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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
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Parking Eye ANPR PCN - M&U Phase One, Portishead (Lidl, Travelodge, Subway).


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Hello everyone -

 

I'm writing this in a state of disbelief.

Just received a PCN in the post.

 

My genuine shock is down to having had no inkling at the time that there were any parking restrictions.

My colleague and I both remember checking for notices but seeing none.

 

One question I have is whether anyone here is familiar with this car park - outside Wetherspoons' 'The Possett'.

 

I clearly need a reality check on what is in fact visible on the site.

The car was recorded as entering at 8pm and leaving at midnight.

 

Thanks!

 

1 Date of the infringement 1.5.2018

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 5.5.2018

 

 

3 Date received 10.5.2018

 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [y/n?] yes

 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? yes

 

6 Have you appealed? {y/n?] post up your appeal] no

 

7 Who is the parking company? ParkingEye

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] M&U Phase One, Portishead (Lidl, Travelodge, Subway).

 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. POPLA

Edited by dx100uk
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thread title updated

 

please scan up the NTK read upload PDF only please

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Just to add - I've looked on Google Street View and can see no sign of any notices at any of the entrances. This is the Travelodge, Lidl park, where we were parked, not the Waitrose part.

 

 

 

I have Google links, but I'm not allowed to post them yet. Just look for the Travelodge car parking area.

 

This is a pdf of my charge notice.

Notice to Keeper..pdf

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Ok tell us about the event so why were you there and where exactly did you park and which way in you used to access the place.

 

Their pictures are so rubbish as to be worthless as evidnec of parking. The site has 2 main entances and you can also drive between the 2 car parks without exiting back into Harbour rd. Now I see signs in the car park but they are facing inwards so cant be seen from the road and I cant see any camera poles either.

 

Now their claim is for overstaying in a car park and their only evidece of thsi si these rubbish pictures and it is common for their systems not to record correctly multiple visits to the same location or sometimes the cameras cover land they have no interest in so knowing exactly where the cameras were that these phots came from will help enormously.

 

If it is local to you go down and have a look at the sigane and whetehr PE operate in both car parks or just the one and note exactly where the cameras are on their poles. That may well give you a reason to get this knocked on the head and they certainly wont be able to prove you parked anywhere and the unus is upon them to show a cause not you to deny one

Edited by honeybee13
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Thank you very much for looking into the situation for me. I really appreciate it.

 

Just for convenience, I am uploading a bird's eye view of the relevant parking areas.

 

In answer to your first question, I was with a friend and we spent the entire time in the Possett Cup. It never occurred to either of us that receipts would be needed later, so unfortunately we probably didn't keep any.

 

To be perfectly honest, I can't remember which entrance/exit we used, but probably either of the two on Harbour Road. I think the car was parked near the southern boundary of the Lidl/Travelodge/Possett Cup car park.

 

Yes, I would like to be able to pinpoint the cameras, but don't live anywhere near there, so will have to wait probably a month or so to get back there and do a reccy.

 

Your point about the two adjoining car parks seems right to me, too. Unless they have cctv watching the entire car park, which I believe some do, it would be impossible to tell where the car had been.

 

[Note: In the Car Park Association guide, it states that the camera operators are obliged to produce their photographic evidence if asked. It also states that large, readable notices should be placed near the entrance. I don't see any.]

 

I am wonderring about strategy, now. Should I just keep quiet and wait to see how far they want to take this? At what point would it be sensible to give in?

 

Alternatively, if I submit an appeal in the next few days, should I ask them to provide their evidence? Still mulling this one!

 

Thanks again!

 

For entertainment only -

 

I ust went to the ParkingEye website and entered the details of my PCN. Then I clicked on the 'evidence' tab:

 

The first picture shows the wheels turned sharply, and no occupants. Where could that have been taken??

 

The second picture shows .... ?? Poorly illuminated Car park!

The two car parks - Waitrose and Lidl..PNG

evidence.PNG

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Please don't forget pic need to be in pdf

Upload readme

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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So now we have a new piece of information - I've traced the location of the 'entry' photograph, and it is the front of Lidl, main entrance. And because the wheels are turned to the right that indicates that I must have taken the first turning into the parking area. Where I actually parked is still a bit of a mystery.

 

 

As far the 'exit' picture, well, what does that tell anyone?? Would they be able to associate it with a particular camera?

 

 

 

My suspicion is that the cameras are properly located, to ensure that the car is going into and coming out of their exclusive patch. If that's true, that's another possible objection biting the dust. Still, there is another car park connected at the other end (Majestic Wines, etc.).

 

 

My current feeling is that I should just sit this one out and take a pure gamble. If they take out a court action I can just pay off whatever the court tells me to, rather than going to court. Any opinions?

 

OK, apologies -

 

 

for me, the jpg images look clear. I was thinking you meant just documents.

 

Here it is in PDF, although honestly I can't see any difference.

evidence.pdf

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Being able to zoom.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Sit on your hands!!!

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I would say that until you can arm yourself with better information and evidence that you do nothing.

Let Wetherspoons do what they can and it might not need further intervention.

The time set for appealing is rather odd because if you dntn appeal in that time you can still use independent arbitration so nothing lost.

 

Also, if their cameras do cover land they dont have any authorisation to manage it doesnt make sense for you to say that you must be doomed, it is for them to get everything right, not for you to prove them wrong at every point.

 

If you would rather hand over money that they dont deserve and havent earned that is up to you, we are here to offer advice and our genral advice is based on it all being either unfair or unlawful because the parking co's are too lazy or greedy to do it right.

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Well yes, that is all the way I feel about it. I'm sure everyone here feels that conflict, and I was just listing the pay-up route as an option. I'm here to take advice, and now I think it is clear. I'm not going to pay up, not only on principle, but also because the signage on the site is inadequate. I'll probably submit an appeal to ParkingEye to show that I did attempt a resolution.

 

I will be going down to Bristol (and thence Portishead if necessary) next month, so I will do a thorough photographic reccy of the area then.

 

I've just received information that rather scuppers my defiant stand, I suspect:

 

Reply from Wetherspoons:

 

"Unfortunately the car park is not owned by Wetherspoon, therefore it is completely out of our control.

 

However there have been sings up about the parking since before Christmas time, and then became active in the new year.

 

There are two entrances to the car park, in front of ‘Home Bargains’ & ‘Majestic Wines’ are one side and ‘Subway’ & ‘Lidl’ the other. The camera either side picks up the registration number of the cars as they enter and exit.

 

Since then we have had a tablet installed at the end of our bar so our customers can put their registration number in and it will up the parking limit from 2 hours to 5 hours, this has been in place since mid-march in an attempt to help out our customers to the best of our ability.

 

The only thing I can suggest is sending your receipts off with an appeal, however with the tablet in place, it is highly unlikely your appeal will go through.

 

Hope this has been helpful.

 

Kind Regards

 

 

Tom Coleman

Duty Manager

The Posset Cup

Mustad Way

Portishead

BS20 7DE"

 

Unless there are still no signs at the entry points, I don't see that I have much of a defence.

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Doesn't really change anything

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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No it's for you to understand why..

So why do you think that lessens your defence?

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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There is still no reason to pay them. There are many reasons why you need not have to pay them-you have just lost one but the others are still valid. Parking Eye have to dot a lot of I's and cross a lot of T's before they can expect to be paid.

They tend not to be able to do them all so there is no need to pay them.

 

Read some of the other threads in this section to see what objections others have used to avoid paying these crooks-not just Parking Eye threads.

In addition the signage at the car park is often enough to scupper their claim which is why we asked for it.

 

Don't worry about the month's delay, you will get a number of letters from PE and their unregulated debt collectors demanding more money than they have asked for initially-all totally unlawful of course.

 

Then when you have ignored all those they start on the begging letters reducing the amount.

It's quite fun watching all the mail coming in knowing that they re wasting their time and money when you have absolutely no intention of paying them whatever they offer.

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Because it tell me that the entire parking area is under the control of ParkingEye. It doesn't matter where I park. They still have me. If they have signs at the entrances, I'm stuffed.

 

Thank you! I was hoping for some more informative communication such as this!

 

Do you know what percentage of PE victims go to court, or any related statistics?

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there never was any doubt voiced that PE are not contracted for the whole car parks.

 

very few go anywhere if you go read up on like threads and understand how things work properly before you respond to them.

 

are their signs correct?

do they have planning permission for them and their cameras?

do they have a signed current contract with the land OWNER?

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Actually, I think there was significant doubt. Given that there there are two or three apparently discrete parking areas, it mattered whether they needed to determine which one{s) I used. It appears now that they don't.

 

are their signs correct? I'm still hanging on by my fingernails to this one.

do they have planning permission for them and their cameras? How likely that they do not?

do they have a signed current contract with the land OWNER? Ditto.

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Actually, I think there was significant doubt. Given that there there are two or three apparently discrete parking areas, it mattered whether they needed to determine which one{s) I used. It appears now that they don't.

 

are their signs correct? I'm still hanging on by my fingernails to this one.

do they have planning permission for them and their cameras? How likely that they do not?

do they have a signed current contract with the land OWNER? Ditto.

 

Their signs are frequently contradict each other thus unable to form a contract with the driver.

 

They quite often cannot be bothered to get Council planning permission [ it takes too long for them?] thus rendering their notices illegal [not unlawful-there is a big difference] and so negates any contract PE claim they have with all motorists at that site.

 

Sometimes they have no contract with the land owner at all while at others they are limited in what they can do [eg take motorists to Court]

 

They issue thousands of tickets per month yet take a fraction of those who don't pay to Court. You have to realise that they are crooks. They know they often don't have the correct permissions in place yet still fire off demands for money to motorists who PE know are not liable for the amounts claimed . Then they further harass the motorists by using unregulated debt collectors who claim even more money than stated on the notices in the car parks-totally unlawful.

 

They take motorists to Court and lose their case because there is something wrong with their signage or permissions for example. Do they correct those errors-very rarely. Do they continue to harass other motorists in the same boat as the motorist who won their case-every time.

 

They are a complete disgrace. Why don't they put matters right? Why should they when they make sufficient money from those who pay up. It takes time and money to rewrite signs with no guarantee that they have enough knowledge to make the new signs legally water tight. And permissions might not be granted so why ask when you can make money anyway.

 

The only good news about that is that it enables those caught by PE to be able to completely ignore them and not pay them a penny safe in the knowledge that they are unlikely to take you to Court and if they do , not only do you win against them but they also pay you for having the sheer effrontery of taking you to Court in the first place.

 

I hope I explained it better this time.

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Yes, that's excellent - thanks! :-)

 

One point that occurred to me is that they have a positive reason not to get the signs right. If they had adequate signage they would catch fewer drivers. There is method in their incompetence.

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of course. This is a massive complaint about the entire system. they deliberately make it difficult to comply otherwise they wouldnt earn a bean. Likewise their willingness to take the matter to court has forrced changes in Civil Procedures and will be the cause of more changes regarding sung people at the wrong address and so forth, a very popular tactic of the parking co's that isnt used by the rest of the world

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