Abbey Windows Ltd -Double Glazing- threatening to remove windows

[Mildewy]

Thanks for your help, busy day ahead.

[BankFodder]

By the way, his name is James Stuart - not Stewart

 

 

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/03531430/officers

[BankFodder]

I just noticed this very recent review on Google reviews in which the reviewer says that they had even called him to get him to change his review.

They seem to be very well regarded – but when you read this kind of story it tends to make you wonder 

 

Quote

15 hours ago

I wondering from where is coming those 5 stars what I believe is frends of them or people who been called and asked to change the review how I been called from them to change my review, but my experience was the worst experience ever with Abbey Window from the start to end of the job. First with the measurement what first time was 25m square and the end the right measurement was 14.5m Square what was confirmed in email, so be careful when they measuring any work. After this with the survey after when I drove to work and back 100 miles they called me on that day that the survey not will be happening and the appointment been moved to next week . If you people still want to work with them , please ask every little detail how and what they will use for cladding because nobody tells that the cladding not including insulation under cladding just cladding. So my star is 1 star because I can't do 0.

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=abbey+windows+reading+reviews&oq=abbey+w&aqs=chrome.0.69i59j0i457j69i59j69i57j46j0j69i60l2.4711j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#lrd=0x48769b0425dfc923:0xaa4afec8b6874d0,1,,,

 

When you post up your review, please will post a link to it

[BankFodder]

Another review here as well

 

https://www.trustpilot.com/review/abbeywindows.co.uk?stars=1

[Mildewy]

This is interesting, though not surprising. I am thinking carefully what to write.  I am extremely angry at how we have been treated and want to choose my words carefully.

[BankFodder]

Well post up your draft and we can have a look at it.

You are absolutely right, I don't think you want to let your anger show through. It needs to be very measured but very clear that you have got it worked out, that you have a plan and that you mean business.

[Mildewy]

The Trespass response will go this afternoon.  My intention for the review is to calm down and put something together over the weekend that I can upload to a number of consumer sites.

[Mildewy]

Contacted the police who were quick to respond and supportive.

 

Please see the latest email from Abbey Windows

 

Quote

 

I have today spoken with Which? who I believe will be in touch to confirm that our contractual position is correct and you need to reinstate the 25% deposit for the bays.

 

Having spoken to the Which? today they confirmed that the DRO found in our favour and endorsed the offer that we put forward back in April of this year. If the DRO had found in your favour we would have had to pay their fee which we have not so I am unsure how you believe that they have found in your favour. Throughout we have demonstrated that we have tried to resolve this dispute but you have move goalposts and done nothing but intentionally obstructed us completing our works and now you continue to obstruct us collecting our goods.

 

You are wrongly withholding our product having not paid for it so I ask either reinstate the deposit and let us get on and complete our works or give us our property back. 

 

If the deposit is not reinstated by close of play on Monday we will continue with the collection of our goods on the 23rd December. This is in now ay a threat but we need to bring this matter to a close and you cannot withhold product which you have not paid a penny for.  All we ask is that you allow us to take our product back then you are free to have another contractor install the windows. We will not leave the windows in your possession. 

 

Once again I will let you speak to Which? for them to confirm their position but we will continue with our plans regardless of your threats.

 

 

I spoke to Which yesterday who of course said no such thing and have asked to be copied into all future correspondence.

 

Much to my surprise he actually make what I believe could the the right solution for both parties i.e. they take the windows back and we get someone who knows what they're doing.  This would be the perfect solution for both sides.  However, note the totally unrealistic timescale of COP Monday.  How could I go about this without being messed around again?

 

I have of course refuted all the allegations he has made in the email.

 

I'm thinking of posting the following review:-

 

On August 2019, Abbey Windows installed some windows and a door.  Over the years I have used a number of windows companies who have been very good.  Unfortunately in my opinion the products and service from Abbey Windows fell well short of previous works.  A local company came to see the install and actually accused me of installing the windows (I was offended as I think I would have done a better job).  The most disappointing part of the install were the two bay windows, they are completely the wrong size, they remain unfinished and the window sills and brickwork are all over the place.  Recently Abbey Windows have threatened to remove the windows the day before Christmas Eve, unless I pay an additional deposit.  I feel that the; installation, communication and service of Abbey Windows has been woeful.  I will never use this company again.

[BankFodder]

Please can you tell us exactly what the police said.

 

Also he claims that the ombudsman the service found in his favour. Please can you comment on that

[BankFodder]

In your proposed review, you make no mention of the ombudsman's complaint and the ombudsman is finding. Why not?

Furthermore, you don't say that you have now contacted the police and told them about the threat you have received. I don't think you should mention the comments made by the local install company unless you have evidence of that.

You are saying that it is in your opinion that Abbey fell short on quality. I don't think that this is compelling. If the ombudsman found in your favour, then you need to say that having gone to the ombudsman, the ombudsman found in your favour and agreed that the installation was not in conformity with the agreed specifications and also that the quality of the work was substandard.

[Mildewy]

He makes all sorts of accusations, I sometimes think we are talking about totally different things.

 

As you predicted the police consider this to be civil matter, however, trespass and criminal damage isn't and we can call them.

 

I am pleased he suggests taking the windows and we both move on as I think this is the best solution.

 

I will include the Ombudsman, I just forgot.

 

I will have another think about the wording.

[BankFodder]

Well taking the windows is pretty well what I suggested in an earlier post when I proposed that you sent a letter to that effect – although it would have to be when you are ready to do it – which means that when you have an alternative installation lined up.

Also, I have already suggested that you should hold him liable for those expenses.

Could you please put up the conclusion of the ombudsman here. We haven't seen it I don't think. You have only put up the two choices that were proposed. I think I would like to see the actual conclusion that was arrived at before the choices/remedies were suggested

 

 

Did you send him the letter that I suggested? As well as the trespass notice

 

[Mildewy]

This is the full Ombudsman response.

 

Thank you for your patience whilst I have been reviewing the case file in its entirety and discussing the details of the case further. I can confirm I have now received the relevant information from both parties to enable me to provide a response to the dispute in full.

 

As you are aware, my role is to impartially investigate the case and in the initial stages seek to informally resolve the dispute through conciliation by weighing up the evidence and impartially reaching a decision. It may be the case I believe the complaint should be upheld and request the business puts it right, or I may feel their offer is reasonable and in line with your legal entitlement. Alternatively, I may decide the business has not acted incorrectly and decline the case.

 

I can confirm that I have reviewed the complete case file including the evidence and information supplied by both parties. Please be assured that I have understood and considered each of the claims put forward within your application. The case outcome reflects an independent assessment of the case file and in some cases, the outcome may not be to the satisfaction of the parties, however, we have a duty to remain impartial. Accordingly, there may be instances where the case outcome differs from expectation.

 

Having reviewed the case file, I understand that you are claiming that the two bay windows purchased from the business, have not been made to the agreed upon size. In addition, where the sizing has been agreed to be rectified by the business, you have advised that you are seeking the canopy to be white and the base should be a timber insulated construction clad in white UPVC and a single gallows bracket.

 

To clarify, I am not in a position to comment or assist in the trader’s pursuit of 25% of the contract, or in the consumer’s withholding of this. My decision below, is based on the merits of the claim and particular issues raised. As such, any award potentially made will be considered in line with the survey amounting to £7954.00 total, and I will not be commenting on the financial aspect of the dispute where it can only be reviewed by the appropriate bodies.

 

Having corresponded with the business further, they have confirmed the following offers:

 

Maintaining the offer to install to the size and specification outlined in the survey, with a white canopy. Having discussed this with the business, they have confirmed that this is possible. If the consumer were to accept, the details of this would also be discussed between the parties prior to installation including any samples; OR

In recognition that the current installation is not as per the contract provided, a price reduction of 20% of the cost of the two bay windows, amounting to a total offer of £976.80 with no further works carried out by the business. The consumer then remains free to use this award as they wish. To clarify, price reductions are an alternative remedy to repeat performance (remedial works) and are assessed having regard to the nature and extent of the issues, and the functional and aesthetic impact of the issue itself.

 

I confirm that I will uphold the business’s offers for the reasons outlined below.

 

For the purposes of clarity, it should be noted that it would not be reasonable at this stage for the consumer to make an award for an event that has not/may not occur. It is reasonably expected that brickwork will need to withstand different types of weather, and we cannot at this moment in time, pre-empt that damage will occur by virtue of water running down onto the brickwork. The pictures that have been provided do indicate water marks, however, would not necessarily give rise to an award at this stage where no quantifiable loss has been incurred which can therefore be assessed.

 

In addition, where guttering did not form a part of the original contract, it is therefore expected an additional cost be incurred for this. Although I recognise that the business have a duty to carry out an installation with reasonable care and skill, it does not follow that additional work outside of the scope of the contract has to be provided without charge. The business has advised that they are willing to provide a quote for any additional guttering work, should the consumer wish to have this carried out.

 

With regard to your request for compensation, I must outline that a breach of contract in itself is not grounds alone for compensation. As also outlined in our Consumer Guide, compensation will only be considered where it arises as a natural breach of the contract; any losses must be reasonably foreseeable by both parties. A breach of the contract alone is not grounds for compensation; the claimant must show that a loss has been suffered due directly to that breach, be it financial or non-pecuniary. The party suffering the loss must show that they have taken action to keep said losses to a minimum (known as mitigating losses). Any claim should, in the main, be quantifiable. Compensation for delay and inconvenience may be awarded, however, where awards are made they are normally modest where often the Courts will not make such awards. We also do not negotiate a sum either, and do not automatically improve on any previous offers made. However, I recognise that each case is considered on the basis of its own merits.

 

It has been noted that the business has maintained an offer for the works to be completed (albeit not to the consumer’s satisfaction) throughout the complaint. I do not therefore consider it reasonable that an award be made on the basis of delays where it has been evidenced the retailer had attempted to resolve the complaint prior to the Ombudsman. In addition, the offers outlined above have been made in line with the consumer’s entitlement under law.

 

For the reasons outlined above, where the offers that have been made fall in line with your legal entitlement I therefore confirm I will uphold these in full and final settlement of all issues brought arising from your complaint and will be closing the case on that basis. We ask that should you wish to accept either offer, this would be full and final settlement of all heads of claim and that you notify me within a reasonable time period so that I can communicate this to the business on your behalf. The business will then arrange the logistics of the settlement directly with yourself, however, should there be any issues relating to the settlement please be assured that we have an Aftercare department who will assist.

However, as the consumer you are not bound by any decision made by Dispute Resolution Ombudsman and therefore remain free to pursue your complaint through other channels if you so wish. For more information on this, we would recommend contacting the Citizens Advice Bureau on 03454 04 05 06 or on their website https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/about-us/contact-us/contact-us/consumer-service/.

 

Kind regards,

 

Going forward I now copy the Which Trusted Trader Team into all of the emails.

 

I spoke to Which on Friday afternoon, and they are of course very careful in their choice of words, however, at no point did they tell me they agree with his assertion that a further 25% deposit should be paid and as to his belief that the Ombudsman agrees with him you can clearly see that the Ombudsman ducked that one entirely.

 

On August 2019, Abbey Windows installed some windows and a door.  Over the years I have used a number of windows companies who have been very good.  Unfortunately in my opinion the products and service from Abbey Windows fell well short of previous works.  A local company came to see the install and actually accused me of installing the windows (I was offended as I think I would have done a better job).  The most disappointing part of the install were the two bay windows, they are completely the wrong size, they remain unfinished and the window sills and brickwork are all over the place.  Despite a ruling by the Ombudsman that supported the windows being installed as per the contract; recently Abbey Windows have threatened to remove the windows the day before Christmas Eve, unless I pay an additional deposit.  I feel that the; installation, communication and service of Abbey Windows has been woeful.  I will never use this company again.

[Mildewy]

The above is my second attempt at the review.

 

I will send the letter regarding replacement of his windows tomorrow.

[BankFodder]

I'm trying to understand where in the report of the ombudsman which you have posted above, it actually says that they were at fault.
It doesn't say that they were not at fault – it simply seems to give a load of rambling gobbledygook and avoids actually pronouncing a decision as to whether the windows were correctly installed or incorrectly installed and it also seems to avoid pronouncing a decision on the quality of the work.

Which ombudsman was this? I suspect that this is a member of the window installers professional body

[BankFodder]

I feel very strongly that you are dealing not with an ombudsman but with an apparently independent arbitrator which has been appointed by the window installers professional body and that person may well feel that the window installer is wrong, but they are not prepared to say so because they are all members of the same club.

In short, unless you tell me different, I think you are being shafted.

[Mildewy]

I was amazed when I saw the conclusion.  It does say that there is an aftercare department that will assist if the situation isn't resolved.  I have tried to contact this department and I am yet to receive a reply.  My understanding of the two choices is:-

 

1. Accept the windows with a slight reduction in price.

 

2. Install the windows as per the contract.

 

The fact that he has come back said he wants to be free of the contract says to me that fulfilling the contract will be expensive and he would rather not do it.

 

I have said I will take legal advice on how to proceed with regard to removal of the windows and I will send your second letter.

 

 

[BankFodder]

Please could you answer the questions I put as to who is this ombudsman?

[Mildewy]

Ombudsman

0203 954 1872

0333 241 3209

Follow us
@OmbudsmanTweets

 Premier House, First Floor, 1 5 Argyle Way, Stevenage, Hertfordshire. SG1 2AD
Telephone calls to and from the Ombudsman may be recorded for quality and training purposes.

 

Again I just assumed they were the right people as they were suggested by Which.

[BankFodder]

Thank you. I was wrong – they are not an industry arbitrator – but despite this, I think the report is hopeless. It's completely ambiguous and never actually makes the decision as to fault.

This is not at all what you want and it really scarcely helps you at all.

The ambiguity of it is just extraordinary and if this is the quality of what Which is recommending then I think people should steer well clear.

I think that you have got even more difficult job now because there is no clear decision by the so-called ombudsman.

The only suggestion in the report that the arbitrator thought that the installer was at fault is that they have suggested a reduced price – but that's it.

Certainly it seems that the issue of the 25% payment has come up and the ombudsman has refused to make any finding on that.

I really don't know what you want to do. It sounds to me as if you want to give in – and of course that's up to you.

However, I've already suggested that you should stand your ground, that you should get proper independent assessments and independent quotations for remedying the work and installing windows to your proper specification.
Presumably it's your home – and I don't see why you should be obliged to have your own home with something that you didn't ask for.

I also don't see that you should have to pay anything more than was originally agreed.

I should certainly send the trespass warning to the installer and I would send a copy to the police. At the bottom of the trespass warning, I would make it clear that it has been copied out to the police.

The review that you are proposing to put up is in my view rather tame – but that's up to you.

As already suggested, I think you should make it clear to the installer that he can have his windows back that he will have to wait until they have been replaced by somebody who complies with the contract and does a decent job. If he doesn't like it then tell him to see you in the County Court and you will be happy to defend. I'm doubt very much whether he has got the bottle to do it.

I think it's about time that you made a decision about the kind of stand you want to make. You got all the information. I appreciate that you want a quiet life and you want it all to finish – but I don't see why you should be bullied by this company and it seems to me that you are being bullied by them.

If you I would send the ombudsman service and SAR and hopefully you will get other information that hasn't been disclosed to you which reveals much more detail about the ombudsman's decision

[Mildewy]

You are of course correct and I intend of follow the course of action you have suggested.

[BankFodder]

I suggest you start looking very hard for suitably qualified window installers from Monday.

If there is some professional trade body then maybe you could approach them for contacts and the idea of getting people who are trusted by Which is probably a good idea even though it seems to have backfired on this occasion.

I think you certainly need to have the independent assessments of the existing work and quotations for new work sorted out very quickly and then provide them to Abbey.

I would suggest also that you write to Which and inform them of the threats you have been receiving and also provide them with copies of them. Do the same thing with the ombudsman. You need to let as many people as possible know what is going on.

[Mildewy]

I know a reputable builder who has suggested a couple of good local companies and I have used a couple of national companies in the past who have been very good.

 

I have passed everything to Which, who have been very good and are doing their best to remain objective and supportive to both sides.

 

I have said that we would welcome the opportunity to put our case to the court.

[BankFodder]

Good. However you need to make sure that the companies you deal with are well established and if possible you should try and get references from customers that they have dealt with.

It is very strange because Abbey Windows seem to have a very good reputation and things have gone badly wrong here. Of course the real test of any company is how they handle things when it all goes wrong – and this certainly seemed to be a case of things having gone wrong and they are then going on to handle it very badly.

It seems a great shame that a company like this is prepared to sacrifice its reputation so easily – and the threats they are making are really quite extraordinary. Maybe James Stuart is simply suffering the effects of a difficult year!

[Hammy1962]

Whoa BF. Be careful. You could be heading for sympathy. 
 

H