Loans to pay off overdrafts & cards ???

[Guest Battleaxe]

You are much more cautious now Snoopsmum and you wont let A & L take advantage of you.

 

I pay all my bills manuallky now, when they have insisted on a DD, I challenge it and even MBNA (wash my mouth out) have agreed I can rpay my loan manually. I ring up on the 28th of the month, and use my cashcard, as a debit card. I have not had a late payment since October. It's fanastic to know by lunchtime on the 28th, all my bills are paid any money left in the account is ALL mine. Yes we have two credit cards, which I never allowed a DD on, so at least two accounts with no late charges or anything else on. When DD's are mentioned by anyone, I just offe the words Devil's spawn. MBNA did give me a hassle for three months, but I wont in the end and they ended up giving me two months payments as goodwill for the grief they caused. They kept refusing my payments over the phone. Stupid people. I was offering to pay full payments, they refused because I would not set up a DD on my new account, so I challenged them to take me to court, especially as I had it documented that they refused three payments each month off me. So you can pay your bills manually. oh the other loot whoich gave me grief until I drtagged the OFT, ICO and OFT in was Clydesdale Finance. they were saying I had to pay before the 28th so the money was on my account with them. Point of law, if payment is due on a certain day and you pay on that day and they give you an authorisation number, sorry payment made on due date. This push still owe me three late payment charges £67.50, so I am taking it off the end of my loan with them. There admin charges are unlawful. Thank you OFT. My credit file shows all payments made on due date now without a 1 appearing, thank you ICO.If I need a cheque for anything , I go to the post office and buy a postal order. it's great this feeling of getting control back and not worrying about payments not being made. Now just to whip A & L, MBNA and Crap One into shape. These three will the rue the day they decided to play oneupmanship with me.

 

Now to work on the A & L loan and get that money back.

 

I don't mind paying what I owe lawfully, but I am not paying one penny more that is unlawful or caused by circumstances we were forced into by those who took advantage of circumstances caused by them.

 

You are right this is therapy and is so good to share with people who are understand what has happened.

[sn00psmum]

You're right Battleaxe, I am much more cautious now and also due to this fantastic resource i'm also far more knowledgable of the law and my rights;)

 

You've got it sussed the way you are paying bills now, there are no DDs set up on A&L a/c yet & never will be! Chequebook has been 'filed' (matches )

 

I've just amended and resubmitted my RBS claim which is now for £17.5k inc CI. I have written politely to N/wide to ask for refund of £360- no word yet. I have received a full offer of chgs & debit interest on RBS business a/c which I have accepted. I have sent off for my SAR on an old HBOS a/c. I have received my SAR on one of our Crap One a/cs, envelope very badly torn, in a sealed Royal Mail apology bag- some pages missing? not sure, haven't checked it yet but surely my identity has been compromised due to their shabby packaging. Other Crap One a/c will be pursued soon once we have used them to our full advantage:D

 

But RBS are by far the worst of all our accounts, they have put us in the position we find ourselves today by repeatedly increasing our overdraft to cover their unlawful behaviour and I will not rest until they repay every penny they robbed from us including the interest on the Provi loans.

 

I have to go and do some housework now but i'll be back on later for updates:-) There's another way we're affected, well me anyway. No work of any description getting done, house is a tip! I'm hooked on this site and when i'm not posting rants i'm preparing spreadsheets or responding to silly bank letters! They should provide us with a housekeeping service while we deal with all our claims!!

SM:p

[isidore]

IMO no bank is more guilty than the next - it just depends on what status your account is in with them. If you're in credit and you are using the bank for all it's use of course it will be a wonderful bank.

 

Realistically, any bank is great until you get into problems and you WILL find out that none of them are willing to help you. In keeping with this, one person may loathe Natwest eg whilst the next person thinks they're great. It's just down to each individual's experiences with them.

 

Look at First Direct - when it first opened it was fabulous, what a refreshing change to personal banking! But now look at them - it's name is no better than the next bank and why? Because people have had time to get into debt with them.

 

Realistically, RBS could have been anyone and you'd be here now cursing them out. I know this will not be warmly welcomed, but IMO (and I am critical of myself when I say this) the honus is on us to ensure we don't get into difficult situations as much as possible - in much the same way as Battleaxe has done. I do realise that many people will not be able to influence their circumstances and get into debt through no fault of their own and I'm not on about you. But for the rest of us, it is too easy to not take responsibility and put your head in the sand - I know because I did!

[Guest Alison82]

Say if you had a number of accounts and took out a loan to consolidate them how would you then decide how much interest from your loan to ask back for as a refund from the other companies??

 

In other words how would you divide up who pays back what amount of interest?

 

(Hope this makes sense)

[isidore]

Percentages!!!

[isidore]

EDITED TO MAKE MUCH MORE SENSE .......

 

Whatever percentage of the original loan was made up of bank charges, is the claimable percentage of the interest.

 

Does that make sense :?

[harvest]

Thanks PM for starting this thread (someone put a link on a post over in the FD forum).

 

It's only when reading all the stories here that I suddenly realised - all of my loans over the years have been consolidation loans to pay off ODs and Credit Cards...they've just gone on and on.

 

Trouble is my first ever loan was with Nat West and when I swapped bank accounts to first direct (10 year anniverssary of changing my account today!!) they took over the Nat West loan because they said I would bet better off.

 

I'm in a right old mess with loans - I haven't missed a payment on any of them ever but my circumstances changed in December and I now have the feeling that I will not be able to meet the payment next month.

 

'tis a viscious circle.

[The Capitulator]

Hi all

Just registering my interest (compounded) on this excellant thread thanks PM just what I was looking for. Now maybe I can start to make sence of the loans used to pay off charges -PM please keep us posted when the spreadsheet you mentioned is available.

 

My tale is nowhere near as heart wrenching as some above, but nether the less I aim to get MY money back then use a bank only when neccersary.

 

My £3,000 buisness start up OD from 4 years ago has risen to £18 by consolidation 3 times each with the insisted PPI -which was of no use to me being self employed. Last Sptember after reading this site I raised the issue with my senior buisness banking manager -his response? he closed my account. letters have been exchanged and I am still investigating the PPI -but out of the blue I received a letter saying "out of GOGW we will reduce your £18.5k to £13k. now I am not sure how far to take this -if I accept I loose my right to get to the bottom of the miss sold PPI -but if I don't accept I may loose the £5.5k reduction -any ideas folks?

 

regards

 

Carl

[Guest Battleaxe]

Hi all

Just registering my interest (compounded) on this excellant thread thanks PM just what I was looking for. Now maybe I can start to make sence of the loans used to pay off charges -PM please keep us posted when the spreadsheet you mentioned is available.

 

My tale is nowhere near as heart wrenching as some above, but nether the less I aim to get MY money back then use a bank only when neccersary.

 

My £3,000 buisness start up OD from 4 years ago has risen to £18 by consolidation 3 times each with the insisted PPI -which was of no use to me being self employed. Last Sptember after reading this site I raised the issue with my senior buisness banking manager -his response? he closed my account. letters have been exchanged and I am still investigating the PPI -but out of the blue I received a letter saying "out of GOGW we will reduce your £18.5k to £13k. now I am not sure how far to take this -if I accept I loose my right to get to the bottom of the miss sold PPI -but if I don't accept I may loose the £5.5k reduction -any ideas folks?

 

regards

 

Carl

 

If they are prepared to reduce things by this much, they are have a lot more they can offer you. They do not the hefty fine regarding the mis-sold PPI and as you are self emplyed they are definitely so far down Wrong Road, you have them. You could write and tell them that yu accept the offer as part payment, but you will be pursuing your claim for the mis-sold PPI. You accept, it is not a win. They will have you exactly where they want you.

 

It's your choice ultimately, but if it were me in your situation, I would say thank you but no thank you, because it ti the PPI premuims plus CI and the very hefty fine they are going to get for mis-selling.

 

Carl which bank is it your dealing with?

[The Capitulator]

Hi Battleaxe

Thanks for reply

Its the wonderful LSTB that I am dealing with. Have written today accepting their kind offer -as a part settlement. and left it open for them to revisit the offer and come back to me -will post any news.

 

regards

 

Carl

[Guest Battleaxe]

Yes, put the ball back in their court. After last night's programme they will have to think seriously about how they respond, because that programmme is going to bite every bank on the posterior now.

Keep us posted

[The Capitulator]

Hi Battleaxe thanks for response - I have posted below Lloyds letter to me and my response sent today -your /anyones comments greatly received.

From

Lloyds Tsb

19th March

Dear Mug (my comments in blue)

I am now of the understanding that the issues you raised regarding the sale of your Business Loan Repayment Insurance have been investigated and that a final response letter has been sent to you on the 1st March.

In light of this I am writing to request your repayment proposals as a matter of urgency (must be running out of money I think not) As you are aware your accounts xxx & xxx have been amalgamated and the balance outstanding is £18,565.46 however my previous offer of £13,000 will remain open for a further 7 days.

Please contact me with your repayment proposals within 7 days. The bank is preferably seeking a lump sum payment or alternatively we will explore establishing a monthly repayment plan. As an example at an interest rate of base +5% the bank will require payments of £217.49 to enable you to repay the balance over a 7 year period (this equals £18,269.16 almost got all their generous good will gesture back –good job if you can get one)

If I fail to receive to receive suitable proposals from you within the time period I will be left with no further option other than to transfer your case to the Banks external collection agents (Grabbit & Co) Without further reference to yourself.

I look forward to hearing from you within the timescale detailed above.

Yours sincerely

Chief Mug catcher

And my response

Dear Lloyds

I am in receipt of your letter dated 19th March which I received today the 21st March, I note its contents. I must say Dale the tone of your letter does not impress me.

You are correct I have received a letter of final response from Gail Owen regarding my miss sold PPI policies. I will state though that Ms Owen has not answered my questions which will enable me to ascertain the amounts for the miss sold policies. Consequently I have written back to her and informed her that I do not accept her final response, and that I require copies of statements from my previous bank managers under my SAR request.

I am considering filing a County court action under the Data Protection Act for non compliance / obstruction from her. As you will know this can lead to an order of imprisonment should a District Judge find that there has been deliberate concealment and / or obstruction. I will await her response to my letter, and then decide if a court application by me is to follow.

Consequently you will derive from this that the account is still in dispute. Further more I will not tolerate interference from “external debt collectors” I need not remind you that it is contrary to the banking code section 13.6 for you to pass this on to a third party until the dispute is resolved. Any attempt by you to carry out your threat will lead to an immediate complaint to the FSO.

However

I accept your figure of £13,000 as a GOGW and as a part settlement and wish to proceed to repay this amount on the following terms:

1) The amount will be subject to an interest rate of 3% above base.

2) The monthly payments will be made by me into my bank account. I will not be subjected to stuffing cash into envelopes and sending them to you akin to a naughty school boy, I have done nothing wrong.

You will be aware that the OFT has recently fined a bank for retaliatory action after the A&L closed an account following the customers justifiable complaint. I have not yet decided if I am to follow the many hundreds and report Lloyds for this to the OFT. I will await the outcome of our deliberations before reaching a decision.

However

I am well aware that relations between myself and my manager have irretrievably broken down on a trust basis, therefore I will accept you opening an account for me to use in my local branch

It is my opinion that once:-

The unlawful bank charges,

The miss sold PPI’s,

The managed loans,

The interest charged by you on unlawful charges,

The interest and ability by me to invest these amounts in my business

-has been fully calculated and deducted from the outstanding balance then a figure of around £5,000 will be left, I welcome your continued help to accurately calculate this amount.

Alternatively I will accept £8,000 as a full & final figure and commence repayment immediately over 5 years and also cease forthwith all claims and actions and confirm in writing that the account is out of dispute.

Of course you could short circuit all this letter writing by both parties and issue a writ in the County Court for the repayment of the outstanding £13,000.

My immediate response would be to insist the District Judge orders the bank to standard disclosure of its costs, (see whistleblower BBC1 21st March 2007 calculated @ £1.50 per item) to enable me to work out the actual figure I owe you.

This will (I am sure you know) result in a figure of about £1.50 to £2 being adopted as the normal amount that Lloyds (and the other banks) will be allowed to charge for returning D/D’s etc instead of the present charge of £35.

For clarification purposes I am sure you are aware that common law states that either party to an agreement cannot profit from a breach in the agreement, but may charge actual costs in order to restore the agreement to a position that existed before the breach.

A loss of about £1.5bn per year in net profits to Lloyds alone would be the result of these cost’s being made a ruling in a Court of law.

I trust a more constructive reply will now be forthcoming.

I hope this is to your satisfaction and therefore remain

Yours Sincerely

Mug

[Guest Battleaxe]

Mr Mug,

 

Well said. Now are you going to send it and then await their reaction oops response?

[The Capitulator]

Hi Battleaxe

 

Thanks for your comment, yes I have sent it. Was more incensed by their threat of using external collectors than the money part. Will see what happens. Keep you posted.

 

-Anyone else to comment?

 

TC

[The Capitulator]

Hi Battleaxe & PM anybody? any thoughts on where this may go?

I thought I would try and box them in by making it harder for them to sell the debt off, and also invite them to take me to court -as that is really the only place where this could be bottomed out. Funny really as I would like to start repaying what I owe -but they don't seem to want to telll me what the figure is. What I would really like is my 15 mins in court and walk away with a figure for actual costs which will then help all I guess. I know the whistle blower highlighted a cost of £2 approx but this still has to be ratified by a court in order to be made "the norm"

 

I may of forgot to mention but this is/was a business account before they closed it when I complained about charges -that was back in Sept I have not paid a penny since on the original £18 and they have not threatened anything save above in their letter - I carnt pay as I don't have an account with them !!

 

Any ideas ?

[The Capitulator]

bump -anyone?

[andrew1]

Capitulator, was this a Limited Company Business Account or sole trader? I have a Limited Company Thread running and all actions like this are worth copying to to help others. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/73488-limited-company-claims.html

[The Capitulator]

Hi Andrew

Would love to join you guys but my account was a t/a account and not a ltd company. Anyhow still trying to chissel them down to remove their unlawful charges hopfully may even get to the stage where they owe me

I was talking to BF a couple of months ago, and we thought my case might be a good first for consequential loss -i.e. the loss caused to a business through these charges. So this is my plan of action as soon as I know how this is panning out I will be making my claim.

Once I have the banks response from my letter I will be back in touch with BF and I think I will then start a claim as above. In the mean time if I can be of any help please let me know.

 

regards

 

TC

[Guest Alison82]

EDITED TO MAKE MUCH MORE SENSE .......

 

Whatever percentage of the original loan was made up of bank charges, is the claimable percentage of the interest.

 

Does that make sense :?

 

Yes but say you had 8 or so accounts would you just divide the intrest evenly or would you divide it accoring to who charged you more?

[elizabeth1]

Yes but say you had 8 or so accounts would you just divide the intrest evenly or would you divide it accoring to who charged you more?

Alison - there are two ways you can do it - firstly you could just share the interest between the 8 participating accounts equally - but I wouldn't advise that as some debts would be bigger than others so leaves room for arguments with the "lesser debts" charging more in the proportion of interest allocated to that individual debt interest being charged??

 

The other way is to total up the whole sum of the debts together. Then allocate the interest to each one with it's varying proportion of the debt interest you'd be charging etc.. At least that way you'd be nearer a correct figure for each debts responsibility?

 

My thought here is that a debt of 50 pounds wouldn't be as responsible as a debt of say 2000 pounds?? by trying to add them together and using each one with it's own percentage may be less arguable?

 

I am hoping someone can explain with a better option for you!!

[isidore]

Alison - there are two ways you can do it - firstly you could just share the interest between the 8 participating accounts equally - but I wouldn't advise that as some debts would be bigger than others so leaves room for arguments with the "lesser debts" charging more in the proportion of interest allocated to that individual debt interest being charged??

 

The other way is to total up the whole sum of the debts together. Then allocate the interest to each one with it's varying proportion of the debt interest you'd be charging etc.. At least that way you'd be nearer a correct figure for each debts responsibility?

 

My thought here is that a debt of 50 pounds wouldn't be as responsible as a debt of say 2000 pounds?? by trying to add them together and using each one with it's own percentage may be less arguable?

 

I am hoping someone can explain with a better option for you!!

 

That is what I was getting at. Say you had a loan for 10000 and had 3 accounts that this was paying off:

 

A 1000

B 3000

C 6000

 

Each account would be accountable for a proportion of the loan and therefore a proportion of the interest.

 

A 1000/10000 = 10%

B 3000/10000 = 30%

C 6000/10000 = 60%

 

So if the interest was 3000 over the life of the loan they would accountable for:

 

A 3000 x 10% = 300

B 3000 x 30% = 900

C 3000 x 60% = 1800

 

That is how I would work it out in it's simplest terms, not saying this is correct but it is what I would do.

[photoman]

YES........BUT !!!!

 

This is all presuming it was a consolidation loan taken out with the same lender (bank) in order to pay off borrowing on several accounts (eg, a personal account and a Credit cards) with them, is it not ?

 

What if the loan was taken out to pay off several lenders eg, bank overdrafts and cards with several providers, each of which had imposed charges?

 

How then do you aportion liability for the extra interest you end up paying on a consolidation loan ?

 

Would you have to take seperate actions against each of the lenders for the extra interest incurred as a result of a consolidation loan ??

[isidore]

But if these accounts had charges, would you not be in the process of taking action against them already?

[photoman]

But if these accounts had charges, would you not be in the process of taking action against them already?

 

Yes hopefully you would.

But what I am saying is this;

If you had taken a loan elsewhere to repay the borrowing you owed them, some of which was due to their charges.

You would be paying interest on that loan to your loan company.

The loan company would not be liable for the extra interest you were paying due to charges you had incurred with another lender. the original lender would.

So, how would you approach this? Would you then have to take a seperate action against the original lender for the extra interest you had been put to by borrowing elsewhere?

This could be a real tricky one?

(PS: I am not fortunately in this situation, I am just throwing this in for debate for the benefit of those viewing this thread)

[isidore]

You would be paying interest on that loan to your loan company. The loan company would not be liable for the extra interest you were paying due to charges you had incurred with another lender. the original lender would.

Agreed

 

So, how would you approach this? Would you then have to take a seperate action against the original lender for the extra interest you had been put to by borrowing elsewhere? This could be a real tricky one?

Well I would think this is your only option but what I was referring to, is if you had charges from not just the loan company but also the other lenders who you are referring to, you would also (I would assume) be taking action against them already, so this would then become a portion of your claim (if, that is, this is a viable road to go down).

 

I as much as you am just speculating right now, not really sure of the answer, just adding my two pence worth.