12 days has expired now so I will report them.

I've had a look at the letters on the main page of Debt Collectors and Bailiffs and there doesn't seem to be a template relevant to my complaint to the OFT, so I wil draft one and include as much information as possible. Does anyone have one that they've already done for some pointers for me please?

 

I'm so excited about this, the Forum is great, I've just sent 4 claims to Court for my bank accounts and my partner has just told me that YES are sending him letters about a car from ages ago. Its great for the little person to have a voice - which is heard by many! Love it!! Thanks.

[JonCris]

NO! don't phone them

 

If you must make contact put everything in writing & send special delivery

[skintandbroke]

Is this any good?

To Whom It May Concern:

Re: Cabot Financial

I wish to complain about Cabot Financial and their methods of communication.

I have been receiving letters from Cabot Financial since April 2006, with reference to a debt which they state they have obtained from another company called Creation. I have no recollection of having a debt with Creation, and am unaware as to whom they are. The initial letter dated 19th April 2006 was for an outstanding balance of 711.42 and requested immediate payment. As I knew nothing about this company or so-called debt I chose not to respond to this letter.

Further letters continued to arrive, with increased debt amounts, increases which they have added to the ‘final amount owing’ from the Creation account: 10th May 2006 = 736.92, 8th September = 755.63 this letter offered a 40% reduction to make the outstanding balance 302.25, again I chose to ignore this letter and their threats as they did not have any evidence that the debt belonged to me. 16th November 2006 =766.54, with a threat of moving the debt to their ‘collections’ department. 24th November 2006 = 767.63, with a notice of “last opportunity to resolve this debt before we proceed with further collection proceedings”.

It was at this time that I was introduced to the Consumer Action Group website, where I have become a member and have been given advice on how to approach Cabot’s enquiries to resolve the debt. Therefore on the 21st November 2006 I wrote to Cabot Financial stating:

“I do not acknowledge any debt to your company. I require you to supply the following documentation before I will correspond further on this matter.

1. You must supply me with a true copy of the alleged agreement you refer to. This is my right under your obligation to supply a copy of the agreement under the legislation contained within s.78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 (s.77 (1) for fixed sum credit) - your obligation also extends in providing a statement of account. I enclose a 1.00 cheque in payment of the statutory fee.

2. A signed true copy of the deed of assignment of the above referenced agreement that you allege exists.

3. You are notified that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not under S189 of the CCA 1974.

Non-compliance with my request is a criminal offence under the above Act and will result in a report being submitted to the relevant statutory authorities.

As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.

Take note at this stage, that any legal action you may contemplate will be both vigorously defended and contested.”

A response from Cabot Financial was received on the 28th November 2006, stating that they have contacted Providan National Bank regarding this enquiry, and that a response will be given within 21 days, although archiving can take up to 8 weeks. (I do not know who Providan are or why they have become involved).

A further letter was received from Cabot on the 29th November informing me that interest will continue to accrue onto this account until a payment plan is agreed.

I wish to contest Cabot Financials actions, as it is my understanding that Cabot have 12 working days to provide me with the information, under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. The 12 days has now elapsed, so I believe that a Judge must give permission from now on to enforce the debt.

It s also my understanding that complete details must be forwarded to me within an additional 30 days, not the 8 weeks as stated in their letter, which expires on the 3rd January 2007.

I am therefore writing to complain of the harassment and distress caused by Cabot Financial, with reference to an alleged outstanding debt which they cannot prove I owe. If they are about to pursue a ‘debt’ over an 8 month period they should have easy access to the accompanying paperwork and signed agreements, and should indeed provide these in the first instance of attempted debt collections.

I expect I shall be contacting you and then the Office of Fair Trading after the 3rd January to inform you of the outcome that Cabot Financial have no grounds to prove I owe this debt, and that the action they have taken against me has been unlawful.

 

Yours faithfully

[Seminole]

If it helps, Creation are a store card provider. I know they run (or at least ran) the Selfridges store card for them.

I would be inclined to hold fire on your letter until the 30 days are up. That's when Cabot will have committed a criminal offence and someone like Trading Standards ought to really start rattling their cage.

There is plenty of evidence that Cabot routinely fail to comply with CCA requests within the statutory timescale. I think every people should complain every time they fail to do so and mention that they theirs is apparently not an exceptional experience.

Oh and Providian are a doorstep lender, they're behind the Vanquis (40% interest credit card) and the wonderful and defunct Yes Car Credit. They're an enormous company with an interesting ethos.

[JonCris]

seminole couldn't agree more.

When they don't comply with the law we should report them. It may seem a futile exercise by some but if everyone does it the authorities may eventualy get the idea that their regulations are being ignored on a vast scale

[skintandbroke]

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for your help there. I will take note, and wait until the 30 days are up and then report them, and will also add the information that you have added.

What bothers me now, is that i did have store cards a few years ago - so what if i DO owe this debt? Can they still chase it after the 30 days or does it get written off or anything?

Please help.

Thanks

[Seminole]

The debt isn't written off but they can't enforce it through the court without producing the documents AND getting permission from a judge.

[JonCris]

skint

 

How old do you think the debt is?

[skintandbroke]

Hi

after the 42 days and if i've not heard anything i will report them to OFT,

then IF they DO write to me, do i just write back to them and say that i know my rights and that they have breached the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and that they have to apply to a Court to pursue this further.

( and possible quote relevant jargon to them)? (even stating that the judge will query the delay in them delivering the correct papers, and also the chances that they will get a hefty fine).

Is this going to work?

Is it likely that they would go to a court if this was the case and then is it likely that the Judge would allow it?

I feel like i kind of know what I should be doing, but not sure if i'm going about it the right way.

Please help a little more.........

I'm not even sure there is a debt!

I know i had a credit card or a store card a few years back, maybe 3 or 4 years ago, but am sure it was all paid off.

It only had a £200 limit, so this is why i'm confused cos the 'debt' that Cabot are after is for £750 plus.

I've read about other charges on this forum, but i don't even know if its related.

I am hoping that they will either give up on me or come up with the agreement so it can be taken from there.

[JonCris]

Sorry Skint sounds a daft question then why are you paying anything at all!

 

You can't remember the debt & they can't produce any paper work. It ain't enforcable so stop paying & demand your money back

 

PS if it turns out to be a Cap One card then the penalties can add up at an alarming rate.

[skintandbroke]

Hi JonCris

 

I haven't paid anything! ( I won't!!).

 

I've been ignoring their letters since April 2005 (that's when I started to keep and file the letters anyway) and then in October I came across this site and then i wrote to them saying I don't acknowldge any debt - so really, i just want them to either leave me alone or prove it's my debt - which i really think they won't be able to do.

 

So i suppose i just want clarification that they've been chasing me for about a year for a debt they can't provide papers for, and when it's confirmed that they really can't prove there is a debt that they will stop writing to me about it.

 

Will it all be over in January???

 

Thanks,

[chip76]

Providian are actually what is now known as Monument (taken over by Barclaycard I think?), and they're pretty run-of-the-mill.

The dodgy characters you're thinking of are Provident - behind the most rip-off credit card on the face of the earth and some alleged outrageous practices in the field of door-step lending (aka legalised loan-sharking).

They're a charming bunch!

[Seminole]

Oops, sorry.

Thanks for correcting me.