Mutating Corona Virus

[cjcregg]

11 hours ago, honeybee13 said:

Yes they do deserve a break, but how do they plan to keep people safe?

 

I assume that's a rhetorical question and while I understand the sentiment, the country cannot survive on virtue alone.

 

What do you suggest the Government does? Continue to borrow huge sums of money to bail the industry out indefinitely?

 

 

[honeybee13]

I would like the government to behave with some professionalism and to have a plan to keep people safe in pubs and restaurants as far as possible.

 

What I'm seeing is mixed messages and that never helps.

[brassnecked]

The pubs aren't open in Wales yet

[honeybee13]

Would you go to one if they were open, BN?

[honeybee13]

Chaos over air bridges. I think this says it all in the Independent, talking about Boris's press conference.

 

'It just means that these are the countries the UK has deemed low risk. That other countries have deemed the UK extremely bloody high risk is really not a question for now. Just go away and enjoy summer safely.'

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/boris-johnson-coronavirus-briefing-summer-pubs-death-toll-a9600696.html

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jul/03/how-uk-air-bridges-descended-into-a-coronavirus-policy-farce?utm_term=RWRpdG9yaWFsX0d1YXJkaWFuVG9kYXlVS19XZWVrZW5kLTIwMDcwNA%3D%3D&utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&CMP=GTUK_email&utm_campaign=GuardianTodayUK

 

 

[brassnecked]

No I wouldn't go easier to get some wine and beers, watch a film and have a drink, or play some games. Got some Stream gift cards from Father's Day to spend., Steam Sale is onand Black mesa is on offer.  A remake of Half Life.  That has to be better than queuing to get a pint, and have the pub breach GDPR with the data they are told to harvest by UK Gov for track & trace.

[tobyjugg2]

7 hours ago, cjcregg said:

 

I assume that's a rhetorical question and while I understand the sentiment, the country cannot survive on virtue alone.

 

What do you suggest the Government does? Continue to borrow huge sums of money to bail the industry out indefinitely?

 

 

 

and do you suggest that people die to preserve profit?

If not, then what are you suggesting?

 

 

.. even given that the very likely resultant rise in infections would result in people staying away anyway, probably for far longer, whatever utter drivel Johnson and his supporters might spout ... let alone what they actually do

 

[cjcregg]

7 hours ago, honeybee13 said:

I would like the government to behave with some professionalism and to have a plan to keep people safe in pubs and restaurants as far as possible.

 

What I'm seeing is mixed messages and that never helps.

They have got a plan https://www.gov.uk/guidance/working-safely-during-coronavirus-covid-19/restaurants-offering-takeaway-or-delivery

 

It seems pretty clear to me.

[tobyjugg2]

if you are twisting sideways to takaway pubs? rather than opening pubs as you initially referred

 

... thats always been cheaper at off licences and supermarkets isn't it, and rather defeats the point of pubs, and restaurants?

 

WHAT are you actually saying/claiming/suggestion if anything?

Edited July 4, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[London1971]

Pubs all seem to be doing a roaring trade around here. It does make me feel uncomfortable but At least they are finally making some money. Our area, the South West never really got hit badly by the pandemic. Wiltshire has regularly seeing zero confirmed cases and deaths. So we will have to see how opening pubs really pans out! 

 

 

[maroondevo52]

Shops at the retail park beside me were mobbed today, last week the motorway between Glasgow and Edinburgh was as busy as it ever has been.

[tobyjugg2]

seems Farage still doesn't think lockdown rules apply to him after returning from the nation with the highest infection rate, and from a Rally with thousands of people who think social distancing is for democrats - into a UK pub as soon as they open despite his not self-isolating for the required 14 days ...

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nigel-farage-pub-reported-police-us-trump-rally-visit-a9601581.html

 

 

If Cummings and Jenrick and Johnson snr can get away with it .....

Edited July 5, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

Well,

O/H has been feeling poorly with upset stomach and dizzyness we think its a stomach bug.

Rang GP who said she needed a covid test (especially as she is NHS) even though none of us thought it was Covid

 

No worries

went straight online to see if we could book drive in or home tests

 

Local city drive in had some slots for that night, no others well into next week, so we thought - get it done

Went and did the test friday early evening - reasonably organised process

 

Within 24 hours (Sat) my test was back - negative

Rang them today as O/h (who was primary reason for tests) still heard nothing

 

They apparently know we/she went for the test but have no idea whats happened regarding o/h results

 

So what do we do and whats happening re results

 

Just wait and self isolate. They don't know if she will every get the results, whats happened to them and haven't suggested or booked another test

and when asked said no she shouldn't book another test

- just naff off and self isolate is the jist.

 

 

No proactive contact

No guarantee she will receive any update or anything at all despite chasing it and pointing out they are F****** up

 

 

Was reasonably impressed friday

Not now

 

 

 

 

Edited July 6, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

Free hospital parking to end for NHS staff in England, government says

 

Tories showing their true colours re the NHS staff a bit more openly

 

Tory policy:

Make the staff risking their lives pay extra 

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/jul/08/free-hospital-parking-to-end-for-nhs-staff-government-says

Edited July 8, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[honeybee13]

I really don't agree with this, TJ. What do your loved ones in the NHS think?

[tobyjugg2]

I dont think anyone should pay to park at a hospital, staff or visitors

 

 

If it actually was a nominal fee eg a quid to enter to actually cover costs, then I think few would complain

but it IS a tax and profit making mechanism and an absolute disgrace

 

Research finds 124 English NHS trusts made more than £226m in 2017-18 from car parks

 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/dec/27/hospitals-making-hundreds-of-millions-from-parking-charges

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/hospital-parking-charges-parkingeye-profits-rise-nhs-money-a8449671.html

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/12/10/rip-off-hospital-parking-charges-top-250m-year-relatives-charged/

 

 

 

 

more lies:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/11/23/tories-axe-hospital-car-parking-fees-millions/

 

 

Hospital parking giant condemned for ‘cashing in on the sick’ as profits surge

'What kind of nation allows this profiteering on hospitals that need parking?'

 

Edited July 8, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[honeybee13]

I agree, charging for hospital parking when people are ill or charging relatives for visiting them is really wrong.

 

Charges seem to vary a lot and in my experience hospital wards can give you a token or something else to reduce the charges.

 

Not all hospitals charge a fortune. My mother passed away in Weston super Mare hospital a few years ago when we were with her for the two days she was there. The lovely staff did tell us about a way to pay less in parking charges - still something, but the charges were quite low at the time.

[brassnecked]

Theydon't charge for parking in Welsh Hospitals, and they have park & Ride schemes at some for peak visiting hours.

[honeybee13]

Careful what you wish for, BN, we'll all be looking to move to Wales.

 

HB

[brassnecked]

LOL

[tobyjugg2]

 

COVID-19 Antibodies Can Disappear After 2-3 Months

 

so much for herd immunity

 

 

 

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200622/covid-19-antibodies-can-disappear-after-2-3-months

 

https://edition.cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-pandemic-07-06-20-intl/h_72de9291960bd14c6479ef417741320d

 

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/06/chinese-study-antibodies-covid-19-patients-fade-quickly

[brassnecked]

They continue to think like its Flu it might seem then.

[London1971]

21 minutes ago, tobyjugg2 said:

 

COVID-19 Antibodies Can Disappear After 2-3 Months

 

so much for herd immunity

 

 

 

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200622/covid-19-antibodies-can-disappear-after-2-3-months

 

https://edition.cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-pandemic-07-06-20-intl/h_72de9291960bd14c6479ef417741320d

 

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/06/chinese-study-antibodies-covid-19-patients-fade-quickly

Whilst not necessarily incorrect, the only way of truly knowing how long immunity lasts is by, over time looking for proven documented cases of re infection, on a large scale.

 

So far that has not happened , but the disease has only been around for six months. Within a year I’m sure there will be a lot more information than a few sensationalist pre print studies and some wild headlines.

 

It’s also worth noting that in general Corona Virus immunity starts to fade after a few years, I believe the estimate for the original SARS was 3 years.  As for the old ‘everyone gets catches the common cold argument’ there are literally hundreds of different one’s. 
 

Antibodies are not the only guide here, there is also innate T cell immunity, which is thought to be a possibility.
 

A few people will always become re infected, anyway , unfortunately I can testify to this having caught chicken pox a second time as an adult. Something , that brutal, I wouldn’t wish on my worst enemy.

[tobyjugg2]

32 minutes ago, London1971 said:

Whilst not necessarily incorrect, the only way of truly knowing how long immunity lasts is by, over time looking for proven documented cases of re infection, on a large scale.

 

 

 

 

Yes, but the evidence available so far is mounting and approaching compelling:

 

 

Most persons infected with SARS-CoV-2 display an antibody response between day 10 and day 21 after infection. Detection in mild cases can take longer time (four weeks or more) and in a small number of cases antibodies (i.e., IgM, IgG) are not detected at all (at least during the studies’ time scale). Based on the currently available data, the IgM and IgG antibodies to SARS-CoV-2 develop between 6–15 days post disease onset [239-244]. The median seroconversion time for total antibodies, IgM and then IgG were day-11, day-12 and day-14 post symptom onset, respectively. The presence of antibodies was detected in <40% among patients within 1 week from onset, and rapidly increased to 100% (total antibodies), 94.3% (IgM) and 79.8% (IgG) from day-15 after onset [245].  

 

 

The longevity of the antibody response is still unknown, but it is known that antibodies to other coronaviruses wane over time (range: 12 – 52 weeks from the onset of symptoms) and homologous re-infections have been shown [246].

 

SARS-CoV-2 IgM and IgG antibody levels may remain over the course of seven weeks [247] or at least in 80% of the cases until day 49 [69].

In comparison, 90% and 50% of SARS-CoV-1 infected patients have been shown to maintain IgG antibodies for two and three years respectively [248].

 

In addition, it could be important to detect nasal IgA antibodies, as the serum IgA antibodies were not raised, but IgA persisted in the nasal mucosa one year post-infection for seasonal coronavirus 229E [249].

 

https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/covid-19/latest-evidence/immune-responses

 

 

see also:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41577-020-0389-z

 

 

- Theres lots more. these are two of the more readable.

[London1971]

The only way we will truly know, is over the course of time. Sadly places like The US and Brazil where it’s been allowed to run rampant will tell us more of a story.

 

So many questions, about severity, different death rates around the world still need to be answered. 
 

The level of disagreements between scientists anxious to churn out studies to prove a hypothesis, or disprove someone else’s. Amplified by the media, doesn’t do anything to help this.

 

Only time will tell. So far we can say that around 5% have had the disease in the hardest hit European countries. If there is a second wave and many thousands catch it again, then we will know.

 

My personal belief is that immunity lasts 2 to 3 years, potential for less severe the second time. Meaning once a vaccine is developed it’s boosters every couple of years. It will be endemic for ever!

 

but I agree with you that talk of herd immunity is crazy stuff at this stage.