Hartley Wintney Motors - got them in small claims court - now a late 'offer'

[Anidog1]

I bought a car from this garage on 2 March.

Just 29 days later and after doing 1000 miles, I had to be towed off the M4.

 

I took out a 2 year warranty with WMS, through the dealership and that's the direction the dealership keeps pointing me in. 

I contacted WMS who confirmed I could get a mechanic to look at the car and then the mechanic report back to them with their findings, and WMS would decide if they would cover it. 

 

The mechanic has looked at it.

He put on a diagnostic machine and it produced 4 pages of faults.  

No oil.

No coolant.

Knackered gasket.

Air con disconnected.

Heater/fan director isn't connected -

can't demist windscreen as air only blows out the front vents!

Service light showing service needed/overdue.

Brake fluid low and dirty/contaminated.

 

As soon as I drove it out the garage the petrol light came on because they'd driven it to London the day before to do the MOT.

No screenwash.

Empty sandwich packet in footwell on passenger side.

 

Adam the salesman told me it's a used car.

Things can go wrong!

 

I now have a car that won't move stuck outside my house and I'm having to get taxis to work.

The garage want it in writing that I want a refund.

 

My 83 year old mother lent me the money for the car.

I just want my money back so I can replace it.

My mechanic said if the proper checks had been carried out then the faults could never have been overlooked.

Fortunately I work for solicitors but I need a car now! 

 

I have since emailed the dealership and they are investigating which can take up to 14 days.

I sent them a further email enquiring why it should take that long, as they are based in one office.

 

I also asked for confirmation that HWM would cover the cost of a hire car as I need to get to work.

I sent the same email twice in one day - no response.

 

I have today made contact with Adam who advises that he has given his report to Mr Fletcher but I need to understand he has other customers - to which I said I'm sure he has!

He then offered me a car.

I asked him how it would get to me.

He said I would need to go and pick it up. I

said I don't have a car!

 

He then asked which area I was in and decided it was not too far from him.

I then said, I need an automatic as I only have a licence for an automatic.

He said oh no, it's manual.

I said HENCE the reason why I would like confirmation from your Mr Fletcher.

He said he couldn't say what he would say.

He will speak to him and get back to me.

 

I have put a complaint in to the Motor Ombudsman

- apparently I have to wait 8 weeks for the dealership to give me their final response. 8 WEEKS!

 

I work for solicitors and they are giving the dealership until Monday to give me my refund and then we are going to issue a claim against them. I feel like I'm going 1 step forward - 2 steps back! 

 

If anyone is interested, I have attached the reports I provided to the dealership.AA Report.pdfDiagnostic Report.pdfMechanic Report.pdf

[dx100uk]

why are you faffin around with the useless warranty people no warranty is worth the paper it is written on

it does not remove nor overwrite your statutory consumer rights under the said act.

 

the car went wring within 30 days

you can get and demand a full no quibble refund from the retailer under CRA short term right to reject 

and you work for solicitors..and don't know that..

dx

[BankFodder]

Well if you work for a firm of solicitors you have a clear advantage. In my view, issuing a claim against them as quickly as possible is exactly the correct quest of action to take. Hopefully your employers have already advised you that the warranty is completely unnecessary and you should rely on your statutory rights.

If you are being assisted by your employers then as long as they are as good as their word and they issue the claim straightaway rather than getting into a protracted exchange of correspondence then I should rely on them but we would like to be kept up to date as to what happens. As you know, this is the second complaint we've had against this second-hand car dealer within a few days.

Doesn't look very good. I suggest that you write this up on trust pilot and on Google reviews as well.

 

I see they already have a rather disproportionate number of one star reviews on Google https://www.google.com/search?q=Hart+Motor+Co+Ltd&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAONgecSYyS3w8sc9YamESWtOXmOM4uIKzsgvd80rySypFPLhYoOyFLj4pbj10_UNS9KSzAwsizUYpHi5kAWkFJS4eEUcJsmJNnwp_68lxPkx9e_-ORolHoIlEou5X8jVzuJZxCrokVhUouCbX5JfpOCcr-BTkgIAWhq_LoIAAAA&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjKhe7lw7bhAhUEqxoKHRUnDaEQ6RMwC3oECAsQBA&biw=1920&bih=979#lrd=0x4874289cbffd65f1:0x9a7d1ee80ba31874,1,,,

[Anidog1]

dx100uk - in my defence, I am only a receptionist/secretary and the law is a minefield so don't be too hard on me!

 

And to confirm, I only dealt with the warranty company after breaking down initially.

 

It wasn't until the mechanic looked at the car once it was home that we found all the faults and knew that the warranty company would not even consider it.

 

I am now trying to deal direct with the dealership and I have sent them an email confirming that I have spoken to their salesman and he said he has given his report and therefore the investigation has been done.

 

Could they now please issue my refund as requested under CRA or a claim will be issued against them on Monday.

[dx100uk]

good work..

it would be better you sent them a letter before claim giving them 14 days by recorded delivery, stop using email!

state that if a full refund is not received within that time frame

a court claim WILL be issued without any further warning.

 

[Anidog1]

Hi, BankFodder,

I have done as you suggested and posted reviews on Google and Trust Pilot - it's very therapeutic!

 

However, just for your own reference, the link you have posted on your status is actually not the right garage!

 

I posted a bad review on there as it was showing the same address and I thought maybe they had changed their name but they responded to my review saying they are at one end of the building and HWM are at the other.

 

They don't sell cars, they just repair them!

And obviously do MOT's as someone complained about their dodgy MOT's, which begs the question, why did HWM drive my car to London to carry out an MOT when there's a garage next door?

 

Anyhoo, I was told by Adam the sales department that Mr Fletcher in claims would be writing to me either yesterday or today, but so far I haven't received anything. Quelle surprise!

[Anidog1]

So, for anyone following this thread, please find attached the response I have received today. As you can see, not only have I changed sex, moved house, but also bought a completely different car! If it wasn't so funny I would cry!

 

[dx100uk]

cant zoom that

can you pop it up as a PDF after redacting it please

read upload

[Anidog1]

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

We write further to your emails.

Hartley Wintney Motors UK Wintney Barn
Taplins Farm Lane
Hook, Hampshire

RG27 8SH

Email

[email protected] [email protected]

5 April 2019

1. You purchased the vehicle on 2 March 2019 and reported the fault on 2 April 2019 i.e. after 30 days. The 30 days starts when the consumer receives the vehicle and the initial 30 days does not apply when the breakdown happens rather when you report the fault. Therefore, it is not 29 days as you believe. March has a length of 31 days.

2. You are outside of the first 30 days of purchase. This means if your vehicle is found to be faulty thus breaching the Consumer Rights Act 2015, the law only entitles you to a repair. We cannot change that position, so rejection is not something you can pursue at this stage. Please do seek legal advice from Rowberrys Solicitors.

3. The vehicle at the time of sale was roadworthy and safe under the Road Traffic Act 1988. We carried out a Pre- Delivery inspection (PDI) before handover. This is a requirement under The Motor Ombudsman’s Motor Industry Codes of Practice.

4. You have covered astonishingly 1000 miles in just 29 days. MartCaniKs Ltd refer to one serious fault in their observation, that is no oil in engine. This has been specifically drawn to your attention in the Pre-Delivery inspection (PDI) report. The advisory was to change the engine oil as soon as possible. You have overlooked this matter, and this led to a head gasket failure. Legally, we are not liable under the CRA. We are prepared to assist you if you cooperate. As it stands, you are very uncooperative.

5. If you are unhappy with our response, you can register your complaint with The Motor Ombudsman:

   https://www.themotorombudsman.org/consumers/make-a-complaint

   The Motor Ombudsman is a certified Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR) provider, is fully impartial and listens to both sides to deliver consistently fair outcomes.

6. If you decide to continue with a court claim without any consideration to The Motor Ombudsman’s Alternative dispute resolution (ADR) decision, we reserve our right to a costs order against you. We refer you to the PRE- ACTION CONDUCT AND PROTOCOLS:

Yours faithfully,

Hartley Wintney Motors UK – Complaints

 

If proceedings are issued, the parties may be required by the court to provide evidence that ADR has been

considered. A party’s silence in response to an invitation to participate or a refusal to participate in ADR might be

considered unreasonable by the court and could lead to the court ordering that party to pay additional court costs

   

[dx100uk]

why are you posting your pers details on an anon forum please?

post above edited.

 

[Anidog1]

Because they're not my personal details! I am a female, I live in Berkshire and I bought a Corsa not a Fiat!

[dx100uk]

yes understood but we need also to be aware and protect whomever they are too sadly 

 

was the fault no oil?

[Anidog1]

They have tried to say this was pointed out in a PDI.

I never received a PDI.

I have requested a copy today but it's yet to arrive.

 

They didn't give me any service history whatsoever.

They're also saying my mechanic pointed out one fault.

He didn't, he mentioned several things i.e, aircon not being part of the FEAD belt.

Heater direction not connected, brake fluid low and dirty.

 

Surely these would have been noted in the PDI and attended to, along with the 4 pages of faults from the diagnostic machine.

My mechanic said if there was no oil, the engine would cease.

He said lack of water would cause the problem to the gasket.

He also said oil should not have completely disappeared in the time I had it.

And that 1000 miles isn't excessive as the average mileage for a year is 12,000. 

 

I also have a friend who works for a Vauxhall dealership and he showed it to a mechanic there and he said the car should never have been sold.

 

They are also saying I didn't notify them until 2 April so outside 30 days. 

Complete fabrication.

 

I emailed them the same night it broke down, through their website as they don't provide an actual email address.

I contacted Adam again on 1 April (so the next day) who text me telling me to go through the warranty company,

who in turn told me to go to a mechanic and let them have his findings.

 

As for their suggestion that they will assist me but I'm not being very co-operative,

all I've done is email the "claims dept" (which I'm pretty sure doesn't even exist),

and then chase the emails when they haven't had the courtesy to reply.

 

I'm not sure how that warrants being uncooperative. 

[dx100uk]

no neither can i

you have a clear case for REJECTION unfit for purpose under short term right to reject under CRA

you have PROOF you notified them.

end of the argument from their side me thinks.

 

 

[Anidog1]

I emailed them earlier requesting the PDI document today or I'll come and pick it up tomorrow.

They replied saying it was attached to my bill of sale, maybe I misplaced it.

And unfortunately their office staff cannot access the archives.

 

I've just spoken to the chap who the letter was originally addressed to.

He said there is no claims dept.

It's just the boss and his grunt as he put it!

 

They literally are a pair of charlatans.

I said Adam looked like he knew his way round a computer.

 

I'll come and pick it up tomorrow, when its busy.

They're also claiming they never received the on line email form I sent!

[dx100uk]

which is the pitfalls of using emails

writing only from now on!!

[buyer-beware]

You are being given misguided advice.

 

Within 30 days, you as the “consumer” can only demand a refund if you can PROVE that the fault was present at the point of sale.

 

http://www.lawgistics.co.uk/read-news/865#sthash.omv9rATy.dpbs

 

 

[dx100uk]

fit for purpose.

its obv not

[buyer-beware]

Proof it was faulty at the point of sale is required, otherwise one opportunity to repair. Stop giving incorrect misleading advice. 

[dx100uk]

no its failed within 30days..unfit for purpose.

buyer beware ..TINY..tough its now yours..has gone..

that's why CRA included the 30 days..

[buyer-beware]

You are giving completely one sided advice and ignoring the fundamental clause to the 30 day rejection rule. 

 

If the OP ended up in court following your bad advice, the first question the judge would request proof the fault was present at the point of sale, please show me a report from your expert confirming this. Otherwise case dismissed. 

 

Stop giving, one sided, unbalanced, incorrect advice. 

[dx100uk]

sorry ....but the old dealer dodge of

TINY..Tough Its Now Yours..has gone..

 

It failed within 30 days..there is nothing in CRA that states specifically it must be proved to have been present at point of sale.

the item has failed ..it is not fit for purpose.

until 6mts ownership has passed there is no requirement for the owner to prove anything.

its for the retailer to prove otherwise.

[buyer-beware]

I refer you back.

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/413743-your-rights-to-reject-under-the-consumer-rights-act-2015/

[dx100uk]

and?

 

still does not allow a dealer to operate a policy of TINY within 30days.

doesn't matter how many checks or mot's they do at the time or before it's purchased to establish to the best of their ability or 'want to bother' the vehicle is ok.

 

its failed within 30 days..and that failure could deem it not fit for purpose.

[buyer-beware]

Wear and tear is specifically excluded from CRA15. The CRA protects sellers equally against unreasonable  consumers.. Youve ignored the buyer has possibly driven this car to destruction.. Told to service immediately, written into the contract and then ignored, travelled 10k and then blames the retailer ....