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Natwest Bank Transfer Fraud Call HMRC Please help ***Refund in Full***


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Hiya,

 

Hoping someone can help me,

I recently received a call from a HMRC phone number and made a transfer as I believed it to be HMRC as it was their phone number, it turns out it was a fraud call.  I realised about 30 mins after the call ended and reported it to the bank and police immediately

 

i have just received a response from the bank advising the below, is there anything else at all I can do?

 

Thank you in advance for your help.

 

 

Further to our telephone conversation we have now completed a detailed investigation into your case which involved liaising with our teams and the beneficiary bank(s) and we are satisfied that the relevant industry procedures have been adhered to.

 

We have been advised by the beneficiary bank(s) that there were no funds available in the beneficiary account to be returned to you so I am sorry to advise that we are unable to reimburse you for your loss.

 

I know this is not the outcome you were hoping for and if you wish to discuss the matter further, please get in touch with us on the above number to advise us of any additional information surrounding your case that you have not disclosed to us already or raise a complaint.

 

You can also visit natwest.com and complete the online complaint form.

We will endeavour to respond to a complaint within 15 business days

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Well obviously we are very sorry that you have been conned like this. I'm not sure that there is much we will be able to advise although maybe somebody will come along.

Can you tell us how much you lost?

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It found NatWest is the worst for dealing with scam complaints, with the Ombudsman overturning 69% of its decisions in the year to May 28, 2019.

 

The Sun has previously spoken to gardener David Hunt who lost nearly £10,000 when scammers pretended to be from HMRC - and his bank NatWest refused to payout.

 

Meanwhile, grandmother Jo Wilson, had her £40,000 life savings stolen by scammers posing as staff from NatWest, which also wouldn't give her a refund.

 

https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/12693677/natwest-worst-bank-scam-claims-valid-complaints-rejected/

We could do with some help from you.

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How did the scam work...they simply rang you up and asked for £998.00 and you paid ...no questions asked no checks ?

We could do with some help from you.

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Many thanks, I do want to take it further and to the I'm ombudsman if needed just not sure where to start.

 

Here are the majority of the details.

 

Received a phone call from a person named Steven Lobo, from HMRC high courts, He advised all calls will be recorded and passed to the courts

 

Advised his badge number was 254156

Advised Court Case ID was DC7010/R

Advised Warrant number was 53A7542P

 

They advised they where calling from HMRC high courts in relation to a tax evasion to the value of £3478, they advised either I or my employer had not completed my tax returns correctly, I advised them I have always been fully employed up until a year ago so my employer should be held responsible not me

 

they insisted it is upto me to check my tax returns are correct and not my employer therefore I am liable, I also asked them why I had not received any communication from them previously and they advised a letter was sent on the 10th of August and they had received no response which is why it has been passed to the high courts.

 

I then asked them to confirm that this is not a fraudulent call, they then advised me to go to the HMRC GOV website, and find the high courts phone number which was 020 7947 7772, they then advised me they would call back in a conference call using the above number and asked me to hang up, so I did and then they called me and the above number was displayed on my phone.  The original number they called from was 0161 250 5092, when the 020 number matched HMRC this was the point I was convinced it really was them.

 

They then advised me that a police officer would be knocking my door within the next 30 Minutes to server the warrant for court and if I did not appear in court I would be arrested.

They advised they would be locking all the below

 

Credit Cards

Bank Accounts

Mortgage

Withdraw Driving License

Passports

And more but I cannot remember

 

They advised I will also be liable for all court charges, solicitor costs etc.

 

Advised they may be able withdraw the case if immediate payment is made

 

They would not accept Credit Card

 

They appointed Solicitor named Adriana Lucyna Mirga to hold money

 

I advised I could pay 1400 at most

 

They walked me through the process of setting up online payee transfer

 

Warning popped up, I advised them, they advised this is because it is going to a solicitor and not directly to HMRC and would be using an Escrow account and they directed me to HMRC again which explained what this type of account was.

 

I then paid £998 as this was the maximum allowable via Natwest

 

Could not make any further payments so they asked me to call online banking and arrange the payment via them.

They advised me to not tell them it was HMRC which is what flagged it up as fraud for me.

 

 

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Oh dear.  The HMRC will never ring you - they will always write to you. Never ever go on a conferance call as they can control your phone once connected, to make the scam appear real.

 

 

Frederickson - CCA Sent 11/4/07 - Lost - Claiming back from post office

Connaught Collections - CCA Sent 11/4/07 - No Agreement - returned to client

Lowell - CCA sent 11/4/07 - No agreement - returned to client

Moorcroft - CCA Sent 11/4/07 - No Agreement - returned to client

Red Castle - CCA Sent 11/4/07 - Copy returned but no T&C's

Robinson Way - CCA Sent 16/5/07

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They then advised me that a police officer would be knocking my door within the next 30 Minutes to server the warrant for court

 

I would have waited for the warrant....and ask them to confirm my address which it would be served at.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group The National Consumer Service

 

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6 minutes ago, borisbeaver said:

Oh dear.  The HMRC will never ring you - they will always write to you. Never ever go on a conferance call as they can control your phone once connected, to make the scam appear real.

 

 

Yep I know this now after the event 😭

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This was quite prevalent in the US known as the IRS scam where there was an arrest warrant if you didn't pay there and then.  It gradually moved to to UK.  I know you've been caught out, an elderly friend of mine also got scammed this way, but this is a warning to everyone - please spread the word.

 

Plenty of video's on youtube, even scammers calling police officers at their place of work.

Frederickson - CCA Sent 11/4/07 - Lost - Claiming back from post office

Connaught Collections - CCA Sent 11/4/07 - No Agreement - returned to client

Lowell - CCA sent 11/4/07 - No agreement - returned to client

Moorcroft - CCA Sent 11/4/07 - No Agreement - returned to client

Red Castle - CCA Sent 11/4/07 - Copy returned but no T&C's

Robinson Way - CCA Sent 16/5/07

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I'm afraid you're not getting much help here – and I expect that there may not be much solid advice that we can give you. It's terrible and I'm very sorry for the loss – and also I expect that it has made you feel very bad and undermine your confidence as well.

Would you mind me asking you a bit about your profile – gender? Age – within say, a 10 year band – 40-50, 50-60, et cetera.
It's simply that this kind of information might help others to could happen to come across this thread.

It seems to me that you need to make a complaint to your bank about their lack of security because they have a duty to monitor these kinds of things and if this was an unusual transfer then I would have thought that they would want to ascertain the name of the recipient account holder.

I know that on my bank now, you have to put in the name of the recipient and I suppose that it does a check and then comes back to you with a confirmation that you can go ahead.

Anyway, you have nothing to lose. Make a complaint to your bank – I'm sure they will knock you back – and then you should go to the ombudsman.

I'm afraid don't hold your breath – but you should certainly try.

Be careful when the bank gives you their final response. Read it carefully because you may well find that it isn't exactly what you're complaining about. Thanks frequently take your complaint, and then distort it in a way which suits their own purposes and then come back at you and tell you that this is what you complained about – I know that this is not the result you are expecting… Blah blah blah.

There are nasty bunch. They are almost as bad as the fraudsters.

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Oh no, I am so sorry, I've been called numerous times by this outfit, it's an absolute con.  The way they threaten arrest over the phone, is very intimidating.

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We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

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1 hour ago, BankFodder said:

I'm afraid you're not getting much help here – and I expect that there may not be much solid advice that we can give you. It's terrible and I'm very sorry for the loss – and also I expect that it has made you feel very bad and undermine your confidence as well.

Would you mind me asking you a bit about your profile – gender? Age – within say, a 10 year band – 40-50, 50-60, et cetera.
It's simply that this kind of information might help others to could happen to come across this thread.

It seems to me that you need to make a complaint to your bank about their lack of security because they have a duty to monitor these kinds of things and if this was an unusual transfer then I would have thought that they would want to ascertain the name of the recipient account holder.

I know that on my bank now, you have to put in the name of the recipient and I suppose that it does a check and then comes back to you with a confirmation that you can go ahead.

Anyway, you have nothing to lose. Make a complaint to your bank – I'm sure they will knock you back – and then you should go to the ombudsman.

I'm afraid don't hold your breath – but you should certainly try.

Be careful when the bank gives you their final response. Read it carefully because you may well find that it isn't exactly what you're complaining about. Thanks frequently take your complaint, and then distort it in a way which suits their own purposes and then come back at you and tell you that this is what you complained about – I know that this is not the result you are expecting… Blah blah blah.

There are nasty bunch. They are almost as bad as the fraudsters.

Hiya,

 

Thanks for the feedback, I will be compiling a letter to the bank and see where I get, some key points I am going to include in the letter are:-

 

  • Why should liability be down to just me?
  • Banks notification not good enough, why have a continue button, the notification pops up majority of the time when making a payment to anyone?
  • How was the receiving account setup
  • How quickly did they notify the receiving bank of the fraud
  • Where did money go from the receiving account
  • It is Natwest's processes that have broken down to allow this to happen in the first place
  • If account is not an authorised account why not make the transfer a bit slower to allow time to reverse

 

If anyone can think of anything else to add please let me know :-)

 

Age is 40-50 and Male :-)

 

Many thanks again for your help.

 

Edited by waz70
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16 minutes ago, waz70 said:

Hiya,

 

Thanks for the feedback, I will be compiling a letter to the bank and see where I get, some key points I am going to include in the letter are:-

 

  • Why should liability be down to just me?
  • Banks notification not good enough, why have a continue button, the notification pops up majority of the time when making a payment to anyone?
  • How was the receiving account setup
  • How quickly did they notify the receiving bank of the fraud
  • Where did money go from the receiving account
  • It is Natwest's processes that have broken down to allow this to happen in the first place
  • If account is not an authorised account why not make the transfer a bit slower to allow time to reverse

 

 

 

 

  • All British banks are well aware of this kind of fraud now and most banks have in place a means of verifying the name of the payee and that it is indeed the intended recipient. It seems that this bank does not have this in place although you did not realise this and you relied on the bank's security systems which were either not in place or which have failed.
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god you fell for every trick in the book...

 

don't mess around, the Natwest banking group are by far the very worst for ever getting any refunds of any kind out of,  let alone these HMRC scams that they have been warned about over their refunding refusal conduct by the FOS already.

 

goto the FOS now

ring them and tell them what is going on.

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please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Yes. You must complain to the bank first and get their final response. You could try going to the FOS directly as well but I wouldn't be at all surprised if they tell you to go back to the bank

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The HMRC scam is just one of the many APP [Authorised Push Payment] scams going around. NatWest has signed up to the "Authorised Push Payment Scam Code".

 

https://personal.natwest.com/personal/fraud-and-security/app-code.html

 

In general banks are required by the Code to reimburse unless they can show that you have been "grossly negligent". They might argue that by ignoring the 'warning box' that popped up you had been grossly negligent, but if it were me i would argue that the scammers explanation of why I could ignore it was part of the scam of which I was a victim.

 

I found the explanation of what you should do on the 'Which?' website useful

 

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/what-to-do-if-youre-the-victim-of-a-bank-transfer-app-scam#:~:text=What is an 'authorised push,one belonging to a scammer.

 

Do as much research as you can before submitting your complaint.

 

Good luck.

Edited by Ethel Street
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That is very useful information about the Push Payment Scam Code. You should refer to this specifically in your complaint to NatWest – and again to the FOS.

You should make it clear to NatWest that as they are signatories to the code then they have treated you unfairly by not implementing it.

https://www.business.natwest.com/business/security/app-code.html

 

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I will do, I do not think their pop up message is enough when making a payment, if you are at the point of setting up a payment you are already believing you are paying a legitimate company or person, and then all they are doing is putting the decision into the victims hands to alleviate their responsibility in the matter.

 

I will compile a letter hopefully tomorrow and put a copy on here for everyone's comments if that's ok :-)

 

 

Thanks again

 

 

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as per the which advice about APP scams

you have already been refused by nastywest

get into the FOS now

there is no need to further waste your time with any more complaint letters to the bank.

 

the longer you leave it

the further your money and its trail gets wiped out.

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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ps when did this scam take place?

 

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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well IMHO you already have the banks response 

have you a crime ref number from actionfraud yet?

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • Andyorch changed the title to Natwest Bank Transfer Fraud Call HMRC Please help ***Refund in Full***

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