Centrica/CST claimform - Industrial Training Bond

[smooth]

ok.. what is the best course of action here? 

 

I will be on a stag do, I guess I can always speak if it's just a phone call and i don't need to say / do anything in that context? 

 

 

 

 

[AndyOrch]

Inform the court that you will not be available as you have already stated....I doubt that there will be much that you can add to the hearing as defendant and let the court set the agenda and allocation. 

[smooth]

I replied before you sent the above message stating 'this is a little confusing I was informed I needed to email over to get the date changed' 

 

and this was their reply - 

 

Before the Judge will consider your request, as per Civil Procedure Rules, the other party must be copied into correspondence, and you must state that the other side has been sent a copy.

The best place to start when asking for adjournment is to ask the other party to see if they consent to this, then it can be taken to a Judge to consider.

 

I don’t have an email address, only the phone number which is on the claim form, which you should have a copy of – the solicitor is CST Law, and the telephone number is 0114 290 1411

You should be able to ask for the claim handler and find out if they are agreeable to an adjournment – we would need something in writing from them saying that they agree.

I hope this helps.

 

 

if you don't mind, can you let me know very briefly what I should reply to this? 

 

Seems like a lot of work when all I need is the date moved due to me being out of the country, unsure why they're making it so complicated. 

 

Thanks Andy! 

[AndyOrch]

Email solicitor is CST Law and state that the upcoming hearing teleconference dated xxxxxx  you are not able to to attend due to a prearranged  engagement and request their agreement to an adjournment. You respectfully seek that that they would agree to this and ask them to confirm in writing/email to the court they are in agreement and ask them to copy you in on said request.

 

You should also send a similar request to the court and inform them that you have asked the claimants if they are in agreement and have asked them to inform the court same.

[smooth]

Hi all, had the below response today .. 

 

Dear Sir, 

 

We refer to the above mentioned matter and confirm we are now in receipt of our clients instructions following your request for an adjournment.

 

We confirm that our client is not in agreement to the adjournment request and will be attending the forthcoming hearing.

 

Should you have any queries, please do contact me. Alternatively, please do seek independent legal advice.

 

Yours Faithfully

 

CST Law

 

I’ll just have to take the call whilst away 

[AndyOrch]

Afraid so 

[smooth]

Received the below email today attached with a witness statement - 

 

anything anyone can help me with would

be greatly appreciated. Thank you 

 

We write further to the above matter.

In readiness for the hearing, please find attached the Claimant’s Witness Statement.

We confirm that the Claimant’s witness will not be in attendance, pursuant to CPR 27.9 and the Claimant will be represented by an advocate of LPC Law. The advocate’s details will be provided to the Court at the earliest convenience.

A copy of the same has been filed at Court.

Yours faithfully

CST LAW

CLAIMANT WITNESS STATEMENT WITH EXHIBITS .pdf

[AndyOrch]

Does the hearing require a witness statement submitting in advance ?  Did the court order that statements be submitted ?

[smooth]

Not that I know of, anything that has been sent to me I have posted in this thread for advice on what to reply / do 

[AndyOrch]

Well I would make some notes if there is anything in that statement that you find untrue or misleading to the court in preparation of the Tele Hearing.

 

 

 

.

[smooth]

I don’t recall them ever asking for an overpayment from my knowledge. I think that’s the the first time I’ve read that. 
 

I can prepare, what is actually expected of me on the 18th ?

Would I need to have my own witness statement etc 

 

I want to be in the best position going forward so I can mitigate the monies that is owed. 
 

I spoke to my manager at the time when I left and gave my reasons (mental health) which he accepted, I never asked for advice because I had made the decision to leave. I returned to my previous lower paid job in an office where I still remain today. I never used the qualification that I got through the apprenticeship since - all this can be proved upon request from the court 

 

I just want the judge to understand my reasons for leaving were sincere and not motivated by money - I’m in a worst off paid position even to do this day had I not just remained employed by Centrica. I returned to an office job, working within a team which keeps my mental state of my mind happy. 
 

when I left I was never told that I would be expected to pay any training bond fee’s though I do acknowledge it was in a contract that every employee had signed, my argument is the manager never specifically said if you leave you would owe X amount of money. I told him I’m leaving due to mental health and from my understanding the reasons were valid and I wouldn’t be expected to pay anything, otherwise if that  was not the case that information should have been relayed to me. 

 

Will I be provided with a solicitor in court for free to seek advice / review my case or am I expected to participate on my without legal advice? Sorry if I’m asking dumb questions, I really don’t understand anything of this and it’s causing me a lot of stress

[FTMDave]

Am I the only one who reads the WS as saying the OP was overpaid two weeks' salary totalling £766 (para 6)?

 

In (para 7) it is emphasised again the total amount is £766.

 

The suddenly (para 15) the amount mushrooms to £12,698 with no explanation.

 

Hasn't the idiot who prepared this WS scored a big own goal here?

[dx100uk]

3 hours ago, smooth said:

Will I be provided with a solicitor in court for free to seek advice / review my case or am I expected to participate on my without legal advice? Sorry if I’m asking dumb questions, I really don’t understand anything of this and it’s causing me a lot of stress

 

no you are a litigant in person.

 

dx

 

[dx100uk]

On 05/05/2022 at 22:09, FTMDave said:

Hasn't the idiot who prepared this WS scored a big own goal here?

 

no see point 13.

...................

 

on that IP address in their exhibits (now hidden along with numerous stuff you'd not redacted)

 

it comes back as the PDF

 

does that anyway relate to you and where you were at that time y/n?

 

IP address.pdf

[smooth]

thanks all for reviewing what I have posted. 
 

any advice that can be giving would really help calm my nerves  

 

I have home insurance and included with the policy is ‘family legal protection’ it can be used for employment disputes. Do you think it’s worth me enquiring? 
 

also, the part that states I didn’t make any attempt on my end in the WS, I have email proof of me contacting Centrica, then being told to speak to another department explaining why I am disputing the above, sending an email to said department and then not hearing anything for years later. 
 

below is a response I was sent after being told to email a specific department, that email was sent (contesting any money owed in 2017) and I never heard anything until years later 

 

“

thank you for your query.

Please be advised, that however we do understand your concerns and arguments we are not decision making team and we cannot proceed with any write off for you.

 

As processing team we will be more than happy to proceed with such query, but the approval and request to do so must come from local authorities for your business unit.

 

The best option would be to reach your former management within the business.

 

As your employment is ceased we do know that you might not have options to contact your former manager or level up manager, and also that you might not feel comfortable discussing this matter with them.

 

In this case we strongly recommend you to reach to People Transition Team, who is responsible for resolving outstanding queries between terminated employees and local management. They can be reached by e-mail: [email protected].

 

We do know they will be more than happy to assist.

 

Please note, that this case is closed.

 

Regards

Pauline

Contact Centre Team”

I emailed the above department as per what I was told by the previous department and no one ever got back to me until I started to receive letters from CST law - 

 

The original email I sent back in 2017 was the below - 

 

 

Hi, 

I have been advised to email in regards with the training bond I’d like to dispute. 

My payroll number is 2***** & my name is **********

I started my career in British Gas as an apprentice Smart meter Engineer back in July 2016 and made the decision to leave in January 2017. 

The reason I left the company was because I realised that this type of work wasn’t for me, British Gas recruited me knowing my previous job history which was all office based and working alongside other colleagues in a team environment.

 

Prior to this I had no previous experience working on my own or doing manual work. 

My argument is that during my training and even when I went out on patch with a mentor I was always with someone, so I never really got a taste for what the job would be like, mentally without being around colleagues and working on my own.

 

Not only that whilst I was out with the mentors they would always help you finish the jobs and take some of the work off your hands,

 

either they would want to finish on time or had somewhere they needed to be so even then I never really understood how challenging the work was.

When I finally became qualified and was working on my own it was a massive shock to me how different the actual job was.

 

I never once expected how mentally I would feel not having anyone alongside me to work with and how much more physically challenging the job was especially not having anyone to help me out. 

I understand British Gas train you on a lot of things but when it comes to mental & physical preparation for the job I didn’t have the right training and support that I needed once I qualified. 

This is my whole argument because a company such as yourselves should understand that this job isn’t going to be for everyone and should have measures in place to identify people like me, who may find it a lot more challenging than someone who has worked on their own before or come from an engineering background. 

When I joined British Gas I was 26 and prior to this had worked in Admiral insurance for 4 years doing call centre work,

 

straight away someone of my age and my previous job experience should have raised alarm bells as being a high risk individual.

 

But rather than speak to me on a one to one basis by your PS department or give me a little bit longer after I became qualified so I could actually get a taste for what the job was.

 

I was put in the same boat as everyone else and now I’m liable to pay a £9,000 training bond. 

As soon as I realised that this Job wasn’t for me which was within a month of becoming qualified I made the decision to leave and go back to my old job which by me doing so meant I was taking over a £10,000 pay cut.

 

That alone should prove to British Gas that I genuinely would of left sooner if I knew what the job was actually going to be like.

During my time at British Gas I did learn a lot about the smart metering program.

 

I learnt that incidents had happened but not been released to the press, incidents in which it was extremely lucky customers hadn’t been hurt or worst, killed.

 

How the engineers really carry out their work in a supposedly ’safe’ manner and how the company British Gas victimise people like my self regardless of your age into paying a huge amount of money after realising the job they applied for after only doing the actual job for a month isn’t for them. 

British Gas as a company are more than happy enough to put people into a massive amount of debt after only working for the company for 6 months and doing the job it self for 1 month and certain individuals like my self this will put a huge strain on someone’s finical commitments and mental health for years and years to come. 

If this can’t be resolved fairly the only other action I can take is to pass what I know over to numerous online press agencies and TV channels and really go into detail with what I’ve learned about the company, the manner in which meters are installed, incidents that have occurred, support which should be there but isn't and how the company treats its young apprentices.

I really do hope this can be resolved as that is the last option I’d want to take. 

Regards

[dx100uk]

ok forget all you are stating above IMHO, thats admitting even more that you owe 'something' ... immaterial.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[smooth]

On 06/05/2022 at 01:03, dx100uk said:

on that IP address in their exhibits (now hidden along with numerous stuff you'd not redacted)

 

it comes back as the PDF

 

does that anyway relate to you and where you were at that time y/n?

 

IP address.pdf 37.67 kB · 3 downloads

The country is correct but I have never been to Ystradgynlais especially not at 11pm. I live over an hour drive away from said location 

[dx100uk]

IP location will never be exact, but you could have signed that works contract at 11 o'clock at night?

 

Dx

[smooth]

I honestly don’t remember, from memory we were all in the training centre with tablets they had giving us and done all the paper work / acknowledgements at that point.

 

Though there is a possibility I has was sent an email to sign and I signed it at that time time of the night. From memory however it was in the academy during the day 

 

I have just looked back at my emails I was sent the below emails once the job offer was received,

 

looks like I signed everything over emails without actually communicating with anyone in person regarding the training bond and before I had even started the job (the 11pm signing time is correct following the confirmation email) 

 

24/06/16 15:04 

Thank you **** for attending our recent assessment centre for the Trainee Smart Metering Expert    We are delighted to tell you that we would like to offer you a position.   You will shortly receive access to our new joiners website, Gateway, where you will initially have access to additional information about British Gas and later be able to view and formally accept your contract online.   Please note that all job offers are made subject to satisfactory background, reference and medical checks being received.   British Gas makes a significant financial investment in training its engineers.   Acceptance of this offer is on the understanding that you will be eligible to pay back all or a proportion of your training costs should you leave within a set period.   Please see your terms and conditions for full details.   We will contact you again to let you know that your contract and offer letter, which describe the terms and conditions of the role, are available through the Gateway site.     Once you receive confirmation that the contract and offer are available it is important that you log in and complete the required information as soon as possible.    Please note that as you will be electronically signing the contract you will not need to print and post it back to us.    Once signed please remember to download a copy of the contract for your records.   If you have any enquires regarding this or any other matter, please contact me by replying to this email at [email protected] .    Congratulations! and best wishes   From The British Gas recruitment team    080080116

 

 

24/06/16 15:34 

Welcome to Gateway Gateway is our secure, tailored online approach to providing you with an engaging and smooth joining experience.   This is your opportunity to learn more about British Gas and the wider Centrica group of companies.   We need you to complete some short new joiner tasks prior to starting with us on July 18 2016.   You'll even be able to view and sign your offer online once it's available.   If you'd like to receive a text message alert as well, please make sure you check that your mobile/cell number shown on the Gateway homepage is correct (don't worry if it isn't, there's a button so you can change it under My Personal Details)   All the details you need to log in and get started are given below

 

30/06/16 23:12 

We have your signed offer documents   Thanks for signing your offer documents; we now have a copy saved.   Please don’t forget to download a copy of your offer documents for your own records as soon as possible.   If you still have any outstanding “critical” or “important” tasks please complete them as soon as possible.   Just as a reminder the Gateway site can be found her

 

Is there anything I should do in preparation for the hearing? 

[AndyOrch]

On 05/05/2022 at 13:45, Andyorch said:

Well I would make some notes if there is anything in that statement that you find untrue or misleading to the court in preparation of the Tele Hearing.

 

 

 

.

 

[smooth]

is it worth me seeking legal advice? i have family legal protection on my home insurance which can be used for employment disputes etc 

 

 

[dx100uk]

unless i'm missing something here i think you are up the creek with no paddle

 

they have produced documents signed by you , and the timeline matches.

 

dx

[smooth]

Not good then !!

 

realistically what should I expect to be the outcome in the end? Is it likely the judge will agree on me paying them the full 14k + they’re asking for? 

 

the whole situation is making me very anxious 
 

 

[FTMDave]

1 hour ago, smooth said:

is it worth me seeking legal advice? i have family legal protection on my home insurance which can be used for employment disputes etc

You are already getting legal advice here.  Caggers like Andyorch and dx are vastly experienced in these matters.

[smooth]

Ye I appreciate everyone replying and trying to help. 
 

guess I’m just preparing myself for the worst now   

 

There isn’t really anything I can note to disagree with when the hearing takes places either.

 

All of this goes over my head, I just want to explain my side of the story to the judge, explain I didn’t gain anything from leaving, left within 6months of starting and went back to my old job in an office for less pay.

 

If that means anything in the court of law and judge understands hopefully I won’t have the book thrown at me. Something tells me it won’t exactly work like that though