Loans to pay off overdrafts & cards ???

[Pen]

My story regarding Lloyd's and loans is very simmerler and in my own thread so I am not going to bore you all into writing it on here as well. but what i think is that if a bank gave you a refinanced loan to repay chargers, overdraft and loan then it is clearly irresponsible lending, that being the case we should be able to claim all the interest on the loan because the banks are getting the money back twice are they not. for instance overdraft chargers speak for themselves I don't have to go into that, but to refinance a loan for 2000, the original loan being 5000, interest has already been paid to the tune of 3000 so to refinance it with a additional set of higher interest rates baggers belief, and must be in moral, the banks must be raking in a fortune. I have not attempted to make a claim with regards to my loan but I will do once i figure out how to do it.

 

what would I have to do, find out the interest rate on the refinance loan and compare it to the interest on the first loan, claim back the difference and then the interest on the amount of loan which cover the chargers or alternatively since the loan went to solely refinance a loan, overdraft and chargers do i just claim all the interest back.

 

I wish there was more help in reclaiming loan interest for example POCs template letters to the banks asking for the interest back etc just so that we don't make any mistakes when filing claims. are there any template letters or spreadsheets to cover this subject

 

sorry to rant on

Pen X

[kittykat83]

hi everyone,

 

Thanks to photoman for referring me to this thread. Thought I'd join the debate and ask for some advice from people who have been in my position.

 

(I do have another thread where I asked whether claiming charges would affect my loan see here Should I accept an interest free loan before claiming my charges back? but thought it relevant to tell my story here aswell.)

 

I have a Graduate royalties account with RBoS with a £2000 overdraft. In July it will be three years since I graduated and I will then have to pay full interest on my overdraft. I haven't attempted to pay back any of my overdraft but am now thinking of getting my finances in order before they get worse. And also because I've had friends whose overdraft has been recalled after a significant period of not paying it off, poor finances etc. The bank have been on to me trying to get me to repay my overdraft by means of an interest free loan, which I think is a good option for me as it means it definitely will get paid off every month and I dont have to pay any interest. They are also offering me a consolidation loan for two credit cards I have totalling £5300, in which the interest is significantly lower than the credit card interest and so makes sense.

 

I'm also claiming for charges to my account which I estimate will be just over £1000, just sent off my SAR, so yet to calculate. Which brings me to the issue you're all talking about - that the bank are offering me a loan to repay an overdraft whereby more than half of it has been taken in unlawful charges!

 

From the horror stories I've been reading on here, I'm now worried that I should steer well clear of consolidation loans, what do you all think?

 

Feel like a bit of a fledgling in this business of loans and charges so would appreciate any advice from all of you wise ones!!!

[isidore]

Well personally, I think you are in a strong position here. A loan is (nearly) always going to make more sense than a credit card if you are not going to be able to settle you credit card balance in the near future because of the lower interest rate meaning you are paying less back. HOWEVER and I am talking from my own experiences it is essential to cut up the settled cards and cancel the accounts otherwise in a years time you WILL (most likely anyway) end up with twice the debt.

 

If you have been offered all this up front, you have a cracking opportunity to reduce your outgoings by lowering your rate (I am assuming the rate will be lower of course) and then in a month's time once your charges have been settled you could then clear a large percentage of the loan and as a result bringing closer the day when you are debt free as it were.

 

Obviously this is one scenario and I'm sure others will have other opinions but I think the relevance for you is slightly different to a lot on this thread because you haven't yet got the loan and therefore are paying interest upon consolidated charges.

 

 

In summary, your main goal I would presume is to become debt free. I would take the loan(s), snap up the interest free one asap, cancel the cards then use your eventual refund to reduce the high-interest loan.

 

JMHO

[kittykat83]

Thankyou for you advice T4FF, I really appreciate it. Like you, I can't really see any drawbacks to taking the loan, as long as I'm sensible about it. So I think I'll go for it. I'm absolutely definitely going to cut up my cards!!

[isidore]

Cancelling them helps too!!

[isidore]

And of course, you need to make sure you carry out your plans. You could potentially end up with twice the debt (by clearing your cards with a loan, then maxing them again) so you need to ensure you are strict with yourself. I've been there done that....not good!

[JulesTools]

Hi Photoman

 

Just come across this thread via your signature , thanks

 

Just tagging on , interesting read and an option for my next claim

 

Jules

[gizmo111]

I can't see any pitfalls in taking the loan.

I would cut the cards up and when you get the charges refund put it in a ISA and keep it as an emergency fund for when the car breaks down etc.

[HALIBUNNY]

thanks for the thread Photoman. Reminds me of how my downward spiral started reading some of the distressing posts.

 

o.K NOW for a question. What if you get a consolidation loan over 5 years to pay your debts but then pay it off say after a year (with another consolidation!) How do you go about calculating interest aportioned to paying off your debts on the first loan if you haven't incurred 5 years worth of interest?

 

Might be being thick here by the way cos not thought it through but comments appreciated .

 

Halibunny

[photoman]

thanks for the thread Photoman. Reminds me of how my downward spiral started reading some of the distressing posts.

 

o.K NOW for a question. What if you get a consolidation loan over 5 years to pay your debts but then pay it off say after a year (with another consolidation!) How do you go about calculating interest aportioned to paying off your debts on the first loan if you haven't incurred 5 years worth of interest?

 

Might be being thick here by the way cos not thought it through but comments appreciated .

 

Halibunny

In simple terms, the way I see it is, that the Bank that gave you the original charges are responsible for all and any susequent additional interest you paid elsewhere, and anywhere, as a result of any additional borrowing you made to repay those charges. You need to work out what interest liability you incurred, wherever it may be, as a result of repaying those charges. Hope that makes sense.

[kittykat83]

Thanks T4FF and gizmo. Yes I'm going to have to be strict with myself so as not to end up in a worse position and that definitely means cancelling my credit cards. There's no other way

[Pen]

Hi everyone,

 

PM, just as a matter of interest.

 

In simple terms, the way I see it is, that the Bank that gave you the original charges are responsible for all and any susequent additional interest you paid elsewhere, and anywhere, as a result of any additional borrowing you made to repay those charges. You need to work out what interest liability you incurred, wherever it may be, as a result of repaying those charges. Hope that makes sense.

 

this may sound thick but! ( why does everything starts with a but) if the chargers where from say 1998 and in 2002 a person took out a consolidate loan to cover them and which is still being paid under a 5 or 10 yr loan agreement. do you think the bank would provide a person with the statements for that far back even though they are still paying the loan? i don't ! so how would you be able to reclaim them if the bank will not provide the statements to show the high level of chargers that were paid , hence the need for a consolidationl loan, or am i missing the point somewhere.

 

Pen

[photoman]

Pen,

Which bank was it with ?

Is the account still active ?

See this thread:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/80683-please-post-how-far.html

 

The Banks are all desperately trying to tell us one thing, whilst the law is telling us another. It appears that they are trying to imply that data gets destroyed after 6 years...... however, there seems to be some debate about how legally they re obliged to hold onto stuff much longer, as a legal requirement regards actions upon money laundereing etc.

I think you need to put some serious pressure on them to provide you stuff, threaten Information Commisioners office action, or court action.

Also, if they DO try to tell you stuff is destroyed ask them for:

1/ The reasons why?

2/ When

4/By whom

3/ How

 

Then ask them to provide certificates of destruction, and a signed statement from the data controller specifying all the details in those 4 questions.

A data controller can personally get into a lot of trouble for incorrectly handling data (even prison)...... so lets see how far they are prepared to put their necks on the line for their darling employers !!??

[Pen]

Hi PM,

Its my account with the TSB, I can not get any information from the for either mine or O/Hs account.it's been quite complicated. I have issued proceedings with lloyds for the SAR details going back to all my banking history even micro finch.

 

however they took OH to court for his loan and have never ever sent him his agreement, we have put in our defence, the 12 days for CCA has well and truly gone by and we are nearly reaching the 30 day point, yet still no corrispondence they just have not got the agreement. the forced OH to take a consolation loan but he refused to sign it so in their wisdon they gave it to him anyway without his knowledge.

 

My loan however is a different matter, they have sent me a copy of the agreement. in relation to my CAA i have a court date in may for claiming back some chargers as I cannot get all my account details hence the SAR proceedings. my claim for chargers is £6,800 my loan was for 11,000 but i still owe them 7K the payed of my first loan for which was for 5 K but i had already paid 3k, and only had 2 yrs left to pay, plus chargers plus overdraft and OD interest with it. I only hope the court demands they provide me with the info i need as i was also missold peps. but TSB have wrote to me in the past to say they have destroyed all post 6 yrs and said they cannot find pre 6 years except for my loan agreement, funny or what. just how would i proceed if they do not comply with the court in relation to the SAR. and since i am in court proceedings for the chargers i am not sure what i can claime from the loan, as far as I am concerned it would have been paid by now if they had excepted smaller repayments instead of piling more debt on to me over a much longer period

 

Pen.

 

very complicated

 

Pen

[photoman]

Hi PM,

Its my account with the TSB, I can not get any information from the for either mine or O/Hs account.it's been quite complicated. I have issued proceedings with lloyds for the SAR details going back to all my banking history even micro finch.

 

however they took OH to court for his loan and have never ever sent him his agreement, we have put in our defence, the 12 days for CCA has well and truly gone by and we are nearly reaching the 30 day point, yet still no corrispondence they just have not got the agreement. the forced OH to take a consolation loan but he refused to sign it so in their wisdon they gave it to him anyway without his knowledge.

 

My loan however is a different matter, they have sent me a copy of the agreement. in relation to my CAA i have a court date in may for claiming back some chargers as I cannot get all my account details hence the SAR proceedings. my claim for chargers is £6,800 my loan was for 11,000 but i still owe them 7K the payed of my first loan for which was for 5 K but i had already paid 3k, and only had 2 yrs left to pay, plus chargers plus overdraft and OD interest with it. I only hope the court demands they provide me with the info i need as i was also missold peps. but TSB have wrote to me in the past to say they have destroyed all post 6 yrs and said they cannot find pre 6 years except for my loan agreement, funny or what. just how would i proceed if they do not comply with the court in relation to the SAR. and since i am in court proceedings for the chargers i am not sure what i can claime from the loan, as far as I am concerned it would have been paid by now if they had excepted smaller repayments instead of piling more debt on to me over a much longer period

 

Pen.

 

very complicated

 

Pen

Pen,

I am not an expert regards CCA agreements. I gateher though that if they cannot find your original agreement, it is unenforcable. There are some threads on here that help yopu deal with that. Use the search facility, and hunt them out. This should help your O/H.

Data Protection Complaints – Information Commissioner’s Office (ICO)

 

However regards your own situation, all I can say is that you really have to keep at them about evidence and proof of the information. If it is not available, then you must insist on the information I posted above. If need be visit the Information Commisioners website, and you can get infor on how to force compliance. If that does't work, then you ned to threaten them with court action to comply with your SAR. Agin there are threads on here by people in the same situation, and these can guide you in how to issue proceedings for SAR non-compliance.

I suggest you maybe send a PM to one of the site helpers or Moderators for help here, as it sounds like time is short?

[Pen]

Thanks PM,

I have issued court proceedings for the SAR so we wiill just have to wait and see what they send.

I will keep in touch and let you all know the outcome

 

Pen

[Pen]

Hi PM, Lloyd's did not acknowledged my service of the N1 for the SAR so the court has issued judgment for the claimant (little old me).

 

It is ordered that the defendant must pay the claimant a amount which the court will decide and costs. A disposal hearing will take place on the 25th June.

 

Hopefully the judge will then order Lloyd's to comply with my SAR and i will get all the information I need to claim the interest on my loan and pre 6 yr chargers.

 

I will keep you all informed of what happens in court.

 

pen

[photoman]

Hi PM, Lloyd's did not acknowledged my service of the N1 for the SAR so the court has issued judgment for the claimant (little old me).

 

It is ordered that the defendant must pay the claimant a amount which the court will decide and costs. A disposal hearing will take place on the 25th June.

 

Hopefully the judge will then order Lloyd's to comply with my SAR and i will get all the information I need to claim the interest on my loan and pre 6 yr chargers.

 

I will keep you all informed of what happens in court.

 

pen

 

Very exciting !!

 

I hope that everyone here is taking note that this can be done, and how to go about putting pressure on them.

 

Well done Pen !!

[photoman]

Just wanted to revive this thread.

 

The original intention of this thread was to bring to peoples attention the additional hidden manner in which Banks then go on to further profit from their original unlawful acts.

They do this by dishing out consolidation loans to make us repay excessive borrowing. This original "borrowing" as often largely down to the fact that we've had to deal with their charges in the first place.

So, we often take out these loans at high rates and are in actual effect paying masses of interest ON TOP of the charges !!

 

I am now experiencing this first hand:

 

In response to my claim submitted, the Bank have tried to counter it with a defence claiming that there are some outstanding sums on a loan I took out with them some time ago.

 

They have now since filing this defence made an offer, and very kindly (!!) offered to waive the outstanding sums on the loan claimed in the defence as part of the offer.

 

I have written back stating that I am not prepared to accept the fact that they have any rights to use the loan as a bargaining factor, and that it should be discounted from any further negotiations.

 

The actual fact is:

1/ The loan account was actually settled some time ago by a large lump sum payment in leiu of the full sum.

2/ I was informed at the time that the lump sum was accepted as full and final payment, and I actually have written documents from them that prove that; firstly the account is closed, secondly that the closing balance is showning as zero, and also that any recovery actions had been recalled.

 

So, I've got them there. Hard evidence.

 

I then went on to state that should they still contend that there is in actual fact a sum outstanding on the account (despite what they originally told me, and despite all my hard evidence to the contrary), that I will be issuing a counter claim based upon the fact that the loan was used to repay borrowing on account, much of which (actually MOST of which) was due to their charges in the first place !!

I have informed them that if they maintain this attitude, that the counter claim I would issue wouldl actually be much larger than the sum they are trying to claim is outstanding !!

 

Anybody else out there with similar experiences ??

 

Regards

 

PM

[Pen]

Hi PM,

 

Just thought I would pop over and see what you have been upto.

 

Reading your last thread, this is so similar to my husbands case. Like yours, his loan was offered to repay borrowing on his account plus chargers however he never signed the agreement for it. the loan showed a zero balance and his credit report from equifax showed the loan as being satisfied.

They have tried taking him to court but because they cannot produce a loan agreement there is no way they can enforce it, not that he took it out in the first place. I think they have now stopped trying now. but it had me wondering wether or not you have applied for a copy of your credit report just to check what they have put on it in relation to the loan. If as in the case of my O/H it shows loan satisfied it is then more hard evidence for you.

 

Where are you upto with it you have not kept us updated for a while. and I would love to know how you are getting on with it.

TC

Pen

[photoman]

Pen

 

I wrote a formal "Defence to counterclaim" and filed it with the court, outlining the facts, and all the evidence I had in support of them, and also sent a copy to the solicitors....

 

I think it really spooked them !!

 

They quickly wrote back, contesting that it wasn't a "counterclaim", but was in actual fact a "set-off" claim, and protesting about how the two were distinctly different ....... mmmmmmmmm yeah right !

 

Such protestations about the terminolgy are irrelevent really. Regardless of what they try to now call it, the intent of their actions is what will really concern the courts most, and it was very very obviously a retaliatory gesture (without any grounding I may add, and they should have checked on that first), which the court will still take a dim view of.

 

They have dropped any attempts to claim the sums back in any way, and not mentioned them since !!

 

PM

[Pen]

That is just the same as my O/H, although we did not try for a counter claim GaryH helped us with the court process ie defence, witness statement and strickout. they have not followed through on the proceedings so hopfully in all sence and purpose it's gone. they know they have no chance of winning. I have the same with my loan however they have not pushed for payment for the last yr or issued court proceedings but it is the same sernario and i will be defending it if they do.

 

It does make you wonder how many other people they have done this too, we are just 2 out of thousands customers.

[photoman]

Just wanted to revive this thread.

 

The Banks are getting away with all these additional "secret" profits, from encouraging people to take out loans to repay borrowing.

 

In many cases, much of the "borrowing" is comprised of charges that have been wrongly applied to an account in the first place.

 

So in effect, we get clobbered with penalty charges and additional interest on the account they are applied to...... THEN ALSO.. we take out subsequent loans with the bank (often under great pressure from them to do so, or face dire recovery consequences),.... and these subsequent loans are also often at higher rates (because of poor credit ratings, again due to charges), which then add yet more interest onto the charges !!

 

I think this is an important issue, that we should all now start to address more seriously.

 

I am now working on further claims, which will include a portion for claiming the additional interest incurred through these loans.

 

I have been working on a spreadsheet to help calculate this, and plan to make this available to all, once I feel it is correct.

 

I am confident that it works, and it calculates the portion of interest upon a loan that can be attributed to the original penalties. It sits in and ties up nicely with existing spreadsheets, and carefully calculates only such elements without trying to claim for anything twice over.

 

I am quite excited by it, and hope it can start to be incorporated into a lot of claims as standard (or at least provide a basis for similar sheets).

 

First though I would appreciate if any Moderators, site helpers, or members with experience of prior claims including loans would take a quick look to see if indeed correct, and does the intended job.

 

If any of this group would please PM me with an email address I can send it to, I will forward for your trying out.

 

Regards to all

 

PM

[photoman]

PS: I would like to just add, that I have tried out this sheet myself in regards to some loans taken out for such purposes.

 

I was shocked at just how much additional interest has been paid due to these practices.

 

For anyone who may think the sums are trifling, and not worth the trouble...think again !!

[isidore]

I have been working on a spreadsheet to help calculate this, and plan to make this available to all, once I feel it is correct.

 

Sounds interesting! Will certainly be interested in having a look. Will be pming you my addy now.......